Side by Side Club

[TIGHTCHOKE]

17 minutes ago, matone said:

No,because it`s a relatively new gun and proofed for Superior Steel.

Oh, okay I was talking about Buttons Gunmark Royale, what are you talking about?

[Weihrauch17]

On 05/07/2022 at 10:40, button said:

Be interested to know others views on this, it is described as a live pigeon gun but to me it looks like a pretty standard AYA no 2, when I think of live pigeon gun I think of but not always all but at least some of the following

1 Side clips

2 Heavier action

3 30" or longer barrels

4 Pistol grip

5 Tightly chocked

6 Beaver tail forend

7 Single trigger 

Don't misunderstand me, it looks lovely just not sure how it's been described as a pigeon gun

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/aya/side-by-side/12-gauge/2-sidelock-220531124226003

Agree apart from 6 & 7, I have a Boswell Pigeon gun and it has a splinter forend and double triggers as does every English Pigeon gun I have seen.

[Hector Vector]

This is my oldest SxS shotgun, dates from 1862, but it will be going back into use this coming season. It has been nitro proofed but I'm going to use brass cased black powder cartridges, just because I can and I like smoke and flames!

 

[kevin55]

1 hour ago, Hector Vector said:

This is my oldest SxS shotgun, dates from 1862, but it will be going back into use this coming season. It has been nitro proofed but I'm going to use brass cased black powder cartridges, just because I can and I like smoke and flames!

 

Very nice

It trumps my oldest by 10 years

 

[Dave at kelton]

4 hours ago, Hector Vector said:

This is my oldest SxS shotgun, dates from 1862, but it will be going back into use this coming season. It has been nitro proofed but I'm going to use brass cased black powder cartridges, just because I can and I like smoke and flames!

 

Charles Lancaster tip n tilt. Fabulous bit of engineering. Love mine

[Gerry78]

7 hours ago, Hector Vector said:

This is my oldest SxS shotgun, dates from 1862, but it will be going back into use this coming season. It has been nitro proofed but I'm going to use brass cased black powder cartridges, just because I can and I like smoke and flames!

 

Mans Gun 👆👆👆

[The_Engineer]

Well, after a few years of using my aya hammer and leaving a pristine Browning 725 grade 5 sat in the safe, I've taken the plunge. I traded the browning in and bought a Rizzini BR552 custom fitted and to my specification. Loving it thus far and I must say, the build quality for the price is outstanding.  You can customise pretty much everything with Rizzini: they are even making me a set of 20ga barrels and forend to fit on this 12ga 😳.

Edited August 8, 2022 by The_Engineer

[button]

Very nice👍

[JohnfromUK]

4 hours ago, The_Engineer said:

You can customise pretty much everything with Rizzini

I believe B (Batista?) Rizzini make for a number of the "English" makes. 

Certainly some William Powell guns Including Perdix, Phoenix, Viscount and Sovereign were and I think still are made by them although at one time some of their s/s in the earlier Heritage series (from the 'old' Powell business in Carr's Lane) were made by Arrietta.  Powell have always been (and to their credit) open about using other makers to source guns.

Some E.J. Churchill such as the Hercules are (in part anyway) by Rizzini. 

[The_Engineer]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I believe B (Batista?) Rizzini make for a number of the "English" makes. 

Certainly some William Powell guns Including Perdix, Phoenix, Viscount and Sovereign were and I think still are made by them although at one time some of their s/s in the earlier Heritage series (from the 'old' Powell business in Carr's Lane) were made by Arrietta.  Powell have always been (and to their credit) open about using other makers to source guns.

Some E.J. Churchill such as the Hercules are (in part anyway) by Rizzini. 

In the factory there are stocks and action blanks that were not for Rizzini models. 

The place is packed with incredible technology and craftsmen.

The stocks are made (read: finished) by Essevierre and the engraving is lazered then chased out by the team at Bottega giovanelli who take about 20hrs on each action, depending on sidelock or boxloxk etc.  There is a great write up of the factory tour you are invited to go on for free here:

 https://honesberieshooting.server-02.dehosting.co.uk/rizzini-factory-visit/

It's worth noting that even on base models you can go on the tour for free, but you WILL be tempted to have a stock made to measure and then fitted by arguably the best in the business, upgrade the wood and who could resist having your initials hidden in the gun engraving for the equivalent of £50?!

Edited August 8, 2022 by The_Engineer
Typo

[enfieldspares]

Collected this last week, if weather fine I will try it today Wednesday. Any guesses what it is and why this week might have a connection to what it is? The gun is marked with the number 9B/2592 (no searching on the internet for that as it'd be too easy) as well as its actual serial number.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by enfieldspares

[bruno22rf]

On 18/07/2022 at 07:57, Hector Vector said:

This is my oldest SxS shotgun, dates from 1862, but it will be going back into use this coming season. It has been nitro proofed but I'm going to use brass cased black powder cartridges, just because I can and I like smoke and flames!

 

You cannot get away with a single picture of a piece like that.

[JohnfromUK]

5 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Collected this last week, if weather fine I will try it today Wednesday. Any guesses what it is and why this week might have a connection to what it is? The gun is marked with the number 9B/2592 (no searching on the internet for that as it'd be too easy) as well as its actual serial number

 

Complete guess, but some 'reasons' for the guess given.

Is it one of the W&C Scott products made under the Holland and Holland corporate umbrella (Chatsworth, Kinmount, Bowood etc. were some of the names)?

Reasons;

• The condition looks excellent and therefore I think it is (relatively) recent
• Despite being plain, the wood (half pistol grip, decent chequering, flats behind action) looks well done
• The hardening colour looks recent and unworn
• The safely doesn't have the prominent 'blister' AyA use
• The half pistol plus fairly generous metal behind fences suggest it may be a 2 3/4 or 3" chambered 'slighly heavier duty' model compared to usual (older) English 2 1/2".

Just my guesses and not read Bruno's post yet!  (Edit: I now see it is unrelated!)

Further edit; I have now Googled - but didn't before writing above.

Edited August 17, 2022 by JohnfromUK

[Old Boggy]

6 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Collected this last week, if weather fine I will try it today Wednesday. Any guesses what it is and why this week might have a connection to what it is? The gun is marked with the number 9B/2592 (no searching on the internet for that as it'd be too easy) as well as its actual serial number.

 

 

It looks very similar to a BSA gun that a pal of mine had many years ago that I used to borrow occasionally. Double trigger, semi pistol grip and plain action. I’m sure that it was a non ejector, but no idea whatsoever about the relevance of the number.

[enfieldspares]

BSA for the RAF to train air gunners and fighter pilots in WW2 learning to lead a target. This is one of those that BSA then re-acquired and refurbished, so it is said, to re-sell in about 1951. Which is why it looks newish. Ejector, 2 1/2" chambers choked half and half in both barrels (as they all were). The number is the Air Ministry (or somesuch) stores or "catalogue" number.  RAF issue binoculars will be found with a 6E/293 stores or "catalogue" number. 9B being says this website Armanent Ground Instructional Equipment.

https://stephentaylorhistorian.com/2018/04/18/ww2-aircraft-parts-prefix-codes/

Edited August 18, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Old farrier]

28 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

BSA for the RAF to train air gunners and fighter pilots in WW2 learning to lead a target. This is one of those that BSA then re-acquired and refurbished, so it is said, to re-sell in about 1951. Which is why it looks newish. Ejector, 2 1/2" chambers choked half and half in both barrels (as they all were). The number is the Air Ministry (or somesuch) stores or "catalogue" number.  RAF issue binoculars will be found with a 6E/293 stores or "catalogue" number. 9B being says this website Armanent Ground Instructional Equipment.

https://stephentaylorhistorian.com/2018/04/18/ww2-aircraft-parts-prefix-codes/

Very nice piece of history 👍

any ideas who it was issued to or which particular training group?

[London Best]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

BSA for the RAF to train air gunners and fighter pilots in WW2 learning to lead a target. This is one of those that BSA then re-acquired and refurbished, so it is said, to re-sell in about 1951. Which is why it looks newish. Ejector, 2 1/2" chambers choked half and half in both barrels (as they all were). The number is the Air Ministry (or somesuch) stores or "catalogue" number.  RAF issue binoculars will be found with a 6E/293 stores or "catalogue" number. 9B being says this website Armanent Ground Instructional Equipment.

https://stephentaylorhistorian.com/2018/04/18/ww2-aircraft-parts-prefix-codes/

My Father was a rear gunner on Lancasters. 
He remembered the BSA’s and said shooting was all they did all day when not attending other training. It didn’t do him much good because all he could hit twenty years later was bolting rabbits, birds were safe!

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

BSA for the RAF to train air gunners and fighter pilots in WW2 learning to lead a target. This is one of those that BSA then re-acquired and refurbished, so it is said, to re-sell in about 1951. Which is why it looks newish. Ejector, 2 1/2" chambers choked half and half in both barrels (as they all were). The number is the Air Ministry (or somesuch) stores or "catalogue" number.  RAF issue binoculars will be found with a 6E/293 stores or "catalogue" number. 9B being says this website Armanent Ground Instructional Equipment.

https://stephentaylorhistorian.com/2018/04/18/ww2-aircraft-parts-prefix-codes/

Correct term was Section (9B) and Ref (erence number 2592)

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

My Father was a rear gunner on Lancasters. 
He remembered the BSA’s and said shooting was all they did all day when not attending other training. It didn’t do him much good because all he could hit twenty years later was bolting rabbits, birds were safe!

I wonder?

Three of us tried it today and all of us found it shot "flat" that is to say the pattern wasn't "high" as on, say, a side by side game gun.

Such that we had no problems on crossing birds either incoming or going away but we all struggled on what you would class as a driven bird.

On Sportrap (I shot it on four stands only for twenty birds) where I'd normally get a modest 13 out of the 20 (on four stands) with an "Essex" (Spanish) Ejector SBS choked quarter and half quarter) I only managed 9 out of 20 birds.

Failing to connect with only one in four, if that, of those driven birds whereas with the AYA I'd break all and break them well. The other two gentlmen that tried it...bit very good shots...also could only manage 1 in 4 of the driven bird.

Edited August 18, 2022 by enfieldspares

[London Best]

 No wonder the war lasted so long!

Edited August 18, 2022 by London Best

[Townie]

On 08/08/2022 at 11:41, The_Engineer said:

Well, after a few years of using my aya hammer and leaving a pristine Browning 725 grade 5 sat in the safe, I've taken the plunge. I traded the browning in and bought a Rizzini BR552 custom fitted and to my specification. Loving it thus far and I must say, the build quality for the price is outstanding.  You can customise pretty much everything with Rizzini: they are even making me a set of 20ga barrels and forend to fit on this 12ga 😳.

I bought the BR550 last year and felt slightly guilty about ignoring all the English guns I could have had for the same money. Delighted to say I've got on better with it than any traditional s/s I've had. Makes my Silver Pigeon feel like a fence post too.

[Townie]

Played with an 1880s Purdey in a gunshop yesterday. Gorgeous wood, immaculate bores, no obvious wear on anything. All for £4000 and something. Thank God it was nowhere near fitting me, otherwise the credit card may have appeared.

How cheap can these gorgeous guns become?

[Stonepark]

48 minutes ago, Townie said:

Played with an 1880s Purdey in a gunshop yesterday. Gorgeous wood, immaculate bores, no obvious wear on anything. All for £4000 and something. Thank God it was nowhere near fitting me, otherwise the credit card may have appeared.

How cheap can these gorgeous guns become?

I am sure for under £1k you could have a new stock made for it to fit you.  😜

They are becoming cheaper as subsequent generations value practicality (multi chokes, 3 inch chambers, etc) and modern computerised manufacturing ensures a repeatable high standard of good finish overall almost as good as hand finishing in the old days when properly done and in 1\3 of the time.

They will become cheaper still if\when steel only kicks in as a lot will be relegated to collectors pieces in a population who no longer collect guns.

[Townie]

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

I am sure for under £1k you could have a new stock made for it to fit you.  😜

They are becoming cheaper as subsequent generations value practicality (multi chokes, 3 inch chambers, etc) and modern computerised manufacturing ensures a repeatable high standard of good finish overall almost as good as hand finishing in the old days when properly done and in 1\3 of the time.

They will become cheaper still if\when steel only kicks in as a lot will be relegated to collectors pieces in a population who no longer collect guns.

For about 5 seconds I actually did decide that the cost of refitting and a lifetime of bismuth wasn't that much to use such a beautiful thing, but I should be grateful that I thought there were more important (not better) things to spend £5k on. 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

I am sure for under £1k you could have a new stock made for it to fit you

In your dreams, surely?

Under eight grand may be nearer the mark, unless you go to the makers!