NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE, RENEWAL SGC

[decoyman]

Sorry to bore you all with another tale of woe but am now on 2nd temp permit for renewal after 1st one expired(technically leaving me in contravention of law for 8 days).

luckily I could lend them to my wife on her ticket and give her keys to my sg cabinet. However, could not access shotguns for vermin or pigeon control on my little shoot.

Interestingly, I could use the x bolt or t bolt. DAFTNESS. If the police do not want the job, then let someone else do it.

West Midlands/Staffs take note.

[Scully]

I would suggest you contact your shooting organisation, but that too is potentially becoming a farce also. 

[decoyman]

I am in Basc and have just joined C.Alliance also. I realise if I shout at the police or bring in orginisations, then it would appear.

My wifes renewal was over the phone. The point is the admin involved in 2 x temps and logging 4 x shotguns back and forwards at firearms dept must be counterproductive.

I feel the time has come for shooters to be more militant.

My way is the long wait, To my mind they are just digging themselves a deeper hole and losing the respect of people they cannot afford to alienate.

I know there will be some on here shouting at the screen but we all have our own ways.

[Scully]

The trouble with being law abiding shooters, is just that; we're law abiding and shooters. Hence they have us over a barrel. Many are reluctant to rock boats in case it's detrimental to their tickets. 

[decoyman]

Sadly very true.

Regards,

[Dougy]

I'm with staffs and had to wait for mine too.  My ticket was out of date by 2 months I think, I had no concerns at all,  they were pleasant, and apologetic and told me that it "is" being processes and will be with me ASAP.  

[decoyman]

Hi Dougy,

I'm not saying they are being difficult. Just that the admin process has become something of a joke and spiralling downwards rapidly.

Some parts of the country are excellent. Some are diabolical.(As detailed on this forum)

A renewal should be routine. Thank God my FAC is not the same date.

Regards,

[Graham M]

I'm with Staff's/West Mid's and the problem is, when the two forces merged they got rid of all the West Mid's FEO's and gave the job to Staff's. So, we now have a firearms dept' doing more than twice the area with less than half the staff. 

When my FEO came to visit, he turned up in police uniform complete with anti-stab vest. He was pleasant enough but admitted that he was learning on the job as he hadn't a clue about the job and had a folder complete with a set of questions/instructions. 

Once he had settled he turned out to be a nice chap, but was so lacking in knowledge about sporting shooting it beggared belief. Is it any wonder they are struggling to renew licences when they are running around the countryside like chickens with their heads cut off due to a complete lack of any understanding of how the system used to work when we had dedicated FEO's, who already knew us, doing the job

Edited April 27, 2018 by Graham M

[Harnser]

Bring back the days when the local Bobby came round and had a chat and a cup of coffee and renewed your ticket within a couple of days .

harnser

[team tractor]

I’m currently waiting for mine with staffs. I sent it off the first week of January for a 20th March expiration. I rang up on monday saying I’m out of ammo for the rim fires and I’m stuck. 

Her reply was pleasant and apparently it’s going through this month  But she asked if I can get some ammo off a mate? I asked but isn’t that illegal ? She was struggling to answer that one.

if I can’t buy ammo because my tickets expired then a mate can’t give me it either. 

I’m on a temporary cert still. 

 

Go back 5 years and it took 4-5 weeks start to finish on the application.

[fse10]

Yes a pain in the back side for the op, but not an issue as SGC are extended for eight weeks after exp as long as you have you renewal in on time so no need to move onto wife's SGC.  Also you can still use your shotguns & buy shotgun cartridges on a sec7 temp cert.

[CharlieT]

9 hours ago, Harnser said:

Bring back the days when the local Bobby came round and had a chat and a cup of coffee and renewed your ticket within a couple of days .

harnser

Ah, those were the days. 

Always made me chuckle that he always timed it at exactly the time the frying pan went on for breakfast, I always reckoned he hid behind the hedge till he could smell the bacon cooking.

[Lloyd90]

Bristol FEO popped round the other week for a chat, lovely bloke, said they don’t do home visits anymore unless they have any intelligence on you for wrong doing. Just came as a first visit because I transferred over. 

Mad regars for upsetting those they can’t afford to alienate? Where does that come from? Shooters are as much use as a chocolate fireguard ... what exactly do you propose we even do about it? 

Time to get militant? All talk but what would you actually want us to do? 

[decoyman]

2 hours ago, fse10 said:

Yes a pain in the back side for the op, but not an issue as SGC are extended for eight weeks after exp as long as you have you renewal in on time so no need to move onto wife's SGC.  Also you can still use your shotguns & buy shotgun cartridges on a sec7 temp cert.

Hi FSE10, For reference, application submitted plenty early enough as required.

8 week extension has only just been implemented.

my 1st temp expired without the second being received. It only came 8 days later after my e-mail to firearms dept.

I would not take a gun with me without some form of authority. Judges don't always follow nods and winks.

As stated, very poor service all round.

[decoyman]

16 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Bristol FEO popped round the other week for a chat, lovely bloke, said they don’t do home visits anymore unless they have any intelligence on you for wrong doing. Just came as a first visit because I transferred over. 

Mad regars for upsetting those they can’t afford to alienate? Where does that come from? Shooters are as much use as a chocolate fireguard ... what exactly do you propose we even do about it? 

Time to get militant? All talk but what would you actually want us to do? 

Good morning Lloyd 90,

Phew, my idea of militant is swelling the ranks of shooting orgs and applying pressure on them to be more forceful.

Yours might be more direct, but there is not really very much we can do as individuals.

Long term I think were up a creek.

[Dougy]

I looked into the job of being a FEO and to be honest the hours and miles they do for the money it's not the best job in the world. But I agree it still needs to be done right. As stated above Staffs and Warwickshire were combined some years ago and the number of staff dealing with double the work load has been reduced. And it's not the staff at the firearms office that made these changes, they certainly would not have agreed to those changes, they're just the guys on the front line. 

Before i sent my renewal in I was advised to stock up on components, just before my FAC expired I rang up and spoke about having my firearms put in storage, they told me not to be concerned as I had not had my licence revoked for any reason and it is being processed. Yes I agree they were actually telling me to brake the law as I was not in possession of my valid FAC,  but I was told by the very people that gave me that FAC that there would be no problems if I had a visit or was stopped while in possession away from home. 

During the conversation with Staffs I asked for names of the people I spoke to, and mentioned to them that I was making notes, they were fine with that but ensured that there would be no problems. 

[decoyman]

West Mercia have/had a vacancy for head of firearms dept. recently at below 40k if I remember correctly.

I think most of these positions are filled by retired/ex officers anyway. Resources are limited but Best practice isn't happening.

Good old time and motion study required.

Regards.

[Dougy]

This all gives a better leverage for a 10 years ticket in the future. 

[Scully]

Never being in possession of valid tickets has never stopped me from shooting. I can’t understand why it would; just get out there and enjoy yourselves .

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, decoyman said:

Good morning Lloyd 90,

Phew, my idea of militant is swelling the ranks of shooting orgs and applying pressure on them to be more forceful.

Yours might be more direct, but there is not really very much we can do as individuals.

Long term I think were up a creek.

Unfortunately the shooting organisation have been about as much use as the firearms departments ... 

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Dougy said:

This all gives a better leverage for a 10 years ticket in the future. 

I'm thinking the 10 year ticket might just move the five yearly backlog hiccups along a little. That apparently stems from when the tickets were three years. That left two quiet years where staff were underemployed - and presumably dropped: Followed by a need to rapidly train staff for the next three years peak demand which is going to be difficult to justify keeping them for another five years.

 

Dare I suggest that 6, 7 8,9 and ten year renewals 'staggered as needed' might work better to smooth out the peaks and troughs in demand on staff for renewals - which might then result in more experienced FLO's.

[Dougy]

Your right about the 3 year issue Dave, staggering the renewals would unfortunately great a bit of disagreements  between licence holders with some thinking they're getting a poor deal. 

[Salopian]

Staggered renewals is exactly what West Mercia /Warks are now proposing. Had a very nice well written letter today from Stephen Millington Manager Firearms & Explosive Licensing West Mercia inviting primarily shotgun certificate holders to apply upto two years earlier than their renewal requires , the aim is to redistribute renewals evenly through a five year cycle.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

19 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Staggered renewals is exactly what West Mercia /Warks are now proposing. Had a very nice well written letter today from Stephen Millington Manager Firearms & Explosive Licensing West Mercia inviting primarily shotgun certificate holders to apply upto two years earlier than their renewal requires , the aim is to redistribute renewals evenly through a five year cycle.

Many years ago, I would split the servicing of all weapons in to 10 groups and then no servicing was carried out in August and December. It is a simple principle and allows you to plan ahead!

Why the Managers of all the Firearms Licencing Departments do not adopt a similar process, they know how many people hold SGCs in their area and can make a reasonable guess at how many new applications can be expected.

Of course if we were to get the 10 year renewal period promised a while ago it would allow a little bit of "wiggle room" within the system and could allow them to sort this out once and for all.

Poor weather here at the moment, I was hoping to see some pigs fly past!

[team tractor]

5 hours ago, decoyman said:

West Mercia have/had a vacancy for head of firearms dept. recently at below 40k if I remember correctly.

I think most of these positions are filled by retired/ex officers anyway. Resources are limited but Best practice isn't happening.

Good old time and motion study required.

Regards.

I’d love 40k a year or even 30k.