Side by Side Club

[AYA117]

Came across this, Case hardened effect with cold gun blue, interesting!

 

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, JJsDad said:

Hi Marsh Man.

Never got your PM, but note you may have got info you required from A N Other. If you are still seeking dates drop me a PM albeit I have put a bunch of info up for AYA117.

Cheers. JJsDad

Many thanks for your time JJsDad , I have sent you another message , hopefully it will end up in the right place this time

[JJsDad]

15 minutes ago, marsh man said:

hopefully it will end up in the right place this time

Responded, more to follow concerning Norman sidelock.

[greenshank1]

I'm in. 

With my old Yeoman , on the peg on keepers day

 

[ips]

14 minutes ago, greenshank1 said:

I'm in. 

With my old Yeoman , on the peg on keepers day

 

Nice pic ?

[Mr.C]

Trying to find a diagram or even a coherent explanation of how interceptor sears work in a boxlock. I know what mine looks like and am interested to know. Can someone point me in the right direction? 

[JohnfromUK]

49 minutes ago, Mr.C said:

Trying to find a diagram or even a coherent explanation of how interceptor sears work in a boxlock. I know what mine looks like and am interested to know. Can someone point me in the right direction? 

I will have to have a look in some books - notably the 3 volume Crudgington and Baker series; I have seen at least one sketch, but cannot recall where.  From memory, it had a long curved interceptor, hinged at the top of the standing breach, and lifted from the rear.  It had a downwards 'catch' that caught the tumbler unless it was lifted.

[Mr.C]

In which case I'm sure there's nothing like that inside my gun but I'm still interested to learn. 

Thanks 

[matone]

11 hours ago, AYA117 said:

Came across this, Case hardened effect with cold gun blue, interesting!

 

Very interesting video! Thanks for posting.

[AYA117]

I have an AYA No.2 that would benefit from a complete makeover, would be interesting to see what results could be achieved.

[Old Boggy]

20 hours ago, farmer7 said:

My offering for the club. AYA No.2.

I started out at 8 years old with an AYA No.3 20 bore which I still have. I was given this by an elderly uncle who I used to watch as a youngster using it to shoot clays on the farm every year before the season opened.

I remember looking at the backs of the Countrysport magazine in the late 80's at the ads which usually featured an AYA of one model or other and wishing I could have an AYA No.2. The price then I remember was £800. 

It was a happy day 10 years ago getting a phonecall and to take my certificate with me! 

That advert, was it the one which featured Lord Lichfield singing AYAs praises ? Got some old Shooting Times from that time with the same advert so will dig them out and post it on here later, unless JJsDad beats me to it.

OB

[JJsDad]

Thomas Wild Hammer Guns

Some interesting information coming out of members posting photo`s of their guns. AYA117 recognised the twin of his Thomas Wild hammer gun from some photo`s put up by Marsh Man (see page 12).  After a bit of reading and checking of serial numbers it transpires both guns are only a few digits apart and both date from the mid 1930s. In the light that the hammerless ejector in both boxlock and sidelock form was allready fully developed by this period, it is interesting to note that Wilds were still evidently producing and selling hammer guns. Confirming King George Vs reported comment,   "That a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" !

 

[Feltwad]

14 hours ago, marsh man said:

THANKS for that islandgun , I will trawl through it to see if I can gleam any information .

                                                                                                          All the best M M 

Enclosed is a image of a family heir loom  sxs hammer gun by T Wild  cased with  a original copy of the bill and a old gun licence . bought in 1912 for £4-9s -6d

Feltwad

[farmer7]

1 hour ago, Old Boggy said:

That advert, was it the one which featured Lord Lichfield singing AYAs praises ? Got some old Shooting Times from that time with the same advert so will dig them out and post it on here later, unless JJsDad beats me to it.

OB

No I don' think so. It was a full page close up picture of the guns action/hand/forend area. Changed month about between the Yeoman,No.4,No.2, Countryman and possibly No.1. If you have any of them I'd love to see them. Or any other old AYA adverts!

Edited April 26, 2018 by farmer7

[JohnfromUK]

4 hours ago, Mr.C said:

Trying to find a diagram or even a coherent explanation of how interceptor sears work in a boxlock. I know what mine looks like and am interested to know. Can someone point me in the right direction? 

There are a number (on looking in a couple of books);

Firstly in Diggory Haddoke's "The British Boxlock Gun & Rifle", at page 65 there is an illustration of a Greener system (see also number 3 in the paragraph following).

Secondly in Crudgington and Baker's "The British Shotgun, Volume 3", there is a chapter on safeties, and at a quick look there are intercepting systems suited to boxlocks patented by;

1. Penn and Deeley, Patent 12324 of 1892
2. Thomas Perkes, Patent 6022 of 1894
3. Harry Greener, Patent 21622 of 1896
4. Robertson and Adams, Patent 1847 of 1897

Thirdly in Crudgington and Baker's "The British Shotgun, Volume 2", there is again a chapter on safeties, and at a quick look there are intercepting systems suited to boxlocks patented by;

1. James William Smallman, Patent 5405 of 1884
2. Edgar Harrison and Frederick Beesley, Patent 11382 of 1884
3. Anson and Deeley, Patent 907 of 1879
4. H & E Hammond, Patent 4541 of 1882
5. Webley, Patent 1860 of 1880
6. F Beesley, Patent 4089 of 1882

Fourthly from Geoffrey Boothroyd's "Sidelocks and Boxlocks"

1. William Anson's Patemt 4089 of 1882
2. A Greener 'variation' of this is referenced, but no details given.

None of these covers the one I vaguely remember!  Note that this list is only a very rough guide, as the drawings and photos (where present) are not always very clear, some particularly are shown without reference to the locks in detail (so may only apply to trigger plate types), and some may never have been actually made (these are patent applications).  I have also only spent (an enjoyable) short period looking at 4 or 5 books very shallowly.  I have a feeling that the one I remember may have been in one of Gough Thomas's books, but they are not well indexed, so it may be a challenge to find - even if my memory is correct.

Apart from the scale of the task, I don't believe it would be fair (or probably legal) to publish scans from the books here.

There is some information about how to identify some boxlock intercepting safeties on this page http://www.hallowellco.com/intercepting_sear.htm

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[JJsDad]

Benjamin Norman

This smart looking sidelock (see below) is owned by Marsh Man, see his thread on page 12.

Background:  Benjamin Norman started his business at Castle Street, Framlingham, Suffolk in c1878 where he remained until around the end of 1917. He then opened a branch at 10 Church Street, Woodbridge and his children obviously followed their fathers profession as the name changed to B Norman & sons. Sometime after WW2 the Framlingham premises closed as he is shown trading from the 10 Church St address only by 1955. The business appears to have closed finally in 1970. The few serial numbers recorded for Norman appear to date from around the turn of the twentieth century.

Serial Numbers:        Year c. 1906       Gun No: 821    Hammer ejector pat 9,348 use No: 187

                                     1896 to 1904      Gun no`s: 2132.        2141.        2162.

                                     1923                    Gun No: H12,350*   Note: This is a Hollaway number suggesting the gun was bought in as a barreled action or a gun in the white for subsequent finishing.

Limited info Marsh Man, but hopefully with the adresses & dates you may well be able to come up with a close date. You may well just find its older than you Wild hammer gun !

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by JJsDad

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, JJsDad said:

Benjamin Norman

This smart looking sidelock (see below) is owned by Marsh Man, see his thread on page 12.

Background:  Benjamin Norman started his business at Castle Street, Framlingham, Suffolk in c1878 where he remained until around the end of 1917. He then opened a branch at 10 Church Street, Woodbridge and his children obviously followed their fathers profession as the name changed to B Norman & sons. Sometime after WW2 the Framlingham premises closed as he is shown trading from the 10 Church St address only by 1955. The business appears to have closed finally in 1970. The few serial numbers recorded for Norman appear to date from around the turn of the twentieth century.

Serial Numbers:        Year c. 1906       Gun No: 821    Hammer ejector pat 9,348 use No: 187

                                     1896 to 1904      Gun no`s: 2132.        2141.        2162.

                                     1923                    Gun No: H12,350*   Note: This is a Hollaway number suggesting the gun was bought in as a barreled action or a gun in the white for subsequent finishing.

Limited info Marsh Man, but hopefully with the adresses & dates you may well be able to come up with a close date. You may well just find its older than you Wild hammer gun !

 

Many THANKS to JJsDad for his help and his time in finding out the information on two of my guns , very much appreciated.

I would also like to thank the person who set this thread ( club ) up , the interest shown have proved it has a good number of like minded followers , and the help and interest it has created is second to none. GOOD LUCK and long may it continue .

[AYA117]

I may have started the thread! But JJsDad was there right from the beginning, he contacted the moderators and many PMs went between us. I think we have both been very pleased with the response and the manner in which people have approached it, it is really everyone that has posted on here that ultimately turned a question into what is now Side by Side Club 

It would also be good to see some modern SBS  and hear about peoples experiences of them, also some non expensive, all should be welcome and indeed all are of interest! 

Long live Side by Side Club 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by AYA117

[Mr.C]

@JohnfromUK Thanks for that info. My gun dates from the early 1880's and bears the legend Anson and Deeley stamped into a number of components along with a patent number on the flats.Still haven't sussed who made have made it. Perhaps if I post some more pictures some knowledgeable people might take a look and give an opinion. It was supplied by Blissett and Son but I'd like to find out where it actually came from.

[JJsDad]

5 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

I may have started the thread! But JJsDad was there right from the beginning, he contacted the moderators and many PMs went between us. I think we have both been very pleased with the response and the manner in which people have approached it, it is really everyone that has posted on here that ultimately turned a question into what is now Side by Side Club 

What I personally find particularly pleasing over this (SBS Club) is that members have proudly shown off their various guns with information flowing back and forward without the thread turning into a slanging match or a load of derogatory or arrogant comments. We all share at the end of the day a common interest, and I find it quite `sad` when I see someone getting shouted down on other posts because he dares to offer a different opinion. Long may it continue

[JohnfromUK]

39 minutes ago, Mr.C said:

@JohnfromUK Thanks for that info. My gun dates from the early 1880's and bears the legend Anson and Deeley stamped into a number of components along with a patent number on the flats.Still haven't sussed who made have made it. Perhaps if I post some more pictures some knowledgeable people might take a look and give an opinion. It was supplied by Blissett and Son but I'd like to find out where it actually came from.

That is harder to tell, but Anson and Deeley both worked for Westley Richards, who did make guns for others, so that is a possibility.

[Salopian]

Are there any plans to organise a get together of SxS enthusiasts ?

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, Mr.C said:

Thanks for that info. My gun dates from the early 1880's and bears the legend Anson and Deeley stamped into a number of components along with a patent number on the flats.Still haven't sussed who made have made it. Perhaps if I post some more pictures some knowledgeable people might take a look and give an opinion. It was supplied by Blissett and Son but I'd like to find out where it actually came from.

If you go back a page or so, `Fil` is discussing a gun he rescued as a result of barrel damage complete with photo`s. It is a boxlock fitted with intercepting sears. A note to him might reveal the arrangement and method of operation on his gun.

Edited April 26, 2018 by JJsDad

[FatFreddysCat]

Anyone got a Geo Hinton SXS? I've had this oak and leather case in the man cave for about 30 years. It's well worn, the corners have been repaired in the past and the handle has been replaced with string but it does have the original key. Trade label has a faintly embossed date at the top which looks like 1915. Would fit 30" barrels. Free to the owner of a Geo Hinton gun. Pics below.

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by FatFreddysCat

[Feltwad]

6 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Benjamin Norman

This smart looking sidelock (see below) is owned by Marsh Man, see his thread on page 12.

Background:  Benjamin Norman started his business at Castle Street, Framlingham, Suffolk in c1878 where he remained until around the end of 1917. He then opened a branch at 10 Church Street, Woodbridge and his children obviously followed their fathers profession as the name changed to B Norman & sons. Sometime after WW2 the Framlingham premises closed as he is shown trading from the 10 Church St address only by 1955. The business appears to have closed finally in 1970. The few serial numbers recorded for Norman appear to date from around the turn of the twentieth century.

Serial Numbers:        Year c. 1906       Gun No: 821    Hammer ejector pat 9,348 use No: 187

                                     1896 to 1904      Gun no`s: 2132.        2141.        2162.

                                     1923                    Gun No: H12,350*   Note: This is a Hollaway number suggesting the gun was bought in as a barreled action or a gun in the white for subsequent finishing.

Limited info Marsh Man, but hopefully with the adresses & dates you may well be able to come up with a close date. You may well just find its older than you Wild hammer gun !

 

Enclosed is a image of Norman & Sons 1965 catalogue  which I presume is the same family

Feltwad

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Edited April 26, 2018 by Feltwad