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AYA117

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    Keep searching places you would not expect to find them Mr.C - I saw a LJ lwt like mine up for auction a couple of years back with a reserve of just under £900 and it was out of proof - paid less than a quarter of that for mine and the pictures really do not do her justice - Damascus is very high quality. matone - sunken Rib is a pain because when you shoulder the Gun the reflection of one barrel can be seen on the other and gives the impression of 3 sight lines!

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    21 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

    One of my sleepers from the Cabinet, a Lincoln Jeffries "The Lightweight" 12g - it really is light, built around 1890 with Damascus Barrels (both pitted but well within proof), paid pennies for her about 2 years ago - proof that it's always worth searching shops that sell mainly modern Guns with the barrels the wrong way up!

    jeffrey.jpg

    jeffrey 2.jpg

    jeffrey 3.jpg

    Whats the name on the lock ?

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    54 minutes ago, Gunman said:

    Whats the name on the lock ?

    Could be interesting. In some pain here and after tryng to read it with a glass yesterday I couldn't type. I got Chas M/Haschwitz Jun (io)r

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    23 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

    One of my sleepers from the Cabinet, a Lincoln Jeffries "The Lightweight" 12g - it really is light, built around 1890 with Damascus Barrels (both pitted but well within proof), paid pennies for her about 2 years ago - proof that it's always worth searching shops that sell mainly modern Guns with the barrels the wrong way up!

    jeffrey.jpg

    jeffrey 2.jpg

    jeffrey 3.jpg

     

    43 minutes ago, wymberley said:

    Could be interesting. In some pain here and after tryng to read it with a glass yesterday I couldn't type. I got Chas M/Haschwitz Jun (io)r

    Wondering why it was described as a Lincoln Jeffries .

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    10 minutes ago, Gunman said:

     

    Wondering why it was described as a Lincoln Jeffries .

    Perhaps we'll get a better idea if Bruno kindly tells us what is stamped on the barrels.

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    Happy to oblige chaps - Rib says "Lincoln Jeffries / The Lightweight/ 12 Bore. Along the barrels it says - Winner of the Gold Medal London 1870 & Awarded first prize Melbourne 1889 on the right tube, on the left it says - Winner of The Field 30 Guinea Prize for choke bores London 1879. Both action and barrels carry the same number 1811 so the tubes have not been retro fitted to a later action - name on action plate is Chas Maschwitz Junr. I think he had something to do with inventing a Stamp Box and was bit of a businessman with fingers in varied Pies.

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    6 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

    Happy to oblige chaps - Rib says "Lincoln Jeffries / The Lightweight/ 12 Bore. Along the barrels it says - Winner of the Gold Medal London 1870 & Awarded first prize Melbourne 1889 on the right tube, on the left it says - Winner of The Field 30 Guinea Prize for choke bores London 1879. Both action and barrels carry the same number 1811 so the tubes have not been retro fitted to a later action - name on action plate is Chas Maschwitz Junr. I think he had something to do with inventing a Stamp Box and was bit of a businessman with fingers in varied Pies.

    What is the weight?  I have a couple of lightweights, a Darne at a whisker under 6 lbs and a Powell at 6 lbs 4 oz.  The Darne kicks like a mule, but the Powell is OK with suitable loads. 

    My godfather (and shooting mentor) used 'featherweight' Purdeys at 6 lbs dead on and would happily shoot big days with them (he had a set of three) shooting 1 1/16 oz - or in later days always Winchester GB 1 oz.  He was a very fine shot and had been taught by Percy Stanbury.

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    That is very light.  I think you are right on the 'Not for Ball' - it was certainly about then.  I had (once) an 1882 Joseph Lang marked like that.

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    Hi , W.H.Pollard 12 Bore S.L.E, J Kirk.12 Bore S.L.N/e, Army & Navy 12 bore B.L.Ejector, S Entwistle 12 bore 3" N.E,, C&H 20 Bore B.L.N.E, Avant Tout 12 bore B.L.E, Pending. CAN,T SEEM TO GET TO SBS CLUB, CAN THIS BE MOVED THERE PLEASE.

    IMG_3921.JPG

    Edited by guzzicat

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    On 30/11/2018 at 23:05, AYA117 said:

    Keep the above and avoid a gun with known problems would be good advice     

    This, all day long.

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    26 minutes ago, demonwolf444 said:

    Another point of interest on your gun guzzi is the checkering on the forend tip - not seen that before - nice touch!

    Yes I am very fond of it, will both be out on Saturday.

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    12 minutes ago, guzzicat said:

    Yes I am very fond of it, will both be out on Saturday.

    I would appear  the gun has been restocked at some time in the last 50 years .

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    1 hour ago, Gunman said:

    I would appear  the gun has been restocked at some time in the last 50 years .

    Just out of interest how can you tell?  If I'm looking at a secondhand gun and I'm told it has been restocked, is that a good thing from a buyers point of view? I'm guessing a gunsmith would try to replace with a piece of wood at least (if not better) quality than the original if possible. Certainly looks excellent in the case of guzzicats example.

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    2 hours ago, MrPhantom said:

    Just out of interest how can you tell?  If I'm looking at a secondhand gun and I'm told it has been restocked, is that a good thing from a buyers point of view? I'm guessing a gunsmith would try to replace with a piece of wood at least (if not better) quality than the original if possible. Certainly looks excellent in the case of guzzicats example.

    Long experience is the simple answer but a few pointers --

    1 over all condition .  It looks too good for a gun of its age to be original 

    2 the wood is not below the metal work and the lack of ware of the drop points .

    3 the hand/ pistol grip checkering is much sharper than that of the forend  --- It really should have been re cut at the same time .

    4 the trigger guard looks as if it has been knocked and looks to be very close to the back trigger tip.

    As to wood quality in days past when guns like this were not worth much , it was not uncommon to use cheap / basic wood . I have seen some nice guns "ruined " having been re stocked with very plain wood , but if thats all the customer wanted to pay then that was that .

    The wood on the gun at present is quite nice and I would have no complaints . It is I an shore certainly as good as the original if not better. These days good wood is a selling point .

    A shop would not be able to afford to stock this today and even 20 years ago it would have been questionable whether it was feasible to stock it and sell it on at a profit , so I assume that it was the then owner who had it done .

    A restocked gun is , providing it is a decent job and the wood is suitable is not a bad thing by any means . I do not think it devalues a gun in any . It may have had extreme cast or been very short which would have made  it less sellable , but we never know .

     

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    32 minutes ago, Gunman said:

     

    Long experience is the simple answer but a few pointers --

    1 over all condition .  It looks too good for a gun of its age to be original 

    2 the wood is not below the metal work and the lack of ware of the drop points .

    3 the hand/ pistol grip checkering is much sharper than that of the forend  --- It really should have been re cut at the same time .

    4 the trigger guard looks as if it has been knocked and looks to be very close to the back trigger tip.

    As to wood quality in days past when guns like this were not worth much , it was not uncommon to use cheap / basic wood . I have seen some nice guns "ruined " having been re stocked with very plain wood , but if thats all the customer wanted to pay then that was that .

    The wood on the gun at present is quite nice and I would have no complaints . It is I an shore certainly as good as the original if not better. These days good wood is a selling point .

    A shop would not be able to afford to stock this today and even 20 years ago it would have been questionable whether it was feasible to stock it and sell it on at a profit , so I assume that it was the then owner who had it done .

    A restocked gun is , providing it is a decent job and the wood is suitable is not a bad thing by any means . I do not think it devalues a gun in any . It may have had extreme cast or been very short which would have made  it less sellable , but we never know .

     

    Thanks for explaining, interesting reading :good:

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    56 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

     

    Not quite sure what he is talking about when he talks about height of the comb  . AyA's follow fairly standard " English" stock dimensions and his mounting so low on the shoulder is a little odd to me , may be alright for clays but for game I would imagine he hits his nose holding so close in . But thats just my opinion .

    Edited by Gunman

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    21 minutes ago, Gunman said:

    Not quite sure what he is talking about when he talks about height of the comb  . AyA's follow fairly standard " English" stock dimensions and his mounting so low on the shoulder is a little odd to me , may be alright for clays but for game I would imagine he hits his nose holding so close in . But thats just my opinion .

    I think the technical term is, "cack-handed".

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    OMG - what a faux pas I have been guilty of - I've been using my SxS during weekdays as well as weekends never realising that the gun was intended for the odd "fun" outing (like, apparently, my Porsche) - is this guy broken? Why does he mount the gun half way down his chest?

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    46 minutes ago, Gunman said:

    AyA's follow fairly standard " English" stock dimensions

    My two AyA 12's are near enough identical to the English s/s I have (both of which are very 'conventional').  The only one formally fitted was the AyA No 1 which was fitted by a traditional fitter & gunsmith - and from memory the drop at the cheek wasn't altered (1 3/8"), but the cast and length were slightly altered (increased and decreased respectively).  I have been very pleased with it.

    I also don't think the gun he is using to break clays at the start of the video is a No 2.  The reason is that the gun he is using has a concealed 3rd bite - which I don't think a No 2 has.  I think model 53 (and model 56) may have the third bite, but they also have sideclips - and it isn't the right engraving for a model 56 which is a much more expensive model.

    His gun mount looks low to me as well, but I am not an expert.  The heel is well below the shoulder, but people do have different styles.

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    1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

    I also don't think the gun he is using to break clays at the start of the video is a No 2.

    Well spotted sir, you are quite right it is a model 117

     

     

    There is more, things we all need to know :lol:    

     

    Edited by AYA117

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