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    Seen on the news that India are to bring back the death penalty for people convicted of raping children under 12.  After popular demand across India they done the right thing and let’s hope they roll it out in future for other heinous crimes. 

     

    Wish we still had it in this country, would save a fortune keeping some real evil people alive. 

    Edited by figgy

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    Watched that too, it's sickening that infant sexually abused and just tossed down the stairs. Once proved guilty they should burn them. 

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    13 minutes ago, Dougy said:

    Watched that too, it's sickening that infant sexually abused and just tossed down the stairs. Once proved guilty they should burn them. 

    + 1

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    As a father of 4 I’d do anything to protect my kids and thing child rape (any rape) is sick but I hope they don’t kill the wrong person. 

    Hppefully it’ll be a deterrent in its self.

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    43 minutes ago, guzzicat said:

    Muslim ? Pigskin rope, Hindu Same with cowhide.

    No need to offend their religion just punish their own crimes.

    Edited by figgy

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    3 minutes ago, figgy said:

    No need to offend their religion just punish their own crimes.

    Not offending the religion, just means they cannot enter their"hereafter", if it stopped one potential offender it would be worth it. I don,t think a true believer would have a problem

     

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    I feel like this is one of those threads that could develop into a full-blown debate. I'll leave my 2 cents here.

    I'm not for the death penalty, at all. First and foremost, people have been wrongly convicted and put to death because of it. That's a fact.

    One of the most common arguments is the notion that it saves money, and people are VERY quick to jump to this conclusion without knowing the facts.

    Studies that effortlessly debunk the idea that the death penalty is a money-saver: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

    The UK government also release stats regularly on costs per prisoner per year: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/prison-performance-statistics-2016-to-2017 so you can do the math and see it's not effective to simply kill off pedos and save money. That's not how it works at all.

    These people charged with these offences are simply scumbags, I couldn't care about them whatsoever, but if you want to talk hard facts with regard to financials, they shouldn't be put to death. If it's more an emotional thing, which is understandable, I'd argue it's not sound basis for legislation.

    So I massively disagree, India didn't get it right.

    Edited by DanBettin

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    The "facts" cited above are mainly just opinion. The opinion that prisoners cost more when they are dead, than serving a 30 year sentence is just silly. No doubt someone will start talking about appeal costs, but it's like the Remain campaign - some do not want to face the truth - they still trot out the "what if" argument. Wait any longer and someone will utter the classic line "Think of the children".

    I favour the death penalty for murder, but people keep bringing up past mistakes. I would only be in favour in cases which were 100% watertight. For those who still say mistakes could be made - based on that premise, there would be no prisoners in jail at all.

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    1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

    The "facts" cited above are mainly just opinion. The opinion that prisoners cost more when they are dead, than serving a 30 year sentence is just silly. No doubt someone will start talking about appeal costs, but it's like the Remain campaign - some do not want to face the truth - they still trot out the "what if" argument. Wait any longer and someone will utter the classic line "Think of the children".

    I favour the death penalty for murder, but people keep bringing up past mistakes. I would only be in favour in cases which were 100% watertight. For those who still say mistakes could be made - based on that premise, there would be no prisoners in jail at all.

    +1

    15 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

     with regard to financials, they shouldn't be put to death. If it's more an emotional thing, which is understandable, I'd argue it's not sound basis for legislation.

    So I massively disagree, India didn't get it right.

    Its not about money ,its about trying to stop people doing it in the first place !
    If a deterrent works 1 % of the time ,is it not worth it ?
    And before you , or anyone else says 'mistakes have been made' Yes 60 + years ago , when forensic technology was nothing like what we have now.

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    12 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

    The "facts" cited above are mainly just opinion. The opinion that prisoners cost more when they are dead, than serving a 30 year sentence is just silly. No doubt someone will start talking about appeal costs, but it's like the Remain campaign - some do not want to face the truth - they still trot out the "what if" argument. Wait any longer and someone will utter the classic line "Think of the children".

    I favour the death penalty for murder, but people keep bringing up past mistakes. I would only be in favour in cases which were 100% watertight. For those who still say mistakes could be made - based on that premise, there would be no prisoners in jail at all.

    What were the opinions? The purpose of a study is that it's a peer-reviewed report of facts, actually click the link and read.

    And are you not an advocate of learning from mistakes?

    Also, let's assume a case is "100% watertight, and the death penalty was cheaper, I would 100% back the death penalty. That's not the case.

    6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

    +1

    Its not about money ,its about trying to stop people doing it in the first place !
    If a deterrent works 1 % of the time ,is it not worth it ?
    And before you , or anyone else says 'mistakes have been made' Yes 60 + years ago , when forensic technology was nothing like what we have now.

    It wasn't me who brought up money, the OP said it's cheaper, it's simply not. I believe studies more than I believe a heated PW post.

    With regard to a deterrent, you make a more valid point - but no, it's not an effective deterrent. https://theconversation.com/theres-no-evidence-that-death-penalty-is-a-deterrent-against-crime-43227

     

    ---------

    Let me just reiterate this, because I think it's important:

     Assuming we had 100% certainty the accused were guilty, and we had evidence that the death penalty was cheaper, I would 100% back the death penalty.

    Edited by DanBettin

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    5 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

    What were the opinions? The purpose of a study is that it's a peer-reviewed report of facts, actually click the link and read.

    And are you not an advocate of learning from mistakes?

    Also, let's assume a case is "100% watertight, and the death penalty was cheaper, I would 100% back the death penalty. That's not the case.

    It wasn't me who brought up money, the OP said it's cheaper, it's simply not. I believe studies more than I believe a heated PW post.

    With regard to a deterrent, you make a more valid point - but no, it's not an effective deterrent. https://theconversation.com/theres-no-evidence-that-death-penalty-is-a-deterrent-against-crime-43227

     

    ---------

    Let me just reiterate this, because I think it's important:

     Assuming we had 100% certainty the accused were guilty, and we had evidence that the death penalty was cheaper, I would 100% back the death penalty.

    Those studies are from American law, a completely different system of justice and execution ?

    So you support the death penalty ? If we can prove it 100 %? 
    I dont see what your argument is then.

    And trust me ,this argument is in no way heated yet :lol:

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    3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

    Those studies are from American law, a completely different system of justice and execution ?

    So you support the death penalty ? If we can prove it 100 %? 
    I dont see what your argument is then.

    And trust me ,this argument is in no way heated yet :lol:

    If there were a case were, somehow, the conviction was made with 100% certainty, and the death penalty was cheaper, I believe the ruling should be the death penalty. I'm not coming at this from a moral perspective.

    The real issue is the certainty of the conviction and the cost-effectiveness of the death penalty. Forensic evidence, mostly, tackles the first point - but not entirely. The cost-effectiveness of the death penalty we're yet to see evidence for.

    And yes, absolutely - a completely different system of justice and execution, but one that you'd like to see implemented here - so what a perfect example to look at.

    Edited by DanBettin

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    1 minute ago, DanBettin said:

    If there were a case were, somehow, the conviction was made with 100% certainty, and the death penalty was cheaper, I believe the ruling should be the death penalty. I'm not coming at this from a moral perspective.

    The real issue is the certainty of the conviction and the cost-effectiveness of the death penalty. Forensic evidence, mostly, tackles the first point - but not entirely. The cost-effectiveness of the death penalty we're yet to see evidence for.

    And yes, absolutely - a completely different system of justice and execution, but one that you'd like to see implemented here - so what a perfect example to look at.

    Some parts of it maybe, self defence laws in particular, but thats not the point, its never going to happen like that.

    I dont care if it costs twice as much to execute someone, than keep them in prison.
    Its better for the victims families, its a better deterrent, and its better for the general public to see justice being done.

    Put the death penalty to a referendum if they dare !

    Imagine knowing the man who raped and murdered your child laughing and joking with other like minded sickos, while you have a life sentence trying to put what he did out your mind, me ,Id sleep a whole lot better knowing he was dead.

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    4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

    Some parts of it maybe, self defence laws in particular, but thats not the point, its never going to happen like that.

    I dont care if it costs twice as much to execute someone, than keep them in prison.
    Its better for the victims families, its a better deterrent, and its better for the general public to see justice being done.

    Put the death penalty to a referendum if they dare !

    Imagine knowing the man who raped and murdered your child laughing and joking with other like minded sickos, while you have a life sentence trying to put what he did out your mind, me ,Id sleep a whole lot better knowing he was dead.

    Well your response there is emotionally-driven opinion, and I totally get that - but it's not enough to draw up a law, as I've said before. And I don't want to get into a heated debate of opinion (none of the facts I've cited are opinion). Not least because zapp will probably police it and close the thread...again.

    And you may not care if it costs twice as much, but I was only addressing the OP's claim that it wouldn't. 

    Edited by DanBettin

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    Dan, the costs you have quoted for the death penalty are for the USA. In Britain, when we used to hang people, they got 90 days in the cells, 1 appeal to the Home Secretary then got strung up, so its not that expensive!

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    2 minutes ago, Harry136 said:

    Dan, the costs you have quoted for the death penalty are for the USA. In Britain, when we used to hang people, they got 90 days in the cells, 1 appeal to the Home Secretary then got strung up, so its not that expensive!

    Don't shoot the messenger, the studies show the modern-day death penalty is not as cost-effective as is being argued here. If you want to ditch the modern-day measures and go back to stringing people up that's a different argument, I think it's a massive step-backwards, but that is just my opinion.

    Edited by DanBettin

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    1 minute ago, DanBettin said:

    Well your response there is emotionally-driven opinion, and I totally get that - but it's not enough to draw up a law, as I've said before. And I don't want to get into a heated debate of opinion (none of the facts I've cited are opinion). Not least because zapp will probably police it and close the thread...again.

    And you may not care if it costs twice as much, but I was only addressing the OP's claim that it wouldn't. 

    Its not emotionally driven, and I still dont think it heated.

    It just seems like a more common sense approach to me.
    There is massive public resentment to the way laws and sentencing are applied in this country, this leads to a loss of faith in the practice of law and its implementation .
    This is not a good place to be.

    Like I say, put it to a referendum and see what happens ?
    Highly unlikely scenario, because they know what the result will be .

    Just now, DanBettin said:

    Don't shoot the messenger, the studies show the modern-day death penalty is not as cost-effective as is being argued here. If you want to ditch the modern-day measures and go back to stringing people up that's a different argument, I think it's a massive step-backwards, but that is just my opinion.

    When 'the modern day measures' have lost the faith and support of the public, something has to change, if a step backwards is needed ,then so be it.
    This liberal society has made us weak willed.

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    How can it possibly cost more to execute someone than keep them in prison ? 

    Not once did i say bring the American system here. Bringing the death penalty back to the UK has nothing to do with America.

    Way i and hope India look at is this, go to court found guilty 100% lead out of court either beheaded hanged or shot. cost very little. Body given to organ donation first for donors and then medical science.

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    1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

    Its not emotionally driven, and I still dont think it heated.

    It just seems like a more common sense approach to me.
    There is massive public resentment to the way laws and sentencing are applied in this country, this leads to a loss of faith in the practice of law and its implementation .
    This is not a good place to be.

    Like I say, put it to a referendum and see what happens ?
    Highly unlikely scenario, because they know what the result will be .

    When 'the modern day measures' have lost the faith and support of the public, something has to change, if a step backwards is needed ,then so be it.
    This liberal society has made us weak willed.

    "I don't care...it's better...imagine...seems to me...this is not a good place to be". All opinion.

    1 minute ago, figgy said:

    How can it possibly cost more to execute someone than keep them in prison ? 

    Not once did i say bring the American system here. Bringing the death penalty back to the UK has nothing to do with America.

    Way i and hope India look at is this, go to court found guilty 100% lead out of court either beheaded hanged or shot. cost very little. Body given to organ donation first for donors and then medical science.

    I posted the answer to that half an hour ago!? Lot of ignorance in here. 

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    Just think what the majority of crimes people are locked up for. The death penalty has a 100% no re-offending rate! The sooner we ditch the ECHR the better! I feel that the following crimes are worthy of the death penalty:-

    Rape of a child under 10

    Multiple rapes

    Drug dealing

    Drug mules

    Burglary

    Murder (more than 1 person)

    Treason

    Terrorism

     

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    Just now, Harry136 said:

    Just think what the majority of crimes people are locked up for. The death penalty has a 100% no re-offending rate! The sooner we ditch the ECHR the better! I feel that the following crimes are worthy of the death penalty:-

    Rape of a child under 10

    Multiple rapes

    Drug dealing

    Drug mules

    Burglary

    Murder (more than 1 person)

    Treason

    Terrorism

     

    :lol: I think I might have to give up with this conversation

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    this thing about the wrong people being executed is not the fault of the death penalty,the fault lies squarley with the court for getting it wrong,we now have the means to be 100% certain with modern technology so mistakes should never occur again,so when found guilty,,,put them to daeth its what they deserve.

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    5 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

    "I don't care...it's better...imagine...seems to me...this is not a good place to be". All opinion.

     

    Your definition of 'emotionally driven opinion' is most definitely not the same as mine.
    And even if there was emotion involved, so ?

     

    8 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

     

    I posted the answer to that half an hour ago!? Lot of ignorance in here. 

    You compared American execution costs, with British prison costs !

     

    6 minutes ago, DanBettin said:

     I think I might have to give up with this conversation

    I would if I was you, youre not making a lot of sense.

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