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AYA117

Side by Side Club

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    1 hour ago, alan123shooting said:

    This one is cased and still knocks the pheasants down on high days and holidays with my black powder loads

    Is it a pinfire conversion ?

     

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    Westley's did build some guns that looked like a pin fire conversion but were built as a center fire . I suspect that they used the same action . There is a dovetailed plate that fits into the action face and the strikers work on a cam principle ,  with what to all intent ,  are pinfire hammers .

    Some guns of this period were also made to be duel ignition  so could be either pin or center fire , I suspect that some makes doubted that this new fangled center fire would catch on so they hedged their bets .

    A usual tell tail that it has been converted is there is a "filler" on the top of the barrel where the recess for the pin has been . As well the way the extractors have been retrospectively fitted , but that is a harder one to spot as there were numerous methods of extraction in the early days .

     

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    8 hours ago, Gunman said:

    Westley's did build some guns that looked like a pin fire conversion but were built as a center fire . I suspect that they used the same action . There is a dovetailed plate that fits into the action face and the strikers work on a cam principle ,  with what to all intent ,  are pinfire hammers .

    Some guns of this period were also made to be duel ignition  so could be either pin or center fire , I suspect that some makes doubted that this new fangled center fire would catch on so they hedged their bets .

    A usual tell tail that it has been converted is there is a "filler" on the top of the barrel where the recess for the pin has been . As well the way the extractors have been retrospectively fitted , but that is a harder one to spot as there were numerous methods of extraction in the early days .

     

    Yes,mine had p/f style hammers but had been built as c/f .Works of art really.

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    13 hours ago, Retsdon said:

    There are some absolutely beautiful guns on this thread. Many thanks to the owners for posting!

    Do you have some to add to the collection?

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    Having handled some thousands of guns in my time  , I have become a little jaded in my appreciation's of what and what isn't a good looking gun . That said there are very few O/U's that come close to some of late 19C hammer guns . Yes the modern gun is "more reliable " but give them 90 years of shooting and then we will see .Having spent the majority of my working life on side by sides I do have a slight   prejudiced that on the whole they had more style and were a much nicer gun to shoot .But maybe thats just Me

     

     

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    39 minutes ago, Gunman said:

    on the whole they had more style and were a much nicer gun to shoot .But maybe thats just Me

    Judging by the response to this thread, you are not alone :good:

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    Would like to thank `figgy` for posting the information earlier this year concerning Thomas Wild and family. I have a T Wild. side by side hammer gun with lovely engraving circa 1896. It is Nitro proofed but has short, 2 1/2" chambers. Used it for two seasons pheasant shooting and it is a true thing of beauty. :) 

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    On 17/11/2018 at 22:33, AYA117 said:

    Do you have some to add to the collection?

    Sadly not. My location and personal circumstances mean I don't own any kind of gun at all these days  - my interest now is purely aesthetic and nostalgic. But back in the day I always shot with side by sides, and whilst still a young man even spent a short time in an action filing shop learning a bit about how they work along with some elementary gunsmithing skills.

     So not a member of the club - sigh, merely an avid observer from the public gallery!!

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    Just a heads up to fellow s/s users,I notice that Eley have brought out s/s friendly loadings of both Impax & Grand Prix in true 21/2" cases with shorter brass to help ejection.

    Good on them !

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    I haven't tried Eley in a while, but they went through a phase when they seemed to be higher in recoil than other similar load cartridges.  I assume this was due to a slightly more aggressive powder, but I don't know.  I have mainly used Hull in recent times (Comp X 21g for clays and Imperial Game 26g or 28g for game, both in fibre wad)

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    Agreed,found similar myself and told them so ! Looks like someone has done something to rectify the problem which is to be commended .

    Always liked Impax and shall have to get hold of this new version.

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    3 hours ago, matone said:

    Just a heads up to fellow s/s users,I notice that Eley have brought out s/s friendly loadings of both Impax & Grand Prix in true 21/2" cases with shorter brass to help ejection.

    Good on them !

    Weren't they always thus???

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    20 minutes ago, Penelope said:

    Weren't they always thus???

    No,been 67mm,high brass and quite punchy of late.

    Edited by matone

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    I have always been happy to use 67 (or 67.5) mm in my 2 1/2" chambered guns.  I'm told that the chambers are actually usually 2 5/8" (66.68 mm) and I have been advised by 2 well known gunmakers this is fine.  Never had any problems with any visible effect on the end of the crimp on spent cases.  70 mm is not OK and I try not to have them around despite having several 2 3/4" chambered guns. 

    The major issue I had with Eley is that (like for like) they seemed to have a higher recoil for no noticeable gain in performance.  I always assumed that they had jumped on the bandwagon of increasing velocity, but never did any study as I simply swapped to another make (Hull).  Before they introduced the Hull Imperial range I used to use Hull's Three Crowns - which are still available - but in paper case only now (I think they used to be plastic or paper?)

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    3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

    I have always been happy to use 67 (or 67.5) mm in my 2 1/2" chambered guns.  I'm told that the chambers are actually usually 2 5/8" (66.68 mm) and I have been advised by 2 well known gunmakers this is fine.  Never had any problems with any visible effect on the end of the crimp on spent cases.  70 mm is not OK and I try not to have them around despite having several 2 3/4" chambered guns. 

    The major issue I had with Eley is that (like for like) they seemed to have a higher recoil for no noticeable gain in performance.  I always assumed that they had jumped on the bandwagon of increasing velocity, but never did any study as I simply swapped to another make (Hull).  Before they introduced the Hull Imperial range I used to use Hull's Three Crowns - which are still available - but in paper case only now (I think they used to be plastic or paper?)

    Yep. They've not been the cartridge that they were named for for quite some time. Also went to Hull but they then stopped doing the 7s in their High Pheasant so moved yet again to Gamebore. I'm not messing about any more now so have stocked up with two of their products and the one relative to this post is the Super Game High Bird which for my money and in my gun is what the original Grand Prix. Was designed to be.

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    4 hours ago, wymberley said:

    Yep. They've not been the cartridge that they were named for for quite some time. Also went to Hull but they then stopped doing the 7s in their High Pheasant so moved yet again to Gamebore. I'm not messing about any more now so have stocked up with two of their products and the one relative to this post is the Super Game High Bird which for my money and in my gun is what the original Grand Prix. Was designed to be.

    Just for you,the new Trad GP is available in 30g of No7 too! You,see they do listen...lol.

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    1 hour ago, matone said:

    Just for you,the new Trad GP is available in 30g of No7 too! You,see they do listen...lol.

    It's more likely I feel that they saw the opposition grabbing the sales of what they no longer produced. Mind you, on their website they also do a fibre Superb in 7s which having tried  the plastic version I quite took a liking to. Teach me to believe everything that I read. Being happy with my lot, I for one won't be changing back.

    The next thing you know, they'll be doing their pigeon loads in 6&1/2s

    Edited by wymberley

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    Hi I have enjoyed reading through the side by side club and as I have just discovered how to add photographs here's some pictures of mine top is a Parker reproduction by Winchester then a boxlock non ejector Damascus barrelled Frederick Williams third down is a Cogswell and Harrison Konor 3 inch ejector made by Webley and Scott in the 1950s and bottom my old AYA yeoman that started it all in 1972

    image.jpeg

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    Thanks Matone I took in an AYA no 4 deluxe to sell and was shown the Frederick Williams. It balanced well and Graham Mackinlay offered to do it up for me ,rebrown  the barrels and sort the gun up in trade for my gun plus a bit for reoiling the stock .

    Geoffrey Boothroyd wrote a piece on the gun in the millennium issue of the shooting times after I had bought it as he was looking for information on Frederick Williams guns at that time. Apparently F. Williams had an outlet in the Far East ,Hong Kong I think ,as and many of his guns were exported there. I dated it to 1917 so it is over 100 years old now and  is still used regularly for rough shooting choked 1/4 and full it's a good gun for walked up game and wildfowling inland

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    Some craking guns above i always thought that sbs were all quite delicate but i picked up an early williams hell of a chunky gun

    Edited by Ozz

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    Trying to pick your brains with this one.

    In the mid seventies I bought a Holland & Holland boxlock non ejector.

    There was no engraving, just the Holland & Holland logo.

    It was choked Cylinder and Full and I was told it was what was known as a  ' keepers gun .

    The gun shot loose twice and I got fed up with it and sold it on.

    Out of curiosity I searched on the net and couldn't find any record of such a gun.

    Any ideas?

     

     

     

     

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