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Led up the garden path....


scolopax
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44 minutes ago, anser2 said:

You seem to have forgotten we are still inside the EU, so cant expect a crash, yet. 

Boris will say what ever he has to to get into No 10. Remember his 2 articles writen for the newspapers one pro and one anti EU. Have writen them he just waited to see which way public opinion swung and published the one that would open the door to no 10. 

Hmmm. Not sure quite what you're talking about!

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I'm not sure either.

Everyone from Mark "We're doomed" Carney downwards was predicting instant economic catastrophe the moment we voted leave at the referendum. Carney still talks down the economy at every possible opportunity and contrives odd and unverifiable nonsense stats like every household is £900 a year worse off because of Brexit.

As for Boris, It was the figure of £350 million that was wrongly called a lie.

It's immaterial that it was stated by Boris.

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I think he maybe referring to the fact that after 2 years we have no agreement with the EU, and need to have that initial one in place by October.

There is no clear UK position, as the country is split and therefore weakened as we fight each other rather than a common enemy.

The chances of a good outcome are very slim, and one outcome would be a move to the WTO trade tariffs, which will mean that prices will go up for EU goods. There will be upsides for some, but the land of milk and honey for all is generations away.

 

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1 minute ago, old man said:

I wonder if all of the MP's doing their upmost to stop us leaving the EU remember the next elections could stop the gravy train?

You mean like Anna Turley for Redcar, Paul Williams for Stockton S. and Anna Soubry for Broxtowe (Notts) all with constituencies that voted overwhelmingly to leave, amongst plenty of others who have decided the people who voted them in, are not entitled to have  their wishes carried out ?
As an MP you serve the people of your constituency, not yourself.
At least thats what theyre supposed to do.

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13 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

As an MP you serve the people of your constituency, not yourself.
At least thats what theyre supposed to do.

Perhaps someone might like to tell them?  The vast majority are there purely for themselves - and they have no intention of changing that.

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On 14/06/2018 at 16:47, motty said:

Hmmm. Not sure quite what you're talking about!

IT was all over the news during the Brexit vote. Quote " Source Sky News, Times, Guardian and others.

Boris Johnson said Britain’s continued membership of the EU would be a “boon for the world and for Europe” in an unpublished newspaper column in which he wrestles with his decision to back or oppose Brexit.

In a Telegraph article, written days before a published version in which he backed leaving, Johnson wrote of the EU: “This is a market on our doorstep, ready for further exploitation by British firms. The membership fee seems rather small for all that access. Why are we so determined to turn our back on it?”

 

And 

When Johnson sat down to write his endorsement for the Brexit campaign, he also famously wrote another article arguing the complete opposition. He would later defend this as a "thought experiment" used to clarify his position.

 

However, others, including his own friends and allies are more sceptical.

They point to pictures of Johnson looking shell-shocked alongside fellow Leave campaigners once the referendum result came in, which led many people to believe that the result was not what the former London mayor had hoped for.

In fact shortly after these pictures were taken, friends of Johnson told Business Insider that they believed he had never really wanted to leave the EU, with one long-term ally saying that the decision to back the Leave campaign had been purely about his career.

Shortly after the result, Johnson embarked on his own bid for the leadership, only to abandon it when he failed to win enough support from colleagues. With Theresa May's own leadership now in trouble, many suspect he could be playing the same game again.

 

How can anyone believe a word this man says let alone tust him.

 

Edited by anser2
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23 minutes ago, anser2 said:

IT was all over the news during the Brexit vote. Quote " Source Sky News, Times, Guardian and others.

Boris Johnson said Britain’s continued membership of the EU would be a “boon for the world and for Europe” in an unpublished newspaper column in which he wrestles with his decision to back or oppose Brexit.

In a Telegraph article, written days before a published version in which he backed leaving, Johnson wrote of the EU: “This is a market on our doorstep, ready for further exploitation by British firms. The membership fee seems rather small for all that access. Why are we so determined to turn our back on it?”

 

And 

When Johnson sat down to write his endorsement for the Brexit campaign, he also famously wrote another article arguing the complete opposition. He would later defend this as a "thought experiment" used to clarify his position.

 

However, others, including his own friends and allies are more sceptical.

They point to pictures of Johnson looking shell-shocked alongside fellow Leave campaigners once the referendum result came in, which led many people to believe that the result was not what the former London mayor had hoped for.

In fact shortly after these pictures were taken, friends of Johnson told Business Insider that they believed he had never really wanted to leave the EU, with one long-term ally saying that the decision to back the Leave campaign had been purely about his career.

Shortly after the result, Johnson embarked on his own bid for the leadership, only to abandon it when he failed to win enough support from colleagues. With Theresa May's own leadership now in trouble, many suspect he could be playing the same game again.

 

How can anyone believe a word this man says let alone tust him.

 

I don't really care what Boris thinks, I, like everyone else has a brain and I made my own mind up I want out of the EU, we don't need Boris or anyone else to tell us, we've got the facts and that's enough to reach a decision.

On a separate note, are you ever going to except we are leaving the EU?

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On 14/06/2018 at 09:16, 12gauge82 said:

Spot on, it's just more fake news and shows if that's the biggest hole they could find in the leave campain (despite not even being a part of the official leave campain) there must have been very little wrong with it, it certainly pales in to insignificance compared to dodgy Dave's mass leaflet drop costing more than the entire budget the remain team were allowed to spend on the campaign. 

There literally are no depths the remainiacs (I refer to the ones trying to overturn the referendum, not those who voted remain but except the democratic result) won't sink to, to overturn and subvert democracy, they justify it to themselves because eveyone who voted leave is a thick, bigoted, xenophobic, racist idiot and obviously doesn't know what's best for them, I wish I was as enlightened as them, they are going to rid the world of fascism by being fascists, what enlightened people they are.

^^^ This, totally agree!!

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Quote

How can anyone believe a word this man says let alone tust him.

On that note, how could anyone believe the doom & gloom below...:rolleyes:

Project Fear

Cretin Osbournes Emergency budget
recession
£4k per household
Scotland to leave the UK............possible now with the SNP spitting the dummy out.
Back of the queue
Planes grounded
economic meltdown after ref
the city ceasing to exist
large scale unemployment
bank of england-technical recession
WW3.

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In truth, there was a huge movement to leave the EU long before the likes of Boris started saying whatever drivel it is claimed he said, just as there was long before Osbourne and others started spouting their drivel. The latter only started their scare tactics when they began to realise the leave campaign was a genuine threat to their careers and way of life; until then all were treat with the same kind of derision usually reserved for Farage.

Do remoaners actually believe the vast majority were swayed by anything either side claimed? I had made up my mind many years before; I think my resolve began around the time of the 'save the £' campaign. 

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16 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

On that note, how could anyone believe the doom & gloom below...:rolleyes:

Project Fear

Cretin Osbournes Emergency budget
recession
£4k per household
Scotland to leave the UK............possible now with the SNP spitting the dummy out.
Back of the queue
Planes grounded
economic meltdown after ref
the city ceasing to exist
large scale unemployment
bank of england-technical recession
WW3.

2

Do You live in the real world . You are listing a group of possible future problems dubbed by the leavers, not the remainders as Project Fear.

1. Recession. We are very close to a recession with the worst economic performance of any EU country and barely any growth , plus many firms reducing down sizing and moving to the EU. Last week we were told all UK Land Rover production is moving to the EU.

2.Given the chance Scotland will leave as soon as it can. Did you not see their Chief Minister saying they were going to have a new vote soon on the TV news the other day.

3. £4k lost from household budgets. If this comes to pass its likely to be when we leave the EU. But everyone's household costs have shot through the roof. Food is just not going up by pennies, but often by 50p at a time. Fuel up 30p a litre mainly due to the poor rate of exchange caused by Brexit. Our rate of exchange with the euro has tumbles making everything we buy from them more expensive. 

4.Back of the queue. We are not even in the queue yet.

5. Economic decline. Many Uk firms are experiencing a decline which is increasing a more and more firms are caught up in it.

6. Unemployment.  Employment is still good, but then we are inside the EU , but a number of worrying trends have started to show. £land loss of 2.5K jobs due to the £ exchange rate, Rolls R 4.5K jobs to go , last week alone with a number of other big firms also shedding jobs over the last few months.

7. WW3. Thank god that has not happened, but relations between Russia and China are the worst for many years and the China problem in the South China Sea is a serious threat. Where next s Russia going to put the pressure on . Already grabbed the Crimea and parts of Ukraine and threats over the Baltic States. Russia is a very real problem.

As for the BofE and a technical recession thats covered in 2.

Osborns Emergency budget can hardly happen as he in no longer in government.

Nobody knew what they were voting for at the time of the Brexit vote and the still do no and will not until the deal with the EU is finally done. Then is the time to vote and not for some pie in the sky from Boris and co.

 

4 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Mine around the time a market stall holder in Northumberland was prosecuted for selling bananas by the Pound & not in Kilos...

What a daft point. just as bad as the woman who voted to leave because the EU banned bananas curved

beyond a certain angle. A potty rule and an even more potty reason to put the country to risk. 

17 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't really care what Boris thinks, I, like everyone else has a brain and I made my own mind up I want out of the EU, we don't need Boris or anyone else to tell us, we've got the facts and that's enough to reach a decision.

On a separate note, are you ever going to except we are leaving the EU?

If we have a vote when we understand what the end deal is going to be and the second vote yes. I have no love for the EU and in many ways I dislike it, but I dislike the prospect of living in poverty if we leave much more.

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11 minutes ago, anser2 said:

1. Recession. We are very close to a recession with the worst economic performance of any EU country and barely any growth , plus many firms reducing down sizing and moving to the EU. Last week we were told all UK Land Rover production is moving to the EU.

Not true.  One LandRover model is moving - to make room for a new model

12 minutes ago, anser2 said:

2.Given the chance Scotland will leave as soon as it can. Did you not see their Chief Minister saying they were going to have a new vote soon on the TV news the other day.

Not true.  Opinion polls suggest an independence referendum held now would be 'similar' in outcome to the last one.

13 minutes ago, anser2 said:

3. £4k lost from household budgets. If this comes to pass its likely to be when we leave the EU. But everyone's household costs have shot through the roof. Food is just not going up by pennies, but often by 50p at a time. Fuel up 30p a litre mainly due to the poor rate of exchange caused by Brexit. Our rate of exchange with the euro has tumbles making everything we buy from them more expensive.

Not true.  Inflation is not particularl;y high and fuel price increases have reflected a rise on international oil prices, partly due to Trumps Iran fiasco.

14 minutes ago, anser2 said:

4.Back of the queue. We are not even in the queue yet.

Many have welcomed the idea of deals outside the EU

15 minutes ago, anser2 said:

5. Economic decline. Many Uk firms are experiencing a decline which is increasing a more and more firms are caught up in it.

If true, why have we the best employment for years despite the high immigration?

15 minutes ago, anser2 said:

6. Unemployment.  Employment is still good, but then we are inside the EU , but a number of worrying trends have started to show. £land loss of 2.5K jobs due to the £ exchange rate, Rolls R 4.5K jobs to go , last week alone with a number of other big firms also shedding jobs over the last few months.

Jobs come and go all of the time - employment is at a high level, and we have the lowest unemployment for years

17 minutes ago, anser2 said:

7. WW3. Thank god that has not happened, but relations between Russia and China are the worst for many years and the China problem in the South China Sea is a serious threat. Where next s Russia going to put the pressure on . Already grabbed the Crimea and parts of Ukraine and threats over the Baltic States. Russia is a very real problem.

Russia is a problem; but nowhere near WW3.

19 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Osborns Emergency budget can hardly happen as he in no longer in government.

Strange that his successor, Hammond, says we are doing quite well - and found no need for an extra budget.

 

20 minutes ago, anser2 said:

....... but I dislike the prospect of living in poverty if we leave much more.

You - along with the rest of us will be just fine.  Truth is that there will be some differences, some for the good, some perhaps not so, but life will go on much as it always has.

A FAR greater risk would be a Corbyn/Abbott/MacDonald government;  If you think the economy took a hammering from the referendum outcome, it will be nothing compared to what it would do if they ever got in power!

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1 hour ago, anser2 said:

Fuel up 30p a litre mainly due to the poor rate of exchange caused by Brexit

The following appears to be factually correct:  Pre-Referendum, May 2016; 109.3p per litre, Post-Referendum, May 2018; 126.3p per litre.  17p difference.  But May 2018 was cheaper than in the Mays of 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.

https://www.petrolprices.com/the-price-of-fuel/

From the BBC website (13 June 2018):

"The average price of a litre of fuel in the UK is now around £1.28 for petrol and £1.32 for diesel. "

Even allowing for the most recent increase I still can't see a 30p per litre increase unless you're using figures starting from 9 years ago (May 2009).  

Edited by yod dropper
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48 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

Pre-Referendum, May 2016; 109.3p per litre, Post-Referendum, May 2018; 126.3p per litre.

The reason is pure crude oil prices on the world market.  Nothing to do with Brexit.

Crude Oil May 2016 was $46 a barrel;

Crude Oil May 2018 was $73.50 a barrel. 

That's where you increase has come from - nothing to do with Brexit at all.  These are all priced in US Dollars (as oil is) and so don't cover £/$ rate.  Basically crude oil was near it's lowest for years in 2016, and currently is much higher.

 

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On 14/06/2018 at 16:59, Westward said:

I'm not sure either.

Everyone from Mark "We're doomed" Carney downwards was predicting instant economic catastrophe the moment we voted leave at the referendum. Carney still talks down the economy at every possible opportunity and contrives odd and unverifiable nonsense stats like every household is £900 a year worse off because of Brexit.

As for Boris, It was the figure of £350 million that was wrongly called a lie.

It's immaterial that it was stated by Boris.

Explain to me why we need a Canadian to run our National Bank ??   All of the money we send to the EU regardless of the amount will be within our control. The problem with the money ALLOWED to be returned by the EU was ear marked and only allowed to be spent on what THEY decided on.  There is a difference.

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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

The reason is pure crude oil prices on the world market.  Nothing to do with Brexit.

Crude Oil May 2016 was $46 a barrel;

Crude Oil May 2018 was $73.50 a barrel. 

That's where you increase has come from - nothing to do with Brexit at all.  These are all priced in US Dollars (as oil is) and so don't cover £/$ rate.  Basically crude oil was near it's lowest for years in 2016, and currently is much higher.

 

You seem to have found a reason why it has gone up.  

But I'm trying to work out where the figure of 30p per litre comes from, at best all I can see is 20p per litre.  It clearly hasn't gone up by 30p per litre whatever the cause.  Perhaps it's just a made up figure.

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Just now, yod dropper said:

Perhaps it's just a made up figure.

Very probably; the fact is that crude oil prices, and hence diesel, heating oil and petrol prices move according to the pound currency exchange rate and the basic oil price (which is based on dollars).  Crude oil price is very volatile with world supply/demand - and a bigger variable than the currency exchange rate.

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