Medical records to be free from May 25th

[phaedra1106]

From May 25th under the GDPR in most cases you should be able to obtain your medical records free of charge,

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/gps-as-data-controllers

See the box marked "Key Changes Under GDPR"

[panoma1]

Interesting to see how GP's get around this...so they can charge us SGC/FAC applicants for supplying our relevant medical records to the police firearms departments?....if we choose to obtain the information from them, for free...........and do it ourselves?

[JohnfromUK]

This is very interesting.  I am undergoing SGC renewal with West Mercia at present.  Although I have no (and have never had any) relevant medical conditions (as per the list in the guidance notes supplied with my form), I have received a letter from my Doctors surgery requesting a substantial fee for supplying medical records - with a caveat that this is not a Doctors recommendation on suitability etc.

BASC's advice has been not to pay this.  I have followed their advice.

The guidance notes say (and I quote);

If you have disclosed (and I have not) a relevant medical condition the police may ask you to obtain a medical report from your GP/specialist. You are expected to meet the cost if a fee is charged for this.

Where no relevant medical conditions are disclosed the police will contact your GP asking if they are aware of any relevant medical conditions or have any concerns about the grant of the firearm or shotgun certificate. Depending on the reply, the police may ask you to obtain a medical report from your GP/specialist. You are expected to meet the cost if a fee is charged for this.

I have never met my current Doctor (they have always sent me to a locum and I have never seen the same locum twice.  I knew my previous Doctor well, but he has now retired).  My understanding is that for a 'nothing to disclose', there should be no need for a report or records, unless my Doctor has already replied with concerns as underlined above (I'm informed he hasn't replied at all - and won't unless he gets his fee).

I am quite happy to go to the surgery after 25th May and request a free copy of my records and send it to West Mercia Firearms ........ but somehow I don't think someone is going to like that!

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[panoma1]

Beware because the above information states no charge to a patient for "access to".......It does not say the surgery will provide hard copies free of charge!

 

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

Interesting to know what access I get, as they shouldn't be allowing me to view their network terminals!  A paper copy is the safest form of access from the privacy point of view.

My understanding of where I am at present is that ;

• my Doctor will not reply unless I pay his fee as a private patient.
• in the absence of a reply, the Firearms dept should (but will they?) take that as a 'no concerns returned' from the Doctor
• the renewal should be granted after a delay due to the above.

We will see.  I have liaised with BASC and followed their advice.

[Salopian]

John,

 What was BASC's advice ?

Or didn't they reply?

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Salopian said:

John,

 What was BASC's advice ?

Or didn't they reply?

They replied very promptly (same day), advising me not to pay the fee because "If you haven’t been diagnosed with or treated for any relevant medical conditions, and haven’t been prescribed any medication that would affect your suitability, a medical report (and therefor, fee) should be necessary"

They also said to get back to them if there were further problems.

[sportsbob]

30 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Beware because the above information states no charge to a patient for "access to".......It does not say the surgery will provide hard copies free of charge!

 

 

 

I have just highlighted this in the other thread , I have to pay £40 for the hard copy.  

If you have access then you could I assume print your own copies ??

[panoma1]

If under the new GDPR 2018 a patient can have access to their medical records within 30 days for free.....it will reveal to the public the GP's as grasping money grabbers, if they try to then charge for a printout?....and under the worst case scenario....how much can they charge for a printout? How much is a printed page of A4 worth?

Speculative I know....but it looks promising! Interesting times!

[sportsbob]

The post above yours gives a clue to this.

[JohnfromUK]

18 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

I have just highlighted this in the other thread , I have to pay £40 for the hard copy.

As things stand at present (as outlined earlier in this thread), I do not believe I should have to pay because I had a 'nothing to declare', and unless that changes in some way, I don't intend to pay.  However, I am awaiting someone's next move with interest.

If I felt that my Doctor in person needed to spend some time on it, I can understand having to pay.  However, for a secretary to print a record, or print a 'nothing to declare' note and send off to the Firearms Dept £40 is excessive for what would be approx 10 minutes of a secretary's time.

Edited May 22, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[sportsbob]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

As things stand at present (as outlined earlier in this thread), I do not believe I should have to pay because I had a 'nothing to declare', and unless that changes in some way, I don't intend to pay.  However, I am awaiting someone's next move with interest.

If I felt that my Doctor needed to spend some time on it, I can understand having to pay.  However, for a secretary to print a record, or print a 'nothing to declare' note and send off to the Firearms Dept £40 is excessive for what would be approx 10 minutes of a secretaries time.

We seem to be getting things mixed up here, this thread is discussing access to Medical records for free and not medical reports to the Police for the purpose of granting or renewing certificates.

[JohnfromUK]

39 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

We seem to be getting things mixed up here, this thread is discussing access to Medical records for free and not medical reports to the Police for the purpose of granting or renewing certificates.

My understanding is that the Firearms dept have requested from the Doctor "factual details of my medical history".  To me - that is my medical records.  I fully accept that if my Doctor has to read all of my records and provide "further information", that would be chargeable.  However  - that is covered separately and in the Firearms Dept. guidance notes, it states;

5. If further information is required the police may request and pay for a further report.

There is detail about what should be provided by the Doctor (including to permitted third parties as a proxy) under the new rules here.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/management/how-to-handle-subject-access-requests-under-the-new-data-regulations/20036599.article

Edited May 22, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[sportsbob]

47 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

My understanding is that the Firearms dept have requested from the Doctor "factual details of my medical history".  To me - that is my medical records.  I fully accept that if my Doctor has to read all of my records and provide "further information", that would be chargeable.  However  - that is covered separately and in the Firearms Dept. guidance notes, it states;

5. If further information is required the police may request and pay for a further report.

There is detail about what should be provided by the Doctor (including to permitted third parties as a proxy) under the new rules here.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/management/how-to-handle-subject-access-requests-under-the-new-data-regulations/20036599.article

John please read the thread title, there is a similar thread regarding doctors and certificates. 

[silver pigeon69]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

This is very interesting.  I am undergoing SGC renewal with West Mercia at present.  Although I have no (and have never had any) relevant medical conditions (as per the list in the guidance notes supplied with my form), I have received a letter from my Doctors surgery requesting a substantial fee for supplying medical records - with a caveat that this is not a Doctors recommendation on suitability etc.

BASC's advice has been not to pay this.  I have followed their advice.

The guidance notes say (and I quote);

If you have disclosed (and I have not) a relevant medical condition the police may ask you to obtain a medical report from your GP/specialist. You are expected to meet the cost if a fee is charged for this.

Where no relevant medical conditions are disclosed the police will contact your GP asking if they are aware of any relevant medical conditions or have any concerns about the grant of the firearm or shotgun certificate. Depending on the reply, the police may ask you to obtain a medical report from your GP/specialist. You are expected to meet the cost if a fee is charged for this.

I have never met my current Doctor (they have always sent me to a locum and I have never seen the same locum twice.  I knew my previous Doctor well, but he has now retired).  My understanding is that for a 'nothing to disclose', there should be no need for a report or records, unless my Doctor has already replied with concerns as underlined above (I'm informed he hasn't replied at all - and won't unless he gets his fee).

I am quite happy to go to the surgery after 25th May and request a free copy of my records and send it to West Mercia Firearms ........ but somehow I don't think someone is going to like that!

 

If you have written this exactly the same as the guidance notes, then it says "Depending on the reply, the police may ask you to obtain a medical report from your GP/specialist"

My understanding of that, is that you can obtain a copy, free of charge after May 25th, and provide that to the Police??

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

John please read the thread title, there is a similar thread regarding doctors and certificates.

My apologies - but I don't see the confusion.

In the link in the post above, it details that medical records should be supplied without charge to the subject and any third party authorised as a proxy, which would presumably include the Firearms dept.  They have asked for "factual details of my medical history".  To me - that is my medical records. 

I believe these should be  available to them (as my proxy) free of charge.

[JohnfromUK]

7 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

My understanding of that, is that you can obtain a copy, free of charge after May 25th, and provide that to the Police??

7 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

If you have written this exactly the same as the guidance notes, then it says "Depending on the reply, the police may ask you to obtain a medical report from your GP/specialist"

 

I did it by 'cut and paste'.  I believe the part about obtaining a copy to be 'correct', although not 100% sure if it is a 'copy' or 'access' (see link below on this).  but have not yet put it to the test.  I may end up having to do so after 25th May.  I hope not.

 

There is detail about what should be provided by the Doctor (including to permitted third parties as a proxy) under the new rules here.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/management/how-to-handle-subject-access-requests-under-the-new-data-regulations/20036599.article

Edited May 22, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[silver pigeon69]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I did it by 'cut and paste'.  I believe the second part to be correct, but have not yet put it to the test.  I may end up having to do so after 25th May.  I hope not.

Keep us informed ?

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

Keep us informed ?

Indeed I will.  One 'good' thing is that West Mercia have asked me to renew early because a switch in the renewal period has led to them seeing a 'hump' in demand when mine is due, so I have applied for renewal early as they requested.  This means that my old certificate has time left to run, so I am not without current cover whilst all of this is sorted out.

It needs to be such that law abiding people renewing are not made to pay heavily for unnecessary paperwork and administration that adds no value.

[bostonmick]

The police want a letter from your doctor stating that they know of no medical reason why you should not be granted firearms. A copy of your records will not suffice. 

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

The police want a letter from your doctor stating that they know of no medical reason why you should not be granted firearms. A copy of your records will not suffice. 

I dont think this is correct? Lincolnshire police have stated that because some applicants have lied on their application when answering the question appertaining to specified medical conditions, they want GP's to confirm the applicants answer! If this is the case then a copy of an individuals medical records will confirm or otherwise whether the applicant has answered truthfully! 

A GP is not required (or qualified) to give opinion on an applicants suitability to hold a gun licence! It is for the chief officer of police to determine an applicants suitability!

[Scully]

It’s worth pointing out that the police have no right to see an applicants entire ‘medical record’, they are only privy to those parts which are relevant to an applicants suitability to hold a ticket. 

[oowee]

Good on you John. Keep us up to speed with how it all goes. Incidentally how early can you apply for renewal? 

[JohnfromUK]

In my case, West Mercia have been changing their system (to 5 years duration?) and foresee a big peak in renewals, so they have written to some holders and asked some people who's usual renewal would occur at that predicted peak time to renew early if possible to spread the renewal demand.  I have agreed to renew early ....... so in fact I have about 18 months before the old one actually expires expires.  Fee is 'pro rata'd,' so it costs the same to renew early.

Normally, I think that they send out renewals about 8 to 12 weeks before the old one expires.

[Wymondley]

3 hours ago, panoma1 said:

I dont think this is correct? Lincolnshire police have stated that because some applicants have lied on their application when answering the question appertaining to specified medical conditions, they want GP's to confirm the applicants answer! If this is the case then a copy of an individuals medical records will confirm or otherwise whether the applicant has answered truthfully! 

A GP is not required (or qualified) to give opinion on an applicants suitability to hold a gun licence! It is for the chief officer of police to determine an applicants suitability!

A Chief  officer of police is not required (or qualified) to interpret medical records, that's why they're asking for a "report" from doctors.

Inspector Dibble is not going to want  to read through pages of waffle about  your bad  back and piles!

We're not  going to get away with just sending (free) medical records.

Plod want someone to blame when something goes wrong involving a licensed firearm, and doctors don't want it to be them, (unless they can be extremely ambiguous and non committal for a fat fee).