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21 minutes ago, Gunman said:

I question the date you have mentioned. Top lever guns did not appear until the mid 1870's .What are the proof marks ?

The proof marks are Birmingham 1855 - 1868

6 minutes ago, London Best said:

Also, if I am seeing the pictures correctly, the gun appears to have rebounding locks?

You are correct. I believe the rebounding locks came in around 1867.

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I have a Dickson, verified as 1865, which is, obviously, non-rebounding. 
I also have a Ward which has rebounding locks and carries pre-1875 proof marks. 
Unless your gun has any later NITRO proof marks it is silly to be using modern cartridges, 21 gram or not. What makes you think 21 gram cartridges operate at only black powder pressures?
Edit: the Dickson was being used with exactly those cartridges before I bought it. I only use black powder.......it’s your decision, your neck.

Edited by London Best
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17 minutes ago, London Best said:

I have a Dickson, verified as 1865, which is, obviously, non-rebounding. 
I also have a Ward which has rebounding locks and carries pre-1875 proof marks. 
Unless your gun has any later NITRO proof marks it is silly to be using modern cartridges, 21 gram or not. What makes you think 21 gram cartridges operate at only black powder pressures?
Edit: the Dickson was being used with exactly those cartridges before I bought it. I only use black powder.......it’s your decision, your neck.

It also has later Nitro proof marks. What makes me think using modern carts is OK? That would be the Nitro proof marks

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4 minutes ago, paulinlincs said:

It also has later Nitro proof marks. What makes me think using modern carts is OK? That would be the Nitro proof marks

Is the correct answer. 
Both my old hammer guns are only black powder proof. Great fun but bloody expensive. 
I only ever use SxS guns. Enjoy your hammer gun.

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9 minutes ago, London Best said:

Is the correct answer. 
Both my old hammer guns are only black powder proof. Great fun but bloody expensive. 
I only ever use SxS guns. Enjoy your hammer gun.

If today is any indication I certainly will. 

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9 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

Nitro proof or not it is great fun shooting black powder cartridges and using as was originally intended. A couple of boxes of brass cases and loading your own are worth the investment.

Thanks Dave. That is my next plan 👍

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paulinlincs, is the Linington name only on the rib, or is it also on the action?

Being intrigued by the discussion about date for the top lever and rebounding locks, I looked back at photos from the advert, and couldn’t see any name on the lock plate.   To my amateur eye, the hammers look quite low-set – something I would have expected to see on a later gun.   I am just wondering whether a pair of barrels from an 1867-ish gun might have been fitted onto a later action.   

Whatever its history, it is still a fine looking gun that will hopefully bring years of pleasure.   I am rather envious.

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7 hours ago, McSpredder said:

paulinlincs, is the Linington name only on the rib, or is it also on the action?

Being intrigued by the discussion about date for the top lever and rebounding locks, I looked back at photos from the advert, and couldn’t see any name on the lock plate.   To my amateur eye, the hammers look quite low-set – something I would have expected to see on a later gun.   I am just wondering whether a pair of barrels from an 1867-ish gun might have been fitted onto a later action.   

Whatever its history, it is still a fine looking gun that will hopefully bring years of pleasure.   I am rather envious.

Hi

Linington Newport IW is only on the top rib. The only writing on the locks is the number 5 on the insides. Linington Were an Ironmonger on the IOW. The proof marks and rebounding hammers lead me to believe it was built 1867 - 1868 but I am no expert I purely went on the evidence as rebounding hammers came into being in 1867 and the proof marks are Birmingham 1855 - 1868

Thank you it is lovely. Whatever it's age or history it is a beautiful piece of engineering and hope to use it regularly. 

Edited by paulinlincs
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  • 3 weeks later...

3" standard, now defunct because our stupid proof houses will only do as they are told by the  CIP ,so it can never be reproofed at anything other than 3" magnum  ,was for the old Alphamax . At 4 Tons it is equivalent to 2&3/4" magnum loads .

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Hello, I have a few side by sides already but recently acquired this old George Gibbs that is in a slightly sorry state. It seems an interesting gun so I was happy to take possession even if it wasn't usable, however I would be very keen to take it out now and again if safe to do so. This is the bit that will require a little more expertise than I currently have but I am learning all the time from a friend and also the group expertise of PW! I know either the case or case label do not match the gun itself but it is what it came in. The previous owner inherited the cased gun and knows nothing about its history, had never fired it.

20200718_104316.jpg

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1 hour ago, Huntly said:

Hello, I have a few side by sides already but recently acquired this old George Gibbs that is in a slightly sorry state. It seems an interesting gun so I was happy to take possession even if it wasn't usable, however I would be very keen to take it out now and again if safe to do so. This is the bit that will require a little more expertise than I currently have but I am learning all the time from a friend and also the group expertise of PW! I know either the case or case label do not match the gun itself but it is what it came in. The previous owner inherited the cased gun and knows nothing about its history, had never fired it.

20200718_104316.jpg

Looks like an early Gibbs & Pitt action gun from what I can see.

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Well....the first Tula TOZ66 was a straight stocked model - so not really good for slug shooting
Sold it and got a couple of TOZ66 with the fatter "pistol grip"/PoW style stocks.
Had them chopped to a more user friendly 24 1/2" length, then one was nabbed by a mate for "coach gun" stages/comps at his local club
Picked up another T0Z66 this week with the same stock as  #2 & #3.
It's factory spec at present with awful red AK47 type varnish/stain on the wood - so that will need stripping off...they seem to have decent wood underneath for the most part.
May look at tweaking the springs too. Very easy guns to work on & great fun to use. Will be leaving #4 unaltered aside from refinishing the stock...

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1 hour ago, matone said:

Looks like an early Gibbs & Pitt action gun from what I can see.

Yes it says Gibbs & Pitt Patent 154 on the top strap, their patent from 1873 from what I can find online, and also what I believe but do not know for certain, that the number 154 means it was gun no. 154 to be produced using that patent. 

The gun has 2 sets of 30" barrels, one damascus and one 'Whitworth Steel', both matching serial numbers and marked as number 2, as is the stock of the gun. No modern proof marks so if I get to fire it I will be loading black powder cartridges. 

20200718_103516.jpg

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1 hour ago, Huntly said:

Yes it says Gibbs & Pitt Patent 154 on the top strap, their patent from 1873 from what I can find online, and also what I believe but do not know for certain, that the number 154 means it was gun no. 154 to be produced using that patent. 

The gun has 2 sets of 30" barrels, one damascus and one 'Whitworth Steel', both matching serial numbers and marked as number 2, as is the stock of the gun. No modern proof marks so if I get to fire it I will be loading black powder cartridges. 

20200718_103516.jpg

Top quality by the looks of the engraving .

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On 13/07/2020 at 10:30, Gunman said:

3" standard, now defunct because our stupid proof houses will only do as they are told by the  CIP ,so it can never be reproofed at anything other than 3" magnum  ,was for the old Alphamax . At 4 Tons it is equivalent to 2&3/4" magnum loads .

Yes. Damned silly. Although given that some shooters are even damn sillier I can see why it was decreed. Same as the reason the pressure specification for .38 Special was raised because of the .38 Special +P rounds.

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What is the case label? You'll see lots of guns in cases with C B Vaughan labels yet C B Vaughan never made, or had made, a gun with that name on it. Why? Google C B Vaughan Strand and you'll see that they were in fact pawnbrokers specialising in guns and etc.. Which is why you'll see Purdey or Boss guns in C B Vaughan lists. As you'd have though that the owner would have gotten a better price selling through the maker's own shop. But in fact it was probably never at all, originally the owner's intention to part with his gun...but having pawned then the owner failed to redeem their pledge so the gun became forfeit to Vaughan.

Edited by enfieldspares
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2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

George Gibbs are still around and very much alive in Wiltshire.  https://gibbsgunmakers.com/

The current owner (Mark Crudgington) grew up in a gun retailing family (Ian Crudgington of Bath) and learned the full gunmaking trade.  Mark may well be able to tell you a bit more about the gun. 

Thank you, I will get in touch and ask him. Its a pity I live so far away or I would have taken it in for him to look at in person. I am going to need to get the gun checked over as I don't have the tools to measure the barrel dimensions or the knowledge to appraise a piece of damage to the underside of the action, where a small piece of metal appears to have broken away. 

20200718_103546.jpg

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