An "offer" from Belgium

[Jaymo]

For the last 17 years I have been working in Europe for a ‘European Company’ , I have a family and mortgage to pay, so if it makes my life and travelling easier, would I accept the offer of a European Passport ( one from my country of employment?)—- too bloody true I would, but it doesn’t make me a traitor- dis loyal or my favourite most used description, scum’ ? Nope

I know how emotive you guys feel on the subject and I have my views- let’s put them all to one side and let each other do as they wish and hope that it works out for all of us!

 

edit due to usual spelling, tiredness and too much wine

Edited May 4, 2018 by Jaymo

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

For the last 17 years I have been working in Europe for a ‘European Company’ , I have a family and mortgage to pay, so if it makes my life and travelling easier, would I accept the offer of a European Passport ( one from my country of employment?)—- too bloody true I would, but it doesn’t make me a traitor- dis loyal or my favourite most used description, scum’ ? Nope

I know how emotive you guys feel on the subject and I have my views- let’s put them all to one side and let each other do as they wish and hope that it works out for all of us!

 

edit due to usual spelling, tiredness and too much wine

Ya boo , hisss ect traitor ! 

No one in their right mind would refuse such an offer.

However, I think the perceived issue was, when that country has done with you, do you then revert back to being British ?
Would it just be dual nationality, what about pensions ect.
More importantly, should it even be necessary ?
The EU is talking about the rights of citizens, and champions free movement, so is it going to put a block on people like yourself  if you need to work abroad, or at the very least ,make it difficult for you ?
If it does, its the worst type of hypocrite.

To me its just like the Irish border issue, there isnt one.

[Jaymo]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Ya boo , hisss ect traitor ! 

No one in their right mind would refuse such an offer.

However, I think the perceived issue was, when that country has done with you, do you then revert back to being British ?
Would it just be dual nationality, what about pensions ect.
More importantly, should it even be necessary ?
The EU is talking about the rights of citizens, and champions free movement, so is it going to put a block on people like yourself  if you need to work abroad, or at the very least ,make it difficult for you ?
If it does, its the worst type of hypocrite.

To me its just like the Irish border issue, there isnt one.

No matter where I in the world I have been/worked- I’m still British, but I do adopt the local ‘mentality’, even if it does mean having to drink fine wines and live an outdoor lifestyle ;-)

 

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

No matter where I in the world I have been/worked- I’m still British, but I do adopt the local ‘mentality’, even if it does mean having to drink fine wines and live an outdoor lifestyle ;-)

 

[Retsdon]

Richard North's blog http://www.eureferendum.com/default.aspx is a sobering read. And when you take into account that he's actually a Brexiter and so is hardly motivated to exaggerate the downside of leaving the EU, it becomes downright scary.

[scotslad]

I voted to leave but many on here, the real vocal leavers seem to expect to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.

 

So its ok for some with UK passports to work abroad but not any to come here to work?

Same with the border debate, i really don't see why there shouldn't be a hard border. Why make a special excemption?

We are hopefully getting wot we voted for we're leaving so why would u expect anything else?

If the EU/non EU border was further east allowing immigrants throu should it still be an open border.

There does seem to be a fair degree of hupocricy in many of these 'brexit' typ post's, i should know better than to read 1

 

 

[Vince Green]

29 minutes ago, scotslad said:

I voted to leave but many on here, the real vocal leavers seem to expect to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.

 

So its ok for some with UK passports to work abroad but not any to come here to work?

 

 

 

Coming here to work is fine, if we need them. The pivotal question is who decides?  That's not unreasonable or hypocritical.

[scotslad]

11 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Coming here to work is fine, if we need them. The pivotal question is who decides?  That's not unreasonable or hypocritical.

I imagine it would go along a sort of points system like many other countries. which i don't think many would have a problem with (depending how they allocate points)

Or a permit/visa system could see it getting petty with EU just based on numbers, we allow 100 of theirs so they allow 100  brits

[Rewulf]

12 hours ago, scotslad said:

I voted to leave but many on here, the real vocal leavers seem to expect to pick and choose which rules we want to follow.
Not really, we are trying to reach compromises with the EU .
Unfortunately theres a problem you are ignoring or not grasping, the EU dont want us to leave.
And because of that ,they are making negotiations as difficult as possible, the whole issue of the Irish border is a stumbling block they have chucked into the path.
No one in Ireland or the UK in general wants a hard border. Lets get that straight.
The EU keeps rattling on about it and making it an issue, because THEY know a hard border would be deeply unpopular.
THEY  keep talking about preserving the good friday agreement, then talk about unifying, something they know full well is deeply unpopular in the north.
If anything would put peace at risk in NI , its hard borders or forced union.
And again , its not up to the EU how the people of Ireland live their lives.
Do you seriously think they CARE about the people, they are just a chess piece to them.

 

So its ok for some with UK passports to work abroad but not any to come here to work?
Absolutely no one has said that.

Same with the border debate, i really don't see why there shouldn't be a hard border. Why make a special excemption?
We already have a special arrangement, have done for 100 years, what is the problem with extending it ?

We are hopefully getting wot we voted for we're leaving so why would u expect anything else?

If the EU/non EU border was further east allowing immigrants throu should it still be an open border.
The only thing stopping immigrants (legal and illegal) just walking in , is that strip of water off Dover.
If Ireland or Scotland were land bridged to the rest of Europe , you might have a different opinion on migrants.

There does seem to be a fair degree of hupocricy in many of these 'brexit' typ post's, i should know better than to read 1

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, scotslad said:

I imagine it would go along a sort of points system like many other countries. which i don't think many would have a problem with (depending how they allocate points)

Or a permit/visa system could see it getting petty with EU just based on numbers, we allow 100 of theirs so they allow 100  brits

You mean non EU countries, yes hopefully something like that happens.
People talk a lot of nonsense when it comes to the aggravation of visas ect.
If you have ever been to the US , theirs seems to work OK , the issues with S. Americans seem to all come from their land border.
We are an Island thankfully.

[Tollerman]

I'm sure guest workers ( seasonal fruit and veg pickers) exsisted before the Common market / EU .Remember the French onion sellers a common sight on the south coast .Don't think they had any trouble getting over here.If Europeans ( or indeed anyone else)wish to come over to the UK to work ,as long as they are essential ,I can't see a problem .However if they wish to settle that's another matter.Year by year the green spaces between our towns and cities are being eroded in order to house the growing population .

If we don't do something soon to curtail immigration regardless of where they come from we will see a rapidly decreasing standard of life .The relentless building of new houses in my part of Essex is becoming a nightmare with land ,some of which I once shot over ,vanishing at a frightening rate.

 Having often driven across Northern Ireland to the northern counties of the Republic over the last forty years I certainly would hate to see a  'Hard Border' with the return of sandbagged check points and soldiers armed with machine guns manning them.Life has dramatically improved for all the people on both sides of the border and long may it continue.

[panoma1]

The EU could offer all UK citizens EU citizenship (passport) and we could all keep our UK citizenship........then we would be either in or out (or float between the two!) of the European Community as we choose!.........as citizens of the UK (we) could choose to not to pay a penny in to the EU, trade with the world, stop EU citizens freedom to move to the UK whilst retaining the freedom of movement as EU citizens ourselves, stay in the customs union and stay in the single markets as and when it suits!

If it was not to our individual advantage to follow UK regulations/law we could choose EU law to decide, if It was not to our individual advantage to follow EU regulations/law, we could choose UK law to decide......this is my idea for the ideal Brexit......freedom to choose the "best of both worlds" and have  "two bites of the cherry" eh! Lol!

And like all good fairytales, we all live happily ever after!

Sounds like a plan!

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Tollerman said:

I'm sure guest workers ( seasonal fruit and veg pickers) exsisted before the Common market / EU .Remember the French onion sellers a common sight on the south coast .Don't think they had any trouble getting over here.If Europeans ( or indeed anyone else)wish to come over to the UK to work ,as long as they are essential ,I can't see a problem .However if they wish to settle that's another matter.Year by year the green spaces between our towns and cities are being eroded in order to house the growing population .

If we don't do something soon to curtail immigration regardless of where they come from we will see a rapidly decreasing standard of life .The relentless building of new houses in my part of Essex is becoming a nightmare with land ,some of which I once shot over ,vanishing at a frightening rate.

 Having often driven across Northern Ireland to the northern counties of the Republic over the last forty years I certainly would hate to see a  'Hard Border' with the return of sandbagged check points and soldiers armed with machine guns manning them.Life has dramatically improved for all the people on both sides of the border and long may it continue.

The housing shortage is a frightening backlash of uncontrolled immigration.
The other side of the issue is birth rate among many non EU migrants being much higher, and not being taken into consideration when it comes to future housing issues.

The house builders are taking the maximum urine when it comes to green belt grabs, they know where the money is at ,and are holding the government to ransom over it.
The government asks for 'affordable housing' in brown belt  areas, the builders put up 4 bedroom detached 'unaffordable' houses in green belt.
Not a solution.

As far as NI goes, its about time the people had a say in the matter , rather than heads of state jockeying for position over it.
They are there to serve, for the good of the people , not themselves.

[ordnance]

Quote

Having often driven across Northern Ireland to the northern counties of the Republic over the last forty years I certainly would hate to see a  'Hard Border' with the return of sandbagged check points and soldiers armed with machine guns manning them.Life has dramatically improved for all the people on both sides of the border and long may it continue.

I agree, hopefully the EU and Republic of Ireland government wont put a hard border in place.  PS I doubt they would need sandbagged check points and soldiers armed with machine guns to stop someone trying to avoid customs checks on their dodgy tomato's or similar. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by ordnance

[panoma1]

16 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I agree, hopefully the EU and Republic of Ireland government wont put a hard border in place.  PS I doubt they would need sandbagged check points and soldiers armed with machine guns to stop someone trying to avoid customs checks on their tomato's or similar. 

Surely the Border between NI and The Republic isn't just a problem for the UK government? Should not the EU be proactive in resolving the matter with the UK amicably? Instead of putting the onus on the UK to find a resolution!

If the EU ain't gonna contribute to finding a solution, then the UK should just tell em how it's gonna be!......."lick it and stick it"

[Vince Green]

3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Surely the Border between NI and The Republic isn't just a problem for the UK government? Should not the EU be proactive in resolving the matter with the UK amicably? Instead of putting the onus on the UK to find a resolution!

If the EU ain't gonna contribute to finding a solution, then the UK should just tell em how it's gonna be!......."lick it and stick it"

That's right, nobody is ever going to be smuggling stuff from the south into the north. Its an artificially generated stumbling block and whatever we suggest they can and will say "that's no good" with a smug grin on their face.

Nobody in the EU gives a flying fig about Ireland or its border, the truth is neither do we

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

If the EU ain't gonna contribute to finding a solution,

"Some people think that we could have two different sets of rules on the island of Ireland and still avoid border checks. But Ireland is a member of the EU - and a proud member, I add. It is an active player, active, very active player, in the Single Market. Goods that enter Ireland also enter the Single Market. It is called the “Single” Market for a reason. 

So, since we all agree that we do not want a border, and since the UK agreed to respect Ireland's place in the Single Market, then that means goods entering Northern Ireland must comply with the rules of the Single Market and the Union Customs Code.

That is our logic. Simple as that.

Ladies and gentlemen, The EU does not want to have a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.  And we have no intention of questioning the UK's constitutional order. That is none of our business. 

We are seeking practical, practical and operational, solutions to a complex problem. No more, no less."

 http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-18-3624_en.htm

From  Barnier's speech in Dundalk last week. I don't think anything he's saying sounds too unreasonable quite honestly. 

 http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-18-3624_en.htm

 

 

[scotslad]

I agree with the above post retson, and it makes a bit of sense.

So that would effectively make the 'hard' border at the ferry terminals, and any tarris, checks etc would have to be appllied there

No doubt makes a lot of sense

 

BUT has the DUP/unionists not dug there heels in and insisting they want the exact same set up as the mainland and will not accept the hard border at ferry terminal essential differentating NI from the rest of UK.

That's where ur problem may lie

[ordnance]

Quote

BUT has the DUP/unionists not dug there heels in and insisting they want the exact same set up as the mainland and will not accept the hard border at ferry terminal essential differentating NI from the rest of UK.

That's where ur problem may lie

Correct that would be unacceptable to Unionist for lots of reasons.

Quote

Quote

Foster .And of course that's not something we in Northern Ireland could allow from a constitutional point of view, but also in terms of economics, it would be catastrophic to have a border down the Irish Sea.""56% of our goods from Northern Ireland go to Great Britain, so it is incredibly important that that border does not exist.

Ladies and gentlemen, The EU does not want to have a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.  And we have no intention of questioning the UK's constitutional order. That is none of our business.

Putting a border down the Irish sea, would be questioning the UKs constitutional order. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by ordnance

[Retsdon]

7 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Correct that would be unacceptable to Unionist for lots of reasons.

So what's the solution?

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

So what's the solution?

The first part of the solution would be to not listen to the lies and double talk of people like Barnier, the EU has been meddling in our constitution for 40 odd years! 

The second part is to walk away from negotiating with such people until they come forward with sensible solutions to a SHARED issue, and if that isn't possible, we deal with Eire alone on the matter. 

How about THEY come out the EU too? 

[scotslad]

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

So what's the solution?

Thats the million dollar question.

 

And considering the DUP has got westminster by the balls at the moment.

Its going to get very messy, could easy see off the present government (which would be no bad thing as there making a complete mess of brexit so far)

But who would win an other general election if it came to that shortly

Edited May 5, 2018 by scotslad

[ordnance]

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

So what's the solution?

That's for smarter people than me to come up with. Treating Northern Ireland different from other UK regions is not one of them, as Theresa May would find out if she tried it. 

Quote

The prime minister yesterday again ruled out any arrangement that leads to a border in the Irish Sea, between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. Theresa May reiterated her pledge to avoid such an outcome during a visit to the Province as part of her whirlwind tour of all four countries of the UK one year to the day before Brexit becomes operational.

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by ordnance

[scotslad]

The political editor  (andrew neil) of the scottish sun (i know not the most 'informed paper)  wrote about this months ago.

Because the DUP hold so much power over the lame duck tory governmet u could easy find the whole of UK's bargining point being set up to suit NI.and the DUP

 

If both EU and DUP stick to there guns, either whole UK has to adhere to EU trade zone rules (so no hard border at ports to keep DUP happy0,

Or set up a hard border with Eire which westminster also have claimed won't happen. but need s to happen for EU trade zone rules

Or EU has to relax its rule which has been in back and white for decades, are they really going to make a special exemption?

If they do thry will be setting a precedent for any new member states joining the EU and their nieghbours

There does not seem to be much room for negotation without someone changing their tune drastically.

 

And if EU do buckle and give the NI/Eire border a free pass, wot will it cost the UK? fishing rights? free movement for people? ????

While many may see this as a tiny non issue, it was never going to be the  case, it has pretty big implications esp with the way things are with religion and politics across the water

[Retsdon]

57 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The first part of the solution would be to not listen to the lies and double talk of people like Barnier, the EU has been meddling in our constitution for 40 odd years! 

The second part is to walk away from negotiating with such people until they come forward with sensible solutions to a SHARED issue, and if that isn't possible, we deal with Eire alone on the matter. 

How about THEY come out the EU too? 

So, no solution then.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, scotslad said:

 

Or EU has to relax its rule which has been in back and white for decades, are they really going to make a special exemption?

If they do thry will be setting a precedent for any new member states joining the EU and their nieghbours

 

There's the solution. 

And also the reason the EU don't want it.