Unsmart meters

[nobbyathome]

So there I was taking this week off from work and planing to do not a lot as I am normally non stop working I get a call from EDF as my tarrif is coming to an end I had a chat then did a price comparison and decided to stay with EDF for another year or so I enquired about smart meters and was told we can come and fit them as we have a cancellation and 2  guys are in the area this afternoon so I agreed all afternoon they were here driving me mad one guy on training and I guy supposedly monitoring what he does god was he boring a real 2018 health and safety moron that lectured me on everything in my house  I said I wanted 2 nd generation meters they have fitted 1st generation so if iswap providers in a year's time I have to change meters again after 4 boring hours the meters were done but they didn't connect to there own WiFi and he said they would try to boost the signal from there end but in his experience it never works so I have 2 smart meters that are not very bright so much for progress eh what a waste of a day off 

[JohnfromUK]

This sounds a bit like a friends 'problem'.  He had them (not sure which provider) come to fit a smart meter on the understanding it was a second generation.  Couldn't do it as the way the earthing was arranged was the older system to a local earth spike and the smart meter can only be used in PME earthed systems.  Another team (this time from Western Power who supply the poles and cables in our area) was sent some weeks later (another day off needed) to alter the earthing to the PME type.  The Western Power guys suggested that he would only get a Gen 1 meter as Gen 2 are not being widely rolled out yet .......... so he has to have another day off to get an old style meter fitted.  There is also some doubt as to whether our rural area has adequate coverage for the smart network (it isn't through your normal WiFi, but separate more like mobile phone signal).  Apparently if your meter is inside a masonry property (as many are in rural areas with older or listed properties as external meter boxes are uncommon) you may not get sufficient signal strength and various external aerial arrangements can be added depending on circumstances.  As with all radio things, it is hard to know if you will get a decent signal until you try ............ because local factors, building material (such as foil clad insulation) can ssield out radio signals.

[Mr gen]

My advise is not to bother getting a smart meter anyway. Who really benefits you or the supplier? it just another way of them gathering information about how we use electricity and how to charge and possible penalise us in the future with variable tariffs.  I wont be signing up for one of their FREE! smart meters.   

[JohnfromUK]

32 minutes ago, Mr gen said:

My advise is not to bother getting a smart meter anyway.

I would generally agree with that.  Those (myself included) who are reasonably 'tech savvy' and have a bit of an interest already know where the energy users are;

• For electricity, the things that 'heat' (e.g. cooking, heating, water heating inc washing, tumble drying), and to a lesser extent things that are on 24hrs a day (e.g. fridge/freezer).  It is easy to look up on line how much these use.
• For gas, again it's quite simple - the more you have the place warm, the more gas is used.

For me, I very much doubt it would tell me anything much that I don't already know (or can't find out in a few minutes on line).

If you want to know on a daily basis over a period how much you are using - it is easy enough to read the (old style) meter and either use a phone app, or a simple spreadsheet to record this.

For those who aren't interested - they won't bother looking at a smart meter either.

 

[Mr gen]

You are bang on John it is very simple to keep track of your consumption, with an old meter just send a meter reading in every week or so and the supplier will show you a graph

 of what's being used. you can find out as much or as little as you want without the suppliers having a constant half hourly stream of how you live your live.    

[Guest]

I agree with mr gen .why bother with them they only want you to have them so they can keep a track off you .you now how much you have used when the bill comes you don’t need a smart meter to keep telling you .british gas keep asking me if I want one .but I will not bother 

[Rewulf]

Sorry , but I have to disagree with the above comments.

Issues with having them fitted aside, they are unobtrusive and give you an insight into HOW you use gas and electric.
I was always under the impression that things like dryers ,cookers ect were expensive to use via electric, and gas central heating was relatively cheap.
Its completely the opposite.
My monthly spend on dual fuel is pretty much 2/3 gas and 1/3 electric, I know this due to the smart meter and associated app.
And I have no fear of using high usage electric appliances.

My estimated (dual fuel ) monthly bill started at £94, which I thought was excessive for a small 3 bed ,well insulated house.
Apparently EON now think so too, because they have the information supplied by the meter, and it is now £70.
This is after 6 months.

So I would say its done the job it was supposed to do.

[JohnfromUK]

Well I don't have a smart meter, but I'm reasonably 'tech savvy' and have normal meters that I can read easily because they are located all together in a 'plant room/boiler room'.  I terefore have a clear and accurate (the data covers more than 12 months) idea of what I use.

Electricity is pretty much constant consumption (on a day to day basis over 12 months) with between 7 and 10 KWhrs of electricity per day on 95% of days (occasionally lower or higher due to exceptional circumstances like Christmas (high) and being away (low)).  Annual average is about 9 KWhrs/day  Costs approx 95p to £1.50 a day, annual average about £1.40 a day.

Gas is hugely variable with the weather; In the summer with hot water usage only, about 4 or 5 KWhrs per day (about 15p).  In the winter, up to 250 KWhrs a day (about £7.00), but more typically about 1/3 of that, though considerably more (perhaps £12 plus) if you want shirtsleeves throughout in all rooms on a cold windy winter day.

Prices include a daily standing charge.  Expected annual usage is:

• 3224 KWhrs of electricity (£518.48 inc standing charges and VAT)
• 17208 KWhrs of gas (£597.68 inc standing charges and VAT)

This translates to about £93 a month. This covers all heating (42KW boiler and 3 gas fires and lighting (all LED),  I have no wood or coal burning heat sources) in a large old farmhouse with big rooms, high ceilings and big sash windows and an exposed location.  Cooking is all electric.

Both wiring and heating are modern, and a great deal of planning went into developing a system capable of providing a reasonably economical and very controllable heating system in a challenging (difficult to insulate) listed building.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[mickyh]

I think these smart meters will know when we are charging our  cars with domestic power in the future. 

So the Government can bang on extra tax for Road/Car Tax.

And if you cant pay, they'll switch you off without knocking on your door.

Why else would they do all this for free ?

Come on its Free, we all know nothing is Free !

[JohnfromUK]

11 minutes ago, mickyh said:

Come on its Free, we all know nothing is Free !

No - it's actually very expensive, but by sleight of politicians hand, it has been added into our electricity bills whether we like it or not, just like all of the windmills that don't generate if the wind doesn't blow, and have to be switched to 'safety mode' if the wind is to high (apparently), and the solar cells that don't generate at night, when much domestic electricity is used.

All of these wonderous things are heavily subsidised by the kind bill payer - NOT all of Joe Public, only those who pay electricity bills.  It will cost the average house an extra £250 a year rising to £350 a year longer term.  See https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/11292367/Green-policies-to-add-up-to-40pc-to-cost-of-household-electricity.html

We have our good honest hard working politicians - particularly Chris Huhne to thank for this.  He was indeed so honest that he actually did jail https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/10235327/Row-as-disgrace-Chris-Huhne-lands-top-energy-job.html for perverting the course of justice - such are the 'honourable members' who rule over us. 

Since coming out of prison he has landed a prime consultancy in the energy sector ....... and does public speaking (for a substantial fee) ..... http://www.chrishuhne.org.uk/

[matone]

41 minutes ago, mickyh said:

I think these smart meters will know when we are charging our  cars with domestic power in the future. 

So the Government can bang on extra tax for Road/Car Tax.

And if you cant pay, they'll switch you off without knocking on your door.

Why else would they do all this for free ?

Come on its Free, we all know nothing is Free !

Spot on !

[lksopener]

We have been pestered to have one installed. 

 

Ive refused and will happily submit the readings monthly. 

There is more to this than we are aware. 

[clakk]

ignored them and will keep ignoring them,my 2 meters are side by side and can be read without injury ,or hassle for that matter .Dont want or need to keep my "current" supplier informed day in day out .My bill and meter reading is done when requested and the monthly bill hasnt risen for 2 years .If i thought they were extracting urine with the bill i,d go compare and move elsewhere as ive done twice in 9 years.Dont know weather the goverment is involved in this or not but why help their quest to know what,s what in your home 

[besty57]

1 hour ago, lksopener said:

We have been pestered to have one installed. 

 

Ive refused and will happily submit the readings monthly. 

There is more to this than we are aware. 

+1

[Ttfjlc]

Won't question people's decisions on whether to have them or not, I've commented on this before, some people aren't tech savvy at all. Went to a customer's house where she said she'd have to pay £200 a month for her electric, had a look around the house, 12 LED spot lights in the kitchen dining room, said it wouldn't be them but I was told they'd only recently been changed from halogens. Once I'd asked about them it turns out they were on for 8 hours a day, her face dropped when I told her that was 600w burning all that time, it slowly dawned on her where her money was going. 

As for the types of meters, Gen1 meters use the local data signal to relay information I.e. 4g 3g etc. Stone buildings really do KO the signal and we do struggle to get them to work. Gen2 meters are still in trial stages at the moment, they're supposedly going to use radio signals to send the information but being owned by the government you can change supplier and they'd still work as a smart meter.

[lksopener]

A sensible reply, my decision not to have a smart meter doesn’t relate to being tech savy either. 

Im quite aware of where our electricity goes and like you said taking simple measures like replacing gu10’s can make a huge difference. 

My parents had 2 4 bar spots on their kitchen, all with 50w gu10’s so 400 watts cumatively. Swapped out to Leds which incendentially are mode durable and the LEDs were only 5w each so 40 watts in total. 

A 10 fold decrease in power draw. 

Most people just can’t be bothered but it’s money in your pocket by taking a few simple steps. 

 

L

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, why would anyone need a smart meter,  oh Abingdon Town Council, the outside lights around the Museum seem to be on day and night, well those that are working,

[clakk]

Good call ,my kitchen lights are LED ,replaced GU10,s 2 years ago and my security light is 8w LED,S but it,s predecessor was a 500w meter speed spinner all the lamps are the same around the house L.E.D or low energy bulbs <free from the freebies website>.A bit of common sense saves a lot of dosh atb

33 minutes ago, lksopener said:

A sensible reply, my decision not to have a smart meter doesn’t relate to being tech savy either. 

Im quite aware of where our electricity goes and like you said taking simple measures like replacing gu10’s can make a huge difference. 

My parents had 2 4 bar spots on their kitchen, all with 50w gu10’s so 400 watts cumatively. Swapped out to Leds which incendentially are mode durable and the LEDs were only 5w each so 40 watts in total. 

A 10 fold decrease in power draw. 

Most people just can’t be bothered but it’s money in your pocket by taking a few simple steps. 

 

L

 

[nobbyathome]

Well my main reason on agreeing to have smart meters fitted was not to save money to be honest it was simply a) so I didn't need to be in when someone came round to read the meter b) or so  I didn't have to keep doing my own meter readings and sending it to EDF  online c) so my bills would be accurate and I wouldn't keep paying to much and then 9 months later paying peanuts for six months and then find out I owed money and then paid loads more  and also I don't want to be one of these old grumpy men that never have change and technology  at the end of the day if I want to put a light on or plug in a heater etc I will and no meter would stop me but I am annoyed that EDF fit it and it doesn't work and then all they say is it will work sometime in the future complete waste of space 

[sandspider]

On 15/05/2018 at 07:36, clakk said:

Good call ,my kitchen lights are LED ,replaced GU10,s 2 years ago and my security light is 8w LED,S but it,s predecessor was a 500w meter speed spinner all the lamps are the same around the house L.E.D or low energy bulbs <free from the freebies website>.A bit of common sense saves a lot of dosh atb

 

What's the freebies website you're referring to, please? I have a lot of spotlight bulbs that I'd like to replace with LEDs (dimmable for preference) but the cost of them in big numbers is surprisingly high...

 

Thanks.

[clakk]

Freestuff uk.,there are or were Philips if theyre still on there .Lasted 4 years so far ,the blurb says so may 1000, hours and i,m a believer after such a long time atb

[sandspider]

Thanks. Had a look, but couldn't find any. I'll keep my eyes open. Free is the right price!