Has law and order broken down in this country ?

[Gordon R]

Quote

 Vince— prove it with a Home Office Publication and not a pub gossip statement.....

You can wait 10 years for such a report - if it ever surfaces or is accurate. Try using your own eyes and ears. Some people are in denial.

[walshie]

Would these moped attacks only be true if the Home Office said so? Time to take the blinkers off and face up to how dangerous our world is at the moment. 

[Harnser]

I find it very sad that our police forces are now basically a fire brigade who clear up after a crime has been reported . They don’t protect us and they don’t prevent crime . All the chief constables are interested in is cutting costs . They won’t report or turn up for some minor crimes . A strong firm hand is needed and if necessary a big stick .

harnser

 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

 Vince— prove it with a Home Office Publication and not a pub gossip statement.....

 

There wouldnt be a home office publication on it, if there had been a study on it at all, it wouldnt be published, it would look bad.

What youre actually saying is ,you dont like the 'sound' of it, it sounds a bit anti migrant, a bit  racist.
But if we try to find out what the crime rate is lately for migrants, as opposed to home grown criminals, youre going to struggle to find those figures too.
Trust me Ive tried.

Do you think the crime rate is higher amongst our latest batch of economic migrants/asylum seekers, is it perhaps a 2nd generation thing, where it cant really be quantified ?
Or do you believe the percentages are just average for the population, per capita ?

All you can really go on is what you read in the papers, who either choose, or have been told to not mention the racial profile or status of suspects and captured offenders.
And if not in the papers (for whatever reason) listen to what the people in your immediate areas experiences are, maybe even down the pub ?

Not convinced ?
Ill give you an example, look at the list of names of the people stabbed and shot in the shocking upturn in violence in London this year.
A disproportionately high percentage of the victims were of African origin, now we dont know who the perps were, they either havnt been caught, or the names and ethnicities have rarely been released,
But talk to people who live there, and they will tell you, the African youth gangs are at war, and dragging anybody they can into it.
But we cant really talk about it like that can we? And no one wants to see a report that confirms anything of the sort, it looks bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43640475

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, AVB said:

What’s that got to do with being mugged? He got mugged because he was wearing a Rolex not because he was driving a 4x4! 

hello, you maybe right AVB but i dont think they would have gone for a driver with a 10 year old mini wearing a timex, i would say they planned this robbery, not so long ago i got up at 2 am only to see out the front kitchen windows 2 teenagers on a monkey bike come round the back of a builders house eyeing up his £20,000 motor bike, a quick word to a WPC and they never returned

Edited June 6, 2018 by oldypigeonpopper

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, walshie said:

Would these moped attacks only be true if the Home Office said so? Time to take the blinkers off and face up to how dangerous our world is at the moment. 

+1

I had an argument with a (female) friend of mine the other day, about a woman who was walking home at 4.30 am and who was raped.
I asked what she was doing walking about at that time.
Angry retort, 'She should be able to do what she wants ,at whatever time !'
I replied that even I have to think twice about doing that, and I have half an inkling how to defend myself.
The simple fact is, the streets are not safe, especially in the middle of the night for anyone.

[matone]

1 hour ago, harrycatcat1 said:

For what its worth I agree 100%

Me too!

[Vince Green]

7 hours ago, Jaymo said:

 Vince— prove it with a Home Office Publication and not a pub gossip statement.....

 

 

I don't go in pubs,  why would I?  but the MO is the big give away. Motorcycle bag and phone snatches, plus more violent muggings were virtually unknown in UK seven years ago. It is an "import" from the middle east and Pakistan in particular where it is very common. Although it has always been practiced in Italy to be fair, Naples and Rome in particular.

So you have to ask yourself, what has changed in the last seven years in the UK?

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Vince Green

[JDog]

2 hours ago, pigeon controller said:

My idea is that the Victorians had it right, they built sufficient prisons to hous the required number. No suspended sentences. They put them to work , no play stations etc. The workhouse was there to prevent people starving but no handouts. The Quakers built garden cities in Bournvile, to give the workers some pride in the company. Built hospital complexes which included mental homes and also sanitariums for recovering patients, no bed blocking. They smacked children, at home as well as at school. Hung murderers.

They may have had perversion and prostitutes and drug taking behind closed doors but they outwardly presented themselves to be a well regulated society. 

We seem to have an open door society that allows the minority to rule. LBGT has gone mad, I do not need to know the orientation of an individual , criminals have seemed to rule the prisons. 

Thats my thoughts know doubt I will be corrected as required ?

PC, it is unusual for you to veer away from your normal pigeon shooting topic which leads me to believe that you feel very strongly about this subject.

For what it's worth I agree with you. However I do not have the energy or inclination to do much about it.

[Harnser]

2 hours ago, pigeon controller said:

My idea is that the Victorians had it right, they built sufficient prisons to hous the required number. No suspended sentences. They put them to work , no play stations etc. The workhouse was there to prevent people starving but no handouts. The Quakers built garden cities in Bournvile, to give the workers some pride in the company. Built hospital complexes which included mental homes and also sanitariums for recovering patients, no bed blocking. They smacked children, at home as well as at school. Hung murderers.

They may have had perversion and prostitutes and drug taking behind closed doors but they outwardly presented themselves to be a well regulated society. 

We seem to have an open door society that allows the minority to rule. LBGT has gone mad, I do not need to know the orientation of an individual , criminals have seemed to rule the prisons. 

Thats my thoughts know doubt I will be corrected as required ?

I agree with what you say . I was brought up in a very similar society when people showed respect to each other and had respect for the law . I am sure you would have been brought up in a very similar way .The values we had are unfortunately no longer existent in today’s so called modern society .

harnser

[Westley]

We already have 'Anarchy' on our Roads, looks like we are heading down the same route on the footpaths too  !  

Even in my own Family, if the Grandkids get into any trouble in school, the Parents are straight there to defend them. NOT the way my girls were brought up. Parents seem very reluctant to face hard facts when it comes down to being told their 'little darlings' are in the wrong !  Kids grow up believing that they are 'untouchable'.

[Harnser]

I spent the best part of a day with my wife in Norwich city centre and my wife remarked on the way back to the car that we had not seen a single policeman . This was indeed a scary fact .

harnser

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, Harnser said:

I spent the best part of a day with my wife in Norwich city centre and my wife remarked on the way back to the car that we had not seen a single policeman . This was indeed a scary fact .

harnser

Must be because of the low crime rate in Norwich city centre.

[Westley]

I wonder if the lack of Police has anything to do with the rising street crime then   ?     

[old'un]

Police numbers have fallen dramatically over the last 5 or 10 years, I cannot remember the last time I saw a bobby on the beat apart from big cities like Brum, the criminals know it is taking an average of 15 to 30 minutes to respond to 999 calls and most burglars are in and out in 10 minutes, as others have said, it will get worse.

[timmytree]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

There wouldnt be a home office publication on it, if there had been a study on it at all, it wouldnt be published, it would look bad.

What youre actually saying is ,you dont like the 'sound' of it, it sounds a bit anti migrant, a bit  racist.
But if we try to find out what the crime rate is lately for migrants, as opposed to home grown criminals, youre going to struggle to find those figures too.
Trust me Ive tried.

Do you think the crime rate is higher amongst our latest batch of economic migrants/asylum seekers, is it perhaps a 2nd generation thing, where it cant really be quantified ?
Or do you believe the percentages are just average for the population, per capita ?

All you can really go on is what you read in the papers, who either choose, or have been told to not mention the racial profile or status of suspects and captured offenders.
And if not in the papers (for whatever reason) listen to what the people in your immediate areas experiences are, maybe even down the pub ?

Not convinced ?
Ill give you an example, look at the list of names of the people stabbed and shot in the shocking upturn in violence in London this year.
A disproportionately high percentage of the victims were of African origin, now we dont know who the perps were, they either havnt been caught, or the names and ethnicities have rarely been released,
But talk to people who live there, and they will tell you, the African youth gangs are at war, and dragging anybody they can into it.
But we cant really talk about it like that can we? And no one wants to see a report that confirms anything of the sort, it looks bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43640475

I looked up the figures for London crime and compared those figures with the figures for the population of London.

One minority, the black minority makes up less than 20% of the population but is involved in 80% of crime involving weapons and violence.

Telling the truth isn't being a racist, thats something those at Westminster would do well to learn.

[Jaymo]

19 minutes ago, old'un said:

Must be because of the low crime rate in Norwich city centre.

There were two on foot patrol this morning making their way into Chapelfield, accompanied by the wailing siren of a Patrol Car attending too

Regarding the claims that all Moped gangs are or foreign decent that absolute BS and you know it, agreed it does seem to be a possible colour lead affair but then if you look at the demographics of London then you will know that certain boroughs are more diverse than others.

A  non British name doesn’t mean your not second or third gen and there are many many ‘white’ gangs too ( oh yes, they do also get reported in the ‘rags’ too) 

We used to go up to Croydon and Streatham in the 80’s and it had it problems then so don’t start spouting off that it’s only one type....

Am I defending the actions of these gangs? God no- nothing gives me greater pleasure than seeing each rider falling off his machine or getting nicked but facts gained from “he says” or your Daily rag isn’t exactly paint8ng the. True picture- or do you really follow like sheep all that you read

I don’t want to enter into the same old arguements, as it’s always the same seven or eight of you on here expressing your slightly warped ( of course in my opinion) views and woe betide anyone should ever try and counter you.

Funny enough I rather like PW but although it’s an ‘off topic’  section I’m beginning to to take a bit of different view of it all.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Jaymo

[stumfelter]

At the end of the day it all comes down to morals. If your brought up by parents who have none what chance is there?

[Westward]

4 minutes ago, old'un said:

Police numbers have fallen dramatically over the last 5 or 10 years, I cannot remember the last time I saw a bobby on the beat apart from big cities like Brum, the criminals know it is taking an average of 15 to 30 minutes to respond to 999 calls and most burglars are in and out in 10 minutes, as others have said, it will get worse.

Police numbers have fallen over the last 5 -10 but there are still almost twice as many serving officers as there were around 1970 and also there are about 10 times as many non-uniform staff (whom the police refer to as "civilian" staff. Presumably part of the paramilitary image the police like to cultivate for themselves).

The police began withdrawing the "Bobby on the Beat" in 1963 without consulting the public and from which they evolved themselves into the impersonal and almost totally detached response force we see today. No one over the age of 60 or so can comprehend how anyone would think modern policing methods could possibly be a deterrent to those with criminal intent.

[pigeon controller]

9 minutes ago, stumfelter said:

At the end of the day it all comes down to morals. If your brought up by parents who have none what chance is there?

My son is a teacher in an city school and tries to motivate pupils to learn and when asks what they want to be the answer is " I'm going to be drug dealer" they earn £3,000 a week and drive fast cars???? These are the role models that streetwise kids see not footballers or pop stars.

[stumfelter]

Exactly my point. Morals are the real fibre that holds society together and without them we have no future.....

[old'un]

With each generation crime seems to-be getting worse, is it real or perceived?

I can remember my dad saying to me when I was in my 20s (the 70s) “it was never this bad when I was a young man” I now find myself saying the same thing.

[JohnfromUK]

Public money is in short supply. 

The country has vast debts (brought about by rash borrowing and spending in the past) - and as interest rates rise (as they surely will at some stage), the interest due on these debts will rise.  It is already slightly larger (£39 bn) as against the Public Order and Safety budget (£34 bn).  Hence all public services (Police, Defence, Health, Prison, Justice) are under pressure to spend less.  They don't like this, so one way they can pressurise the public and hence MPs, Government etc.) into giving them more money is to make the public 'feel the pinch'. - and blame the cuts.

In my view the police need to step up their act, accept there isn't a money tree, and politicians and the courts, judges need to back them up.

Just a personal view.

[Harnser]

7 minutes ago, old'un said:

With each generation crime seems to-be getting worse, is it real or perceived?

I can remember my dad saying to me when I was in my 20s (the 70s) “it was never this bad when I was a young man” I now find myself saying the same thing.

And generations down the road will be saying the same thing and wondering why they are living in a lawless hinterland. It will only take a couple of labour governments to get us there .

harnser.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Harnser

[besty57]

23 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Public money is in short supply. 

The country has vast debts (brought about by rash borrowing and spending in the past) - and as interest rates rise (as they surely will at some stage), the interest due on these debts will rise.  It is already slightly larger (£39 bn) as against the Public Order and Safety budget (£34 bn).  Hence all public services (Police, Defence, Health, Prison, Justice) are under pressure to spend less.  They don't like this, so one way they can pressurise the public and hence MPs, Government etc.) into giving them more money is to make the public 'feel the pinch'. - and blame the cuts.

In my view the police need to step up their act, accept there isn't a money tree, and politicians and the courts, judges need to back them up.

Just a personal view.

Maybe putting a stop to the billions we give in so called international aid .would help,

Just a thought,