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scolopax

Led up the garden path....

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    from the BBC article quoting the leave campaign Arron Banks:

    Leave.EU, which was backed by then UKIP leader Nigel Farage, lost out to Vote Leave in the battle to become the official Leave campaign in the 2016 EU referendum.

    It ran a "disruptive" campaign instead, Mr Banks told the committee, adding: "We were not above using alternative methods to punch home our message or lead people up the garden path if we had to."

    Mr Wigmore, Leave.EU's director of communications, said "the piece of advice that we got, right from the beginning, was remember referendums are not about facts, it's about emotion and you have got to tap into that emotion".

    He said the campaign had aimed to "make fun" of journalists and his role in it had been that of an "agent provocateur

     

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    Good stuff. 

    You don't have to fight clean. When the gloves come off you do what's necessary to win the fight.

    I mean let's face it, the Remain campaign ably assisted by the likes of Tony Blair, Barrack Obama and the BBC weren't exactly forthcoming with the truth were they?

    Now, if we could just have a conservative prime minister in charge of negotiations we could have this all sewn up by teatime. 

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    Indeed. Politics is a dirty game; how many times have politicians and election campaigners from all parties lied to the public to achieve their agenda? 

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    Anyone these days who believes politicians promises will end up being disappointed.

    They (all parties, flavours) are only really interested in winning the next election - and so will say/do virtually anything in order to get that win.  On an individual basis, they are greedy for power, money and fame.

    Not a pleasant bunch at all ........

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    I simply did not vote last election or the previous one and never will vote again in my eyes all parties are just as bad as each other & only have there own interests at heart.

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    Ive only ever voted once.
    Never voted for a political party, never supported a political party, never really followed an political ideology to the letter either.
    Left and right wing are all part of the same bird.

    The only time I voted, was to leave in the referendum.
    Not because someone told me to, or swayed my opinion with promises, I did it because I had long held the view that the EU were treating us with contempt and stacking the cards against us.
    I did it because I believe its a step in the right (no pun honest ?) direction to putting some sense and stability back into this country.
    The screams and cries of derision, false statements and attempts to derail the process, and will, of the majority, by the likes of the EU , soros , Gina Miller and Soubrey, only confirm that I made the right decision.
    So the media can paint Arron Banks as the hooded claw for all I care, D day is coming, and its either a decent Brexit that we voted for, or a betrayal and false government promise that we are more than used to.
    In which case be prepared for some political upheaval the like of which many of us have never seen.

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    37 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

    Ive only ever voted once.
    Never voted for a political party, never supported a political party, never really followed an political ideology to the letter either.
    Left and right wing are all part of the same bird.

    The only time I voted, was to leave in the referendum.
    Not because someone told me to, or swayed my opinion with promises, I did it because I had long held the view that the EU were treating us with contempt and stacking the cards against us.
    I did it because I believe its a step in the right (no pun honest ?) direction to putting some sense and stability back into this country.
    The screams and cries of derision, false statements and attempts to derail the process, and will, of the majority, by the likes of the EU , soros , Gina Miller and Soubrey, only confirm that I made the right decision.
    So the media can paint Arron Banks as the hooded claw for all I care, D day is coming, and its either a decent Brexit that we voted for, or a betrayal and false government promise that we are more than used to.
    In which case be prepared for some political upheaval the like of which many of us have never seen.

    Some great reading , and oh so true

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    37 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

    Ive only ever voted once.
    Never voted for a political party, never supported a political party, never really followed an political ideology to the letter either.
    Left and right wing are all part of the same bird.

    The only time I voted, was to leave in the referendum.
    Not because someone told me to, or swayed my opinion with promises, I did it because I had long held the view that the EU were treating us with contempt and stacking the cards against us.
    I did it because I believe its a step in the right (no pun honest ?) direction to putting some sense and stability back into this country.
    The screams and cries of derision, false statements and attempts to derail the process, and will, of the majority, by the likes of the EU , soros , Gina Miller and Soubrey, only confirm that I made the right decision.
    So the media can paint Arron Banks as the hooded claw for all I care, D day is coming, and its either a decent Brexit that we voted for, or a betrayal and false government promise that we are more than used to.
    In which case be prepared for some political upheaval the like of which many of us have never seen.

    Can’t argue with much of that.

    I voted out because I believe the EU to be undemocratic and fundamentally corrupt.

    I like being part of Europe, and enjoy the better aspects of its culture, but have no desire to be ruled by European politicians whom I have no method of voting for or against. 

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    I always liked Farage's description of the people that fill parliament, government and the EU as "career politicians" by which he means they lack any real experience of life and as a result, simply don't see things the same way as people who live normal lives. Theresa May has created a wholly avoidable shambles of the Brexit negotiations simply because neither she nor anyone in the government has the first idea how to conduct detailed negotiations. They all operate like a bunch of clueless time warp students, talking endlessly in abstracts and concepts whilst simply not comprehending that the only real issue on the table for Brussels is MONEY, specifically our money.

    Any experienced business person would have known that from the start and used it as a stick to beat Barnier with. Instead, the buffoon Davis has gone in there, cap in hand, trying to please everyone and, predictably, ended up pleasing no one.

    The only small consolation is that Corbyn and his bunch of mentally challenged stooges would have been 10 times worse.

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    If what Project Fear had said would happen actually had any truth, we would be having power cuts, no food in the shops and all the ATMs shut down by now. The fact that it hasn't destroys any credibility they have now to criticise.

    The UK economy is strong, the FTSE is at record highs and people like Clegg, Blair, Campbell, Cable are appearing more desperate in clinging to what is now seen for what it was a scare campaign to protect their jobs or their aspirations for jobs in the future.

    Look, I have no illusions, Brexit is going to be tough and I'm sure that the EU will do everything in its power to make things as unpleasant as possible. That's exactly the reason we have to leave. The EU is basically not fit for purpose and is becoming more dictatorial, domineering and bullying in its approach. It is also now crumbling

    What ever the price we have to go

    Edited by Vince Green

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    Quote

    ...its either a decent Brexit that we voted for, or a betrayal and false government promise that we are more than used to.

    It's going to be the latter. I stated right after the vote that there was no way the Brexit we were promised, the one our votes were based on; leaving the EU entirely (not a 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, both these terms are designed to mislead) would never be allowed to happen. Too many powerful establishment figures have too much to lose. Besides, our democracy is pretty much an illusion anyway so why folk expected this to be any different this time round I'm not sure?

    It wasn't the answer that was desired, that's why there was such a shock and so much backlash; finger pointing and accusations against those who voted to leave as being xenophobic, racist thickos. I'm really done with voting now and unlikely to bother again in the future, I used to think it was something we should do, if for no other reason than a duty to all those who sacrificed so much in years past, but I feel as if the entire edifice of democracy has been usurped now.

    It wasn't advisory (however, neither was it legally binding). It wasn't a vote to have another vote. It wasn't a vote to let Parliament have a vote. The question was simply this:

    Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    responses to the question to be (to be marked with a single (X)):

    Remain a member of the European Union
    Leave the European Union

    And we were expressly told: "It is time for the British people to have their say," he, David Cameron Prime Minister, said. "It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision."

    Uh-huh...

    Edited by mick miller

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    I was appalled that the committee that Aaron Banks had been asked to appear before was made up 100% of remoaners (including one previously drunk, female hassling MP).

    I am also appalled that the BBC's description of Mrs May's 324 - 298 majority yesterday (i.e. 10% ish) was a vote won by "just scraping through".

    Something has to happen (and soon) to stop these manipulations.

    Edited by Eyefor

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    I'm just glad I am 78 and not 28.    

    This country is going down the tubes.  Read yesterday where a mother is pleased because our failing NHS will 'cure' her 15yrs old son of being addicted to gaming.  What has she been doing for the last 15yrs and doesn't the machine have an off switch.  This is too prevalent in todays society where people are not willing to take responsibility for their actions.

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    34 minutes ago, mick miller said:

     

    Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

    responses to the question to be (to be marked with a single (X)):

    Remain a member of the European Union
    Leave the European Union

    And we were expressly told: "It is time for the British people to have their say," he, David Cameron Prime Minister, said. "It is time to settle this European question in British politics. I say to the British people: this will be your decision."

    Uh-huh...

    Which is why he quit straight afterwards, knowing perhaps in the future, we would be calling him a bare faced liar if he was still prime minister.

    It doesnt matter if they dont deliver the Brexit we voted for, 17.4 million people voted to leave, they arent simply going to say, 'Oh OK then, voting is a waste of time, I suppose we shall just have to accept it'
    Likewise when you hear people say, 'It doesnt matter ,many of the people who voted to leave are old , so theyll be dead soon'
    Apart from being totally disrespectful, its a pipe dream, and it wont work.
     

    17.4 million ,thats enough to swing ANY election, or put a completely different Eurosceptic party into power..
    Like I say , Ive never voted or supported a political movement, but if Brexit isnt delivered properly, I could be motivated to get active.
    And Im pretty certain some of those 17.4 mil are thinking the same way.

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    5 hours ago, poontang said:

    Good stuff. 

    You don't have to fight clean. When the gloves come off you do what's necessary to win the fight.

    I mean let's face it, the Remain campaign ably assisted by the likes of Tony Blair, Barrack Obama and the BBC weren't exactly forthcoming with the truth were they?

    Now, if we could just have a conservative prime minister in charge of negotiations we could have this all sewn up by teatime. 

    Obama’s threat gave the leave campaign a huge boost  ..one thing that this country has never done and that’s cow down to a threat ..

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    33 minutes ago, moose man said:

    Obama’s threat gave the leave campaign a huge boost  ..one thing that this country has never done and that’s cow down to a threat ..

    It was really ill judged that he should try to interfere in another country's referendum. 

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    8 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

    It was really ill judged that he should try to interfere in another country's referendum. 

    An American president interfering in another countries sovereignty ?
    Who'd have thought it ?

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    "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

      Not even Chrchhill thought Democracy was grteat, but he did think it the best system so far.  Our challenge really is to find the next "least worst" form of rule.

      Currently it seems those that have a single ruler, for an extended period of time, that seem to be doing rather well.  For all its faults, China seems to be doing well, how long that continues remains to be seen.  Russia too seems to be in favour with many, Putin is lauded by many for "standing up to the West".  Syria is a prime example of a Western invasion that has been thoroughly repulsed because Russia stepped in to aid a "Democratic country".  Sadly Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen etc etc do not have Democratic regimes, so obviously the West stepped in to save them.

      That went well,

     

    RS

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    1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

    An American president interfering in another countries sovereignty ?
    Who'd have thought it ?

    Well America has always taken the stance of: "We stand for democracy and God help anyone who gets in our way"

    But at least Obama was elected in an approximately democratic fashion.

    Who elected Junker or Tusk or Barnier? Why does the EU need 2 presidents? Why has it proved impossible to successfully audit the EU accounts?

    Mikhail Gorbachev said that he was amazed that these people are trying to re-create the Soviet Union in Europe. I can see exactly what he meant.

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    8 minutes ago, Westward said:

    Well America has always taken the stance of: "We stand for democracy and God help anyone who gets in our way"

    But at least Obama was elected in an approximately democratic fashion.

    Who elected Junker or Tusk or Barnier? Why does the EU need 2 presidents? Why has it proved impossible to successfully audit the EU accounts?

    Mikhail Gorbachev said that he was amazed that these people are trying to re-create the Soviet Union in Europe. I can see exactly what he meant.

    Trying ? Theyve pretty much done it, a socialist dominated, trade protectionist junta, that ignores the concerns of its population, ignores the wishes of the elected leaders of its population, is hell bent on integrating as many 'grateful' 3rd world migrants as it can to bolster its population.
    Not caring what social or economic catastrophes it induces in its path to federalism.
    A gravy train for the elite, and a cattle prod for anyone who steps out of line.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/the-eu-has-destroyed-some-of-our-most-prosperous-industries---an/

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/06/16/how-joining-the-eu-led-to-a-big-decline-in-uk-industry/

    The tragedy is , are we so blind that we couldnt see it creeping up?
    The fact that Junker and the EU can swan onto the G7 stage like a superpower should tell you everything about their aspirations.
    Trade agreement, to regulatory body and political entity, forward to regulatory and political bully, setting nations policy on trade and immigration, the end game, financial then military control, loss of democracy and totalitarianism.
    Welcome to the  Union of Socialist European States, and kiss your identity and freedom goodbye.

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    44 minutes ago, Westward said:

    Who elected Junker or Tusk or Barnier? Why does the EU need 2 presidents? Why has it proved impossible to successfully audit the EU accounts?

    I am always somewhat disgusted that when there is a G7 "Heads of Government" meeting, there are all the actual  'heads', Macron, Trudeau, Trump, May, Merkel etc., plus Barmier, Juncker and Christine LaGuarde.  They are not 'heads', they are in effect the equivalent of Civil Servants.

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    8 hours ago, poontang said:

    Good stuff. 

    You don't have to fight clean. When the gloves come off you do what's necessary to win the fight.

    I mean let's face it, the Remain campaign ably assisted by the likes of Tony Blair, Barrack Obama and the BBC weren't exactly forthcoming with the truth were they?

    Now, if we could just have a conservative prime minister in charge of negotiations we could have this all sewn up by teatime. 

    And the millions spent on leaflets to all households telling us why we must stay in Europe.

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    26 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

    I am always somewhat disgusted that when there is a G7 "Heads of Government" meeting, there are all the actual  'heads', Macron, Trudeau, Trump, May, Merkel etc., plus Barmier, Juncker and Christine LaGuarde.  They are not 'heads', they are in effect the equivalent of Civil Servants.

    I too find that very strange. Exactly who are they representing if all the Eu G7 heads of state are there?

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    Westwood asks

    Who elected Junker Tusk or Barnier?

     

    Call it the Illuminai, call it The New World Order, Call it the Fourth Reich,  Call it The Bilderberg Group,  the effect is the same, at its heart,  the EU is a quasi secret society 

    Edited by Vince Green

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