Should drugs be decriminalised

[Harnser]

I was at the sharp end for many years dealing with drug users and drug pushers . The biggest differences between users and pushers was that the users to a man wanted to get off the drugs and the pushers to a man wanted to get out of prison so they could start dealing again .

harnser

[bobthedug]

1 hour ago, martyn2233 said:

You mean like alcohol kills more people then cannabis has done.

would the families have lost a child to drugs if cannabis wasn’t available probably yes they would have found drugs anyway 

cannabis is not a gateway drug to other drugs

martyn2233, 

Study published today seems to suggest otherwise-

• Study is first clear evidence that cannabis is gateway to cocaine and heroin
• Teen marijuana smokers are 37 times more likely to be hooked on nicotine
• Findings from Bristol University provide authoritative support for those warning against the liberalisation of drugs laws
  
  
   
• Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4582548/Proof-cannabis-DOES-lead-teenagers-harder-drugs.html#ixzz5H5RCRdbh 
  Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[bostonmick]

48 minutes ago, JDog said:

Bostonmick

Your quote was out of order.

No more than the original post supporting the legalisation of these substances that have and still continue to devastate so many lives. In my opinion which I am fully entitled to those who support drugs are as bad as those peddling it and taking it. As I said in an earlier post if you have had first hand experience of the harm these things do you may not be so casual about it. 

[martyn2233]

33 minutes ago, bobthedug said:

martyn2233, 

Study published today seems to suggest otherwise-

• Study is first clear evidence that cannabis is gateway to cocaine and heroin
• Teen marijuana smokers are 37 times more likely to be hooked on nicotine
• Findings from Bristol University provide authoritative support for those warning against the liberalisation of drugs laws
  
  
   
• Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4582548/Proof-cannabis-DOES-lead-teenagers-harder-drugs.html#ixzz5H5RCRdbh 
  Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

The assumptions being made in this article are spurious at best. First of all, the vast majority of people who smoke cannabis smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol first. So if you want to target so-called "gateway" drugs, they would be nicotine and alcohol which are both legal. People who eventually go on to use drugs are more likely have hereditary issues like alcoholics. They have a genetic predisposition to become addicted and seek out mind altering substances. I think this study was deliberately misinterpreted to support the anti-marijuana belief of the authors. Marijuana is much less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes.

[bostonmick]

10 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

Marijuana is much less dangerous than alcohol and cigarettes.

What do you base this statement on. 

[martyn2233]

4 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

What do you base this statement on. 

Professor NUTT

the former U.K government. drugs adviser 

Edited May 31, 2018 by martyn2233

[bostonmick]

6 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

Professor NUTT

the former U.K government. drugs adviser 

Suitable name for him

 

[martyn2233]

1 minute ago, bostonmick said:

Suitable name for him

 

And that’s all you can come up with grow up

[bostonmick]

3 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

And that’s all you can come up with grow up

Read earlier posts I have seen first hand the effects of drugs. I don't care what the bleeding  hearts say. I will repeat go and see for yourself the effects of these harmless substances. Volunteer to help in the drug rehab sector. 

[bostonmick]

50 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

Professor NUTT

the former U.K government. drugs adviser 

You may also want to read up on your Prof NUTT. He has a large financial stake in one of the largest drug companies. Also he clearly stated that cannabis was dangerous. His support for legalising drugs I suppose had nothing to do with dividends from his investment in the industry that would benefit from such a change. 

[ferguson_tom]

Problem with legalising drugs is it normalizes it. You can see from the Opiod Epidemic in America where opium based drugs were prescribed as freely as sweets it has opened the door to thousands/millions of people who would never have considered it before.

Also its all very well saying legalise it to stop crime and help addicts get off the drugs but as an addict if the current risks involved in buying and taking illegal drugs isnt enough to make you want to quit how on earth will offering cheaper and safer drugs help people?

Edited May 31, 2018 by ferguson_tom

[Mungler]

There are degrees of legalisation and decriminalisation and certainly legalising heroin isn't going to be a great idea because it is just so addictive and so damaging. That being said, there's plenty of people that actively search it out as it is (i.e. in its illegal form) and choose to ruin their own lives - they did that on their own.

I don't know what the answer is, but my view is based on the sheer quantity of weekend recreational drug users and who don't end up like Zammo or mugging their mums to get some weed or an E on a Friday night. Those people are spending money with hardened criminals and I think that that should be regulated and taxed like crazy. Prior to cannabis legalisation in the US 60% of the Cali cartel's income was from cannabis and they were servicing huge demand despite cannabis (then) being illegal in the states.

I do worry about kids and drugs and 25 seems a fair legalisation age. Indeed, they could legalise heroin for the over 25's tomorrow and it won't make the slightest difference to me because just as I choose not to eat my cornflakes with a bottle of vodka, I've no interest in dabbling in heroin; that's free choice for you.

 

[JDog]

3 hours ago, bostonmick said:

No more than the original post supporting the legalisation of these substances that have and still continue to devastate so many lives. In my opinion which I am fully entitled to those who support drugs are as bad as those peddling it and taking it. As I said in an earlier post if you have had first hand experience of the harm these things do you may not be so casual about it. 

It was out of order as you have no knowledge of Martin2233's views on drugs. You did say he was a supporter. He has said he is against. 

[JohnfromUK]

I couldn't resist this; in a bizarre twist, Police have a new way of punishing drug dealers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5790991/Officers-Swindon-Wiltshire-confiscated-100-pairs-trainers-drug-dealers.html

This is so typical of today's modern Police force, who have ample time to appear on TV shows (e.g. Police, Camera, Action), post on Facebook and Twitter, but not apparently catch criminals.

[bostonmick]

8 minutes ago, JDog said:

It was out of order as you have no knowledge of Martin2233's views on drugs. You did say he was a supporter. He has said he is against. 

Read it again I said those who support. I did not refer to him specifically. 

[martyn2233]

Interesting that the government says there’s no medical benefits from cannabis why are we the world’s biggest exporter 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/uk-is-worlds-largest-producer-of-legal-cannabis-11278131

[Danger-Mouse]

12 hours ago, henry d said:

Not strictly true, also NZ has confirmed around 30 deaths per year iirc

 

Very little data with those figures. I am pretty sure they will be counting deaths where cannabis was found in the person's system, possibly with other drugs and probably also includes causes of death like driving whilst under the influence of cannabis.

The fact is that deaths caused directly by cannabis, ie overdoses, do not exist because it's impossible to smoke enough of it to kill yourself.

[ClemFandango]

3 hours ago, martyn2233 said:

Interesting that the government says there’s no medical benefits from cannabis why are we the world’s biggest exporter 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/uk-is-worlds-largest-producer-of-legal-cannabis-11278131

because we can grow it and it earns us money? 

6 minutes ago, Danger-Mouse said:

Very little data with those figures. I am pretty sure they will be counting deaths where cannabis was found in the person's system, possibly with other drugs and probably also includes causes of death like driving whilst under the influence of cannabis.

The fact is that deaths caused directly by cannabis, ie overdoses, do not exist because it's impossible to smoke enough of it to kill yourself.

But it is known to cause mental  health problems.

Two guys I went to school with got into cannabis and the whole culture behind it, bright lads but now they are just wasters, vacant, dead behind the eyes stoners. Purely based on the decline I saw in them I wouldn't want it available to anybody. Let alone all of the other evidence that suggests it is harmful. 

 

 

[bostonmick]

There seems to be a lot of experts on here who claim cannabis is harmless. And causes no deaths or ill effects. Just the same speech my waste of space brother used to come out with. This country may grow cannabis in a controlled way export it for research and medicinal purposes to be mixed with other pharmaceutical products. not so people can get off their heads on it. Maybe you can't smoke enough to kill yourself but you can smoke enough to kill others while driving under the influence. 

[martyn2233]

5 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

There seems to be a lot of experts on here who claim cannabis is harmless. And causes no deaths or ill effects. Just the same speech my waste of space brother used to come out with. This country may grow cannabis in a controlled way export it for research and medicinal purposes to be mixed with other pharmaceutical products. not so people can get off their heads on it. Maybe you can't smoke enough to kill yourself but you can smoke enough to kill others while driving under the influence. 

Like alcohol and prescription drugs the list goes on

[bostonmick]

4 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

Like alcohol and prescription drugs the list goes on

So why add to that list. As far as I am concerned alcohol can be banned also. If someone is selfish enough to drive while under the influence of strong prescription drugs then they deserve a spell at her majesties pleasure. 

[henry d]

10 hours ago, Danger-Mouse said:

 

The fact is that deaths caused directly by cannabis, ie overdoses, do not exist because it's impossible to smoke enough of it to kill yourself.

A few years ago when a few states were decriminalising the use of hash the suppliers were going nuts over how to supply it and the big thing was to not have it smokeable. they were removing the phsycoactive substance THC and adding them to sweets/chocolate, not just a wee toke hit per portion but a mess you up for the day portion in a single sweet/chocolate. Not something you want the kiddies getting their hands on I would think, CHECK THESE PUPPIES OUT for their THC content!

[Gordon R]

I don't believe any debate will alter posters minds. There are two definite camps - those who would legalise and those who would not.

For the record - I am opposed to legalisation.

Whilst cannabis might be okay for some, it devastates others lives. I have a relative whose life has been altered for the worse by cannabis and think people are irresponsible when they claim it is harmless.

I would be interested in views as to whether we are talking about all drugs or just some. You could legalise it and tax the hell out of it, but where do members think druggies are going to find the funds for the now legalised, but expensive drugs? Steal? Perish the thought.

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Whilst cannabis might be okay for some, it devastates others lives.

+1

 

10 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I would be interested in views as to whether we are talking about all drugs or just some.

Personally I think the present status quo will remain (i.e. alcohol and tobacco/nicotine products legal, 'rest' illegal) - and I would support that.  I do however understand that alcohol can be a major problem for some and no problem for others, but I don't think you can put that genie back in the bottle.

I would support much tighter legislation of tobacco (and higher pricing), as it seems to harm all. 

As for other nicotine products (and by this I really mean vape), as a means of helping smokers quit they seem to work for many, but there do seem to be questions over long term safety, and the marketing (fancy flavours) does seem to encourage the young to take up the habit, which doesn't seem to be a sensible habit to get into except as an aid to quitting a more harmful habit (smoking).  Not sure how you tackle that one.

[SpringDon]

46 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

<snip>

I would be interested in views as to whether we are talking about all drugs or just some. You could legalise it and tax the hell out of it, but where do members think druggies are going to find the funds for the now legalised, but expensive drugs? Steal? Perish the thought.

All drugs. And free after application and registration for treatment.

The money to come from scrapping the “war” on drugs. (Although one wonders what sort of war has one side squandering billions and the other making record profits)

It is a war that can never be won because the demand is never eliminated. If a (largely) educated population contains a significant number of those demanding drugs, then there is no hope.