Savage WSM??

[wymberley]

Thank you, Devon & Cornwall Firearms as efficient as ever.

[Dekers]

2 hours ago, wymberley said:

Thank you, Devon & Cornwall Firearms as efficient as ever.

I actually did some work at D&C Police HQ around 30 years ago, it was on a great site just off the motorway…....seems things may have changed! 

[wymberley]

38 minutes ago, Dekers said:

I actually did some work at D&C Police HQ around 30 years ago, it was on a great site just off the motorway…....seems things may have changed! 

No, they're still there. When I came back home in '88 I had a bit of a set to with the FEO who was the local bobby and about to retire. I said I'd tell him why I wanted my SGC renewed if he understood that I didn't have to give a reason. In that case you won't get it, he replied. So I said that I and BASC would see him and his Chief Constable in court. I think he saw his pension going down the Swanny so saw reason. Later he asked me for some advice which helped him out. Ever since - and our little set to never went outside of my four walls and he's long retired -  all of the firearms staff have always been superb.

Edited October 19, 2018 by wymberley

[wymberley]

On 18/10/2018 at 18:51, beanieboy said:

I'm not convinced that bedding the action of a rimfire makes much difference......others no doubt will disagree. I have always found rimfires to be inherently accurate.....the little 17's in particular. The HMR I traded in against the WSM was the most accurate rifle I have ever owned...0.5" at 100 yards in the right conditions, so it was with some trepidation that I made the decision to go for the WSM. Must say though, I have been pleasantly surprised. The CZ HMR was. imo, a better quality rifle, but the WSM is almost as accurate and definitely hits much harder......wind drift is also much reduced. I just wish CZ made a WSM.....

Yep, quite right. They're piller bedded and the action/barrel slid into ther new laminate thumbhole as sweet as a nut with the barrel straight down the middle and nicely floating. I got home with 500 round and just one teensy weensy problem. To be honest, it was such a nice day I really went for the drive and secondly to pick up the ammo not expecting the stock to have arrived. Well, it had and it hadn't, Edgar Bros didn't bother putting the trigger guard in the box.

[wymberley]

Bore sighted and ready to run the barrel in:

Another offer I couldn't refuse:

[beanieboy]

Is it threaded?.....doesn't seem to be.

[wymberley]

No, this will be used at about the same ranges as the 22 Hornet which is not moderated either and causes no problems.

[wymberley]

Think I'm going to like this. Unfortunately, because of a painful health problem, I've got no further than half shooting the barrel in. In doing this, in became obvious that if you accept the bolt design for what it is and just get on with it, there is no problem. Having said that, it's easier for me as the only other rifle I now have is the falling block 22 Hornet so I'm not going to get confused as to which bolt I'm working. However, there's a slight problem with the rifle/scope interface which needs resolving before I can do a final zero and accuracy check. While running the barrel in, I ignored the moderately gusting wind and just concentrated on getting the rounds down. Had to pack it in half way through as it threw it down, but a quick check with the range finder before I legged it gave 125 yards with just under a 1" group for the last five rounds. The RFD finished the job off while having a look at the scope mount so I'm not quite sure whether there's been any improvement on that yet. According to the forecast, Monday might just see the scope problem sorted and then wednesday for the final zero.

The big question is, though, what is this calibre capable of? I'm slowing down now so I got it with the intention of having just the one rifle. My rate of fire is such that I can afford to feed it. Our rabbit population has crashed and even if it recovers, it will not be as previously by the time I call it quits. So, we're into fewer longer range rabbit, corvids and fox. The first two are a given, but what about fox?160 ftlbs in the engine room from a 22 WMR was always my limit at 100 ish yards. That bullet has more authority than a .172" pill weighing in at 20g so I figure 200 ftlbs may be a better option. This gives in theory some 175 yards which is greater than (now) 100% of all my shots at fox. Dependent upon accuracy, the 25g Winchester offering is better again.

Rather than PM the one member who might know, I thought I'd leave it open and ask if anyone has heard any whispers about the 25g options arriving over here anytime soon?

[Dekers]

1" at 125yards isn't shabby, plenty good enough for most things.   To be honest I can do a chunk better than that at 100 with my HMR and WMR but it does sound fair.  Always good to hear some real life experiences!

Still a relatively unknown commodity for me the 17WSM, and why isn't it taking off in the US or UK?

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Dekers

[wymberley]

17 minutes ago, Dekers said:

1" at 125yards isn't shabby, plenty good enough for most things.   To be honest I can do a chunk better than that at 100 with my HMR and WMR but it does sound fair.  Always good to hear some real life experiences!

Still a relatively unknown commodity for me the 17WSM, and why isn't it taking off in the US or UK?

 

Although the shots were deliberate and aimed, I wasn't really trying with the weather not ideal, just wanted to get the rounds down the barrel which was dragging on with the cleaning in between. That was just 20 shots from new, so I'll be a tad choked if that doesn't close up somewhat especially as I'm going for a 135 yard zero.

I think the initial problems the calibre experienced on launch might just answer your question - the grape was well and truly soured. I also think that your "real life experiences" has a lot going for it. I don't need telling that some can and do use a 22-250 or 243 to its full capability on fox, but I've often wondered what the result would be if a comprehensive survey with honest answers was carried out into the average distance foxes were shot at night with a lamp, or now, NV. I have a sneaking suspicion how much we'd all be surprised at just how big that distance below 200 yards would be.

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Although the shots were deliberate and aimed, I wasn't really trying with the weather not ideal, just wanted to get the rounds down the barrel which was dragging on with the cleaning in between. That was just 20 shots from new, so I'll be a tad choked if that doesn't close up somewhat especially as I'm going for a 135 yard zero.

I think the initial problems the calibre experienced on launch might just answer your question - the grape was well and truly soured. I also think that your "real life experiences" has a lot going for it. I don't need telling that some can and do use a 22-250 or 243 to its full capability on fox, but I've often wondered what the result would be if a comprehensive survey with honest answers was carried out into the average distance foxes were shot at night with a lamp, or now, NV. I have a sneaking suspicion how much we'd all be surprised at just how big that distance below 200 yards would be.

Thats a very good point I do not mind saying at all that 90% are bellow 100m and the vast majority will be 40m to 60m. No need for extended range when you can bring them in. I have a bait tree at 145 m and that is generally the max I will shoot them at. If we can't bring them in it's usually that they are a long way off or not interested. I can count on one hand the number shot over 180m in a year. 

[Dekers]

39 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Although the shots were deliberate and aimed, I wasn't really trying with the weather not ideal, just wanted to get the rounds down the barrel which was dragging on with the cleaning in between. That was just 20 shots from new, so I'll be a tad choked if that doesn't close up somewhat especially as I'm going for a 135 yard zero.

I think the initial problems the calibre experienced on launch might just answer your question - the grape was well and truly soured. I also think that your "real life experiences" has a lot going for it. I don't need telling that some can and do use a 22-250 or 243 to its full capability on fox, but I've often wondered what the result would be if a comprehensive survey with honest answers was carried out into the average distance foxes were shot at night with a lamp, or now, NV. I have a sneaking suspicion how much we'd all be surprised at just how big that distance below 200 yards would be.

I rarely need to shoot fox at 200 yards in daylight let alone at night.    I shoot on all manor of land but I also shoot a lot of back garden fox, many schools as well, took 4 fox out of a school in Central London on Thursday with the HMR.

Yes, I use the CF for fox, but personally I have taken far more with rimfires than centrefires.

Speaking personally again, I take far more under 100 yards than over!

[bornfree]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Although the shots were deliberate and aimed, I wasn't really trying with the weather not ideal, just wanted to get the rounds down the barrel which was dragging on with the cleaning in between. That was just 20 shots from new, so I'll be a tad choked if that doesn't close up somewhat especially as I'm going for a 135 yard zero.

I think the initial problems the calibre experienced on launch might just answer your question - the grape was well and truly soured. I also think that your "real life experiences" has a lot going for it. I don't need telling that some can and do use a 22-250 or 243 to its full capability on fox, but I've often wondered what the result would be if a comprehensive survey with honest answers was carried out into the average distance foxes were shot at night with a lamp, or now, NV. I have a sneaking suspicion how much we'd all be surprised at just how big that distance below 200 yards would be.

95% of my foxes are under 100yards but I still think a 223 is the best tool for the job.

[wymberley]

13 minutes ago, bornfree said:

95% of my foxes are under 100yards but I still think a 223 is the best tool for the job.

When the Estate took the venison "in house" I swapped the 243 for a 223 and the fox still fell down. Having watched my oppo with his, I later swapped the 223 for a 22 Hornet  and the fox still fell down. I appreciate that I'm taking a gamble, but with the lack of rabbit the 22 LR went shortly after I got the HMR. Now with the WSM, the HMR is on the RFD's for sale rack. If all turns out as I hope, the Hornet will follow the HMR. What's that they say about the man with just one gun? With a bit of luck I'll be able to emulate him.

[bornfree]

16 minutes ago, wymberley said:

When the Estate took the venison "in house" I swapped the 243 for a 223 and the fox still fell down. Having watched my oppo with his, I later swapped the 223 for a 22 Hornet  and the fox still fell down. I appreciate that I'm taking a gamble, but with the lack of rabbit the 22 LR went shortly after I got the HMR. Now with the WSM, the HMR is on the RFD's for sale rack. If all turns out as I hope, the Hornet will follow the HMR. What's that they say about the man with just one gun? With a bit of luck I'll be able to emulate him.

I had a year with a 22Wmr and I found it underpowered for foxes most needing a back up shot. After changing to a 223 it's drop on the spot for 95% of foxes and although they are vermin they still deserve a quick kill.

[Dekers]

11 hours ago, bornfree said:

I had a year with a 22Wmr and I found it underpowered for foxes most needing a back up shot. After changing to a 223 it's drop on the spot for 95% of foxes and although they are vermin they still deserve a quick kill.

Most needing a backup shot...with a WMR?????????????????

And 95% of your fox are UNDER 100yards, what experience do you have?   The WMR is excellent for me and in the circa 14 years I have had a HMR so is that.  I had 4 on Thursday with the HMR and they were all dead before they hit the floor.  ALL my .22LR were specifically conditioned for Fox before AOLQ turned up and that to does the job just fine in the right circumstances!

The WMR in NOT underpowered for fox at anything like sensible distances in the right hands!

Edited December 9, 2018 by Dekers
Edited when I noticed 95% under 100yards from earlier post.

[bornfree]

1 minute ago, Dekers said:

Most needing a backup shot...with a WMR?????????????????

I have no idea what distance you are shooting the fox or what experience you have, but the WMR is excellent for me and in the circa 14 years I have had a HMR so is that.  I had 4 on Thursday with the HMR and they were all dead before they hit the floor.  ALL my .22LR were specifically conditioned for Fox before AOLQ turned up and that to does the job just fine in the right circumstances!

The WMR in NOT underpowered for fox at anything like sensible distances in the right hands!

Cannot agree to that not enough stopping power

[Dekers]

6 minutes ago, bornfree said:

Cannot agree to that not enough stopping power

Funny how all mine fall down dead and yours don't?!

Even the Ultra conservative and Risk Averse Home Office are happy to condition HMR and WMR for Fox and even .22lr in the right circumstances, but they don't work for you!

Edited December 8, 2018 by Dekers

[bornfree]

The ones hit with a 223 do

 

The wmr is a good rabbit and hare round but nothing bigger.

Edited December 8, 2018 by bornfree

[Dekers]

1 minute ago, bornfree said:

The ones hit with a 223 do

Apparently 95% according to you, I have a better success rate than that with rimfires.

You stick with what you need, I select the most appropriate rifle/calibre for each job, and most commonly for me that will be one of my rimfires for fox!

[Dekers]

11 minutes ago, bornfree said:

The ones hit with a 223 do

 

The wmr is a good rabbit and hare round but nothing bigger.

Where on earth do you aim at your quarry, many rabbit fall to 12ft lb air rifles, even a few hare, but you need a WMR at circa 320ft lb!

[bornfree]

3 minutes ago, Dekers said:

Where on earth do you aim at your quarry, many rabbit fall to 12ft lb air rifles, even a few hare, but you need a WMR at circa 320ft lb!

Yes dead is dead

[wymberley]

4 minutes ago, Dekers said:

Most needing a backup shot...with a WMR?????????????????

I have no idea what distance you are shooting the fox or what experience you have, but the WMR is excellent for me and in the circa 14 years I have had a HMR so is that.  I had 4 on Thursday with the HMR and they were all dead before they hit the floor.  ALL my .22LR were specifically conditioned for Fox before AOLQ turned up and that to does the job just fine in the right circumstances!

The WMR in NOT underpowered for fox at anything like sensible distances in the right hands!

While waiting for my German licences to come through I went out with the forstmeister and saw what he did with his WMR. On my return to the UK that was the first rifle I bought. Yep, I concede that back then the 50g Federal and the 40g RWS rounds were not those that we see today - the latter was just a tad under 40 ft lbs under the ME of the new WSM at 362 ft lbs. At a sensible 100 yards max' whatever fox you put down stayed down.

[bornfree]

Well got to go now as I've got a goose killing fox to sort out. And it won't be with a rimmy. 22 centerfire is the fox calibre.

[wymberley]

Damn!

I see a temporary Plan B coming on - but there's hope. Cracking day on Monday so I headed out in the dead calm. At the end of the day I've decided for now to put the S&B scope on the 22 Hornet and the set up is much more comfortable than the original and I'm looking forward to shooting it.

The problem is me (90%) and a bit of the WSM (10%). The rifle stock is very uncomfortable but I think I've got this sorted now and my problem is the very recently diagnosed after 7 weeks in purgatory, rheumatoid arthritis. Finally got a hospital appointment a week ago and left with a bucket of steroids and strict instructions of what to do with them. They are working and now some 90% of the time my fingers are hitting the keys on the board that I'm pointing them at, although it's not too conducive to good shooting. This leaves me short of a decent scope for the WSM so that nice Mr Utting is sending me a Hawke Frontier 5-30x50 TMX.

The problem is not helped my me not liking to shim (bodge) a scope in its ring. This to an extent that I'm quite happy to pay to do it right. The Hawke will take a good few days to arrive and the farm is now a quagmire so time for a breather after the passed few weeks.

PHOTO Ignore the 2 white patches as they relate to a target hidden by the middle one. Other than to mark its location ignore also the top target but also note the two black patches.

The bottom target has 3 shots at the top which are my opening gambit at 135 yards and I lose one to the left. Go to middle target and come down 3 clicks - and lose one to the right - another 3 clicks and that'll do but now lost one to the left again. Good enough, sorted, final group back on the bottom target - again one lost right. It's not the gun, it's not tha ammo, it's my fingers so as said, there's hope. That ring of shots in a dead calm is a classic barrel harmonics result which I'm working on but stuck now until the scope arrives.

I took aim at the top target (135 yards) after removing a 0.010" shim which was installed when doing a "first" zero check at 60 yards (135 is then zero). To my surprise the fall of shot was 1" below the A4 - 10" low. Moved target to 100 yards which produced the bottom patch and then wound up 30 clicks and got the top patch some 3" higher as now expected. Had to then put the shim back. Just goes to show, if you're going to do it, then you don't need much. The arithmatic is easy and it works.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by wymberley