Has law and order broken down in this country ?

[RockySpears]

2 hours ago, Harnser said:

It wouldn’t help 1 iota taxing mopeds or putting restrictions on them . This scum steal them and flount the law anyhow .they don’t give a toss about anything or anybody .

harnser

  Yes, but the point being - Guns -  Because bad people do bad things, the Government punishes the innocent.

  Let's see them do the same to those with "legitimate" mopeds and see what the papers have to say about it,

 

RS

[henry d]

21 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I think a high proportion of the issue is that whilst us oldies were brought up to respect or get a punished, younger kids and those brought up abroad have not had the same dicipline instilled into them.

So is it our fault that we didn`t teach our children, and in turn their children respect? Is it using electronic babysitters rather than talking to each other? How do you get the genie back in the bottle?

[oldypigeonpopper]

15 hours ago, Harnser said:

It wouldn’t help 1 iota taxing mopeds or putting restrictions on them . This scum steal them and flount the law anyhow .they don’t give a toss about anything or anybody .

harnser

hello, well said harnser

[Dave-G]

29 minutes ago, henry d said:

So is it our fault that we didn`t teach our children, and in turn their children respect? Is it using electronic babysitters rather than talking to each other? How do you get the genie back in the bottle?

Ha, I'll blame the schools and universities for teaching our kids they don't have to obey elders - but the likes of Merkel, Blair and Abbot for striving every which way they can to import as many ungratefull brats as possible. I should add the thought that EU has likely dictated anti authority rebellion as an undercurrent of their educational curriculum.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, its a shame you cannot enjoy a evening out in such a place like the beautiful town of Stratford upon Avon, Cameron Whelan RIP.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

So is it our fault that we didn`t teach our children, and in turn their children respect? Is it using electronic babysitters rather than talking to each other? How do you get the genie back in the bottle?

Yes it is our fault, but I didnt bring my kids up like that, and I wasnt bought up like that.
Guess what, myself and my children have respect for themselves and others, we practice 'do as you would be done by' and I believe we know the difference between right and wrong.
We gravitate towards like minded people, and try to help others achieve the same, despite growing up in an environment where this wasnt always practiced amongst our peers.
 I was bought up in a 'rough' area, as were my kids.
But having self respect ,and knowing (and teaching) right from wrong, is its own reward.

The problem with todays society is not many people have self respect, and if you dont have that, how on earth can you respect others?
Their role models are vacuous pop stars, 'models, rap artists who preach about being 'tuff'  and footballers who flaunt wealth.
People who quite possibly have no real self respect beyond their bank balance.
The media publicise these 'stars' dangling the carrot that 'it could be you'
So yes ,it is 'our' fault for letting society get like this in the first place, there was a time when fame and fortune took blood sweat and tears, you had to work to achieve it, not just drop your keks and get someone to film it, or kick a ball around and get half a million quid a week.

How do you put the genie back ?
Can it even be put back?
You need to start with the media, social and otherwise, stop promoting violent rap and grime videos/ songs.
Stop giving a mouthpiece to non entities like the kardashians and 20 year old footballers.
Put citizenship back on the agenda, make it a compulsory course for young people, who do not go straight from education to work.
There are too many kids these days who cant do basic things like cook a meal, or clean up after themselves.
They have no self respect, so no discipline.
Bring that that for a start, or the downward spiral toward the police state will continue.

[Harnser]

Over the years we have seen more and more single parent familys. Young girls getting pregnant and bringing up kids on their own . Children need the male influence in their lives and this not happening. Kids start to get out of hand and the mother is unable to cope or carnt be bothered to try . I am reading that kids are starting school in nappies and don’t know how to wipe their own back sides .good parenting or not . 

Kids are running wild and feral because of the lack of the male influence in their lives . They see the parent living of the state and think it’s normal and that they should go down the same path as they grow older . I don’t know what the answer is but there does seem to be lots of benefits out there that these people can claim . There’s an old saying “there’s the needy and the greedy “and I think the lazey. We have to stop the greedy and the lazey .

Harnser

[old man]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Yes it is our fault, but I didnt bring my kids up like that, and I wasnt bought up like that.
Guess what, myself and my children have respect for themselves and others, we practice 'do as you would be done by' and I believe we know the difference between right and wrong.
We gravitate towards like minded people, and try to help others achieve the same, despite growing up in an environment where this wasnt always practiced amongst our peers.
 I was bought up in a 'rough' area, as were my kids.
But having self respect ,and knowing (and teaching) right from wrong, is its own reward.

The problem with todays society is not many people have self respect, and if you dont have that, how on earth can you respect others?
Their role models are vacuous pop stars, 'models, rap artists who preach about being 'tuff'  and footballers who flaunt wealth.
People who quite possibly have no real self respect beyond their bank balance.
The media publicise these 'stars' dangling the carrot that 'it could be you'
So yes ,it is 'our' fault for letting society get like this in the first place, there was a time when fame and fortune took blood sweat and tears, you had to work to achieve it, not just drop your keks and get someone to film it, or kick a ball around and get half a million quid a week.

How do you put the genie back ?
Can it even be put back?
You need to start with the media, social and otherwise, stop promoting violent rap and grime videos/ songs.
Stop giving a mouthpiece to non entities like the kardashians and 20 year old footballers.
Put citizenship back on the agenda, make it a compulsory course for young people, who do not go straight from education to work.
There are too many kids these days who cant do basic things like cook a meal, or clean up after themselves.
They have no self respect, so no discipline.
Bring that that for a start, or the downward spiral toward the police state will continue.

Sadly, correct IMHO.

[walshie]

Parents are the ultimate role model. Sadly in this society everyone seems to want other people to do their parenting for them. 

[Harnser]

30 minutes ago, walshie said:

Parents are the ultimate role model. Sadly in this society everyone seems to want other people to do their parenting for them. 

You hit the nail on the head .

harnser

[Yellow Bear]

41 minutes ago, walshie said:

Sadly in this society everyone seems to want other people to do their parenting for them. 

and then complain bitterly and threaten violence and to sue when they do.

[Retsdon]

Sign Up Now

 

 

"Failure is not a single, cataclysmic event. You don't fail overnight. Instead, failure is a few errors in judgment, repeated every single day." —Jim Rohn

Societies' failures, in no particular order.

1) Social acceptance of single parent families.

2) Mass immigration

3) Doing away with corporal punishment in schools.

4) Doing away with formal religious teaching.

5) A massive relative fall in pay for unskilled labour.

6) Victimhood as a legitimate form of self-identity.

7) Catastrophically incompetent political leadership

? Doing away with compulsory sport in schools.

9) Doing away with single gender secondary schools.

10) The demise of genuine patriotism.

Apologies for the emjois. Don't know where they came from or how to get rid of them.

?

 

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Sign Up Now

 

 

"Failure is not a single, cataclysmic event. You don't fail overnight. Instead, failure is a few errors in judgment, repeated every single day." —Jim Rohn

Societies' failures, in no particular order.

1) Social acceptance of single parent families. While I can understand that there are many issues regarding single parent families, I believe that stigmatising them...or even worse, the offspring, by making it socially unacceptable is abhorrent in my opinion. I know many such parents and offspring, whom through no fault of their own have found themselves without one partner or parent.  

2) Mass immigration I don't mind immigration, but uncontrolled mass immigration doesn't appear to benefit society but appears to cause mass resentment.

3) Doing away with corporal punishment in schools. I was the recipient of such punishment at school and wouldn't accept anyone striking my kids. It did nothing to deter my fear of being caught. 

4) Doing away with formal religious teaching. Mmmm.....my juries out on this one; I regard any form of 'formal' religious teaching as indoctrination, which I despise and mistrust. 

5) A massive relative fall in pay for unskilled labour. I can agree with this one. Not everyone is capable of achieving the skills or qualifications to attract a decent living wage, and i dont believe this should be regarded as what it actually turns out to be....a demeaning blow to anyones self esteem. 

6) Victimhood as a legitimate form of self-identity. This is increasing on a day to day basis it would seem. It creates the chip that permeates a belief that the state owes you something...it doesn't. 

7) Catastrophically incompetent political leadership While I dont' believe political leadership to be easy, and acknowledge that we're all only human, those in power as it were, chose to be there of their own free will; they owe it to everyone to get it right. Statesmen/stateswomen seem to be increasingly thin on the ground; what we seem to attract is a plethora of people intent on disregarding what is going on around them or incapable of reacting logically. The worst of them are in it merely for their own financial benefit.  

? Doing away with compulsory sport in schools. I wasn't aware sports was optional.

9) Doing away with single gender secondary schools. Again, I wasn't aware such a thing ever existed, nor that they had been done away with. Growing up through the teens is hard enough without being stigmatised or singled out for not being 'straight'. I would be angry beyond belief if one of my kids was singled out in any such manner. 

10) The demise of genuine patriotism. I'm not sure what you regard as 'genuine' patriotism. I'm very proud to be English, but not to the detriment of other nations. American patriotism is welded to a religious ( I get the impression of predominantly white christian ) fervour also, which I think many regard as 'genuine', but which I find quite unsettling. 

Apologies for the emjois. Don't know where they came from or how to get rid of them.

?

 

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Scully

[ClemFandango]

3 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Sign Up Now

 

 

"Failure is not a single, cataclysmic event. You don't fail overnight. Instead, failure is a few errors in judgment, repeated every single day." —Jim Rohn

Societies' failures, in no particular order.

1) Social acceptance of single parent families.

2) Mass immigration

3) Doing away with corporal punishment in schools.

4) Doing away with formal religious teaching.

5) A massive relative fall in pay for unskilled labour.

6) Victimhood as a legitimate form of self-identity.

7) Catastrophically incompetent political leadership

? Doing away with compulsory sport in schools.

9) Doing away with single gender secondary schools.

10) The demise of genuine patriotism.

Apologies for the emjois. Don't know where they came from or how to get rid of them.

?

 

I like how you started that post off with a quote. Almost makes it seem clever. 

[Harnser]

5 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Sign Up Now

 

 

"Failure is not a single, cataclysmic event. You don't fail overnight. Instead, failure is a few errors in judgment, repeated every single day." —Jim Rohn

Societies' failures, in no particular order.

1) Social acceptance of single parent families.

2) Mass immigration

3) Doing away with corporal punishment in schools.

4) Doing away with formal religious teaching.

5) A massive relative fall in pay for unskilled labour.

6) Victimhood as a legitimate form of self-identity.

7) Catastrophically incompetent political leadership

? Doing away with compulsory sport in schools.

9) Doing away with single gender secondary schools.

10) The demise of genuine patriotism.

Apologies for the emjois. Don't know where they came from or how to get rid of them.

?

 

I agree .

harnser 

[TriBsa]

1 hour ago, Harnser said:

I agree .

harnser 

But the glaring omission from the list, for me, is society allowing itself to be hijacked by a few politically correct liberals who have forced their agenda on the many to the detriment of society.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Harnser said:

I agree .

harnser 

That doesn’t surprise me. Have you even thought through any of the ‘reasons’ in Retsdons post?

Are you really suggesting one of the reasons for the breakdown in law and order is that ‘single gender secondary schools’ have been ‘done away with’? Really? Male only schools and female only schools? What would that solve?

Or does he in fact mean those of mixed gender, or those unsure of their gender ? 

Formal religious indoctrination is one of the root causes of terrorism I believe. 

How do you propose to ensure the end of single parenthood? Legislation making it illegal to separate? 

Some strange proposals; I’ll be interested in either your answers or those of Retsdon.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Scully

[100milesaway]

On 06/06/2018 at 15:01, pigeon controller said:

My idea is that the Victorians had it right, they built sufficient prisons to hous the required number. No suspended sentences. They put them to work , no play stations etc. The workhouse was there to prevent people starving but no handouts. The Quakers built garden cities in Bournvile, to give the workers some pride in the company. Built hospital complexes which included mental homes and also sanitariums for recovering patients, no bed blocking. They smacked children, at home as well as at school. Hung murderers.

They may have had perversion and prostitutes and drug taking behind closed doors but they outwardly presented themselves to be a well regulated society. 

We seem to have an open door society that allows the minority to rule. LBGT has gone mad, I do not need to know the orientation of an individual , criminals have seemed to rule the prisons. 

Thats my thoughts know doubt I will be corrected as required ?

Is the correct answer.    from Auntie.

 

 

[Retsdon]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Male only schools and female only schools? What would that solve?

https://www.care.com/c/stories/5373/single-sex-schools-the-pros-and-cons/en-gb/

There are persuasive arguments on both sides. I personally think that single-gender schools put kids under less pressure - particularly boys, who mature later than girls.

4 hours ago, Scully said:

Formal religious indoctrination is one of the root causes of terrorism I believe.

Political Islam is not formal religion. It's an ideology that uses the language of religion to further what are very political and secular social goals.

 

4 hours ago, Scully said:

How do you propose to ensure the end of single parenthood?

It's not possible. But there are countless studies that have been done on measures such as academic achievement in school, substance abuse, criminal behaviour, perceived happiness, etc which pretty much all show that, overall, for a number of reasons children brought up in a single-parent environment are, by a wide margin, far more likely to find themselves in trouble than are their peers who grew up in a traditional two parent family. That's not to stigmatize anyone, it's just stating the evidence. Consequently it's logical that single-parenthood should be discouraged and conversely two-parent families encouraged.

On the topic of corporal punishment, I'm probably ambivalent. I never hit my own kids, in fact to be honest, the whole concept of 'punishment' is completely alien. It never happens in our house. That said, my reason for including it in the list is that, for adolescent males, I think for the most part a stick is  cleaner and more humane than many of the modern alternatives. I can remember being caned at school. Waiting was almost worse than the actual deed, But when it was over, you got to walk out with your head up and your slate clean again. And that's where I think corporal punishment scored. You never had to apologize to anyone, you never had to admit and repent, and you never had to grovel. You just had to take your shots without squeaking. These days, you have to sit down and 'discuss' your behaviour.. You have to  admit  your sins and in all likelihood apologize to someone or other. Whatever you did will be put on your record and no doubt reviewed -  and so on and so forth. The whole process is a long draw out process of humiliation. And for adolescent boys whose egos are fragile, ithat has to be a horrible experience. So it's no wonder that so many relieve the humiliation in the only way they can, which  is to turn the whole thing into a cynical game - and that cynicism then spills over into their relationship with society in general. Just my thoughts...

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Retsdon

[Scully]

58 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

https://www.care.com/c/stories/5373/single-sex-schools-the-pros-and-cons/en-gb/

There are persuasive arguments on both sides. I personally think that single-gender schools put kids under less pressure - particularly boys, who mature later than girls.

Political Islam is not formal religion. It's an ideology that uses the language of religion to further what are very political and secular social goals.

 

It's not possible. But there are countless studies that have been done on measures such as academic achievement in school, substance abuse, criminal behaviour, perceived happiness, etc which pretty much all show that, overall, for a number of reasons children brought up in a single-parent environment are, by a wide margin, far more likely to find themselves in trouble than are their peers who grew up in a traditional two parent family. That's not to stigmatize anyone, it's just stating the evidence. Consequently it's logical that single-parenthood should be discouraged and conversely two-parent families encouraged.

On the topic of corporal punishment, I'm probably ambivalent. I never hit my own kids, in fact to be honest, the whole concept of 'punishment' is completely alien. It never happens in our house. That said, my reason for including it in the list is that, for adolescent males, I think for the most part a stick is  cleaner and more humane than many of the modern alternatives. I can remember being caned at school. Waiting was almost worse than the actual deed, But when it was over, you got to walk out with your head up and your slate clean again. And that's where I think corporal punishment scored. You never had to apologize to anyone, you never had to admit and repent, and you never had to grovel. You just had to take your shots without squeaking. These days, you have to sit down and 'discuss' your behaviour.. You have to  admit  your sins and in all likelihood apologize to someone or other. Whatever you did will be put on your record and no doubt reviewed -  and so on and so forth. The whole process is a long draw out process of humiliation. And for adolescent boys whose egos are fragile, ithat has to be a horrible experience. So it's no wonder that so many relieve the humiliation in the only way they can, which  is to turn the whole thing into a cynical game - and that cynicism then spills over into their relationship with society in general. Just my thoughts...

 

Personally I don’t agree with any of the above, but it doesn’t matter as from what I can gather, none of it is achievable anyhow. 

What do you regard as formal religion or genuine patriotism? 

[Rewulf]

I see they caught a moped robber the other day , 14 years old ,7 phones in an hour before they caught him.

Bailed to the local social services until his parents can be found to take him.

Can't reveal his identity,blah,blah.

But the worst bit for him ? The judge has banned him from riding or being a passenger on mopeds ! Well, that's certainly put the kibosh on his criminal enterprise hasn't it .

You couldn't make it up.

[Gordon R]

Quote

But the glaring omission from the list, for me, is society allowing itself to be hijacked by a few politically correct liberals who have forced their agenda on the many to the detriment of society.

The most telling point of all.

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

I can remember being caned at school. Waiting was almost worse than the actual deed, But when it was over, you got to walk out with your head up and your slate clean again. And that's where I think corporal punishment scored. You never had to apologize to anyone, you never had to admit and repent, and you never had to grovel. You just had to take your shots without squeaking.

+1

I think it taught us to respect authority.  It was administered infrequently, both at school and at home, but there is no doubt it was both a deterrent, and there was a lot to be said for taking your punishment and 'clearing the air'.  In my case, it was an effective deterrent (again both at home and at school) and I have never had any feelings that it did harm to me, or anyone else I knew of.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

+1

I think it taught us to respect authority.  It was administered infrequently, both at school and at home, but there is no doubt it was both a deterrent, and there was a lot to be said for taking your punishment and 'clearing the air'.  In my case, it was an effective deterrent (again both at home and at school) and I have never had any feelings that it did harm to me, or anyone else I knew of.

Strange...all it did for me was create a burning resentment for authority. 

[JohnfromUK]

Different people take it different ways, and I think that also depends on all sorts of factors.  In my case from an early age, serious misbehaviour could lead to a 'smack'.  It wasn't frequent, and was only administered after (probably more than one) fair warning.

Later at school, it wasn't frequent, but the cane was used in cases of serious misbehaviour.  As far as I know it was operated by most schools in my school years  Certainly all three schools I attended used it, and I know some of my contemporaries at other schools were similar.  I cannot see why any punishment for an 'offence' of which you know you were guilty should be resented.  You did wrong - and in doing so accepted the risk of being caught and duly punished if caught.  It was all part of growing up.

The only reason I can think for it to cause resentment is if you get punished for something of which you weren't guilty - and in that instance it is obviously wrong.  On occasions I can remember I think being caught 'red handed' led to it being 'a fair cop', and punishment followed.