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Led up the garden path....


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24 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Explain to me why we need a Canadian to run our National Bank ??   All of the money we send to the EU regardless of the amount will be within our control. The problem with the money ALLOWED to be returned by the EU was ear marked and only allowed to be spent on what THEY decided on.  There is a difference.

Is that repayment dates for the dowry payments that will be in our control?

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3 hours ago, anser2 said:

Do You live in the real world . You are listing a group of possible future problems dubbed by the leavers, not the remainders as Project Fear.

1. Recession. We are very close to a recession with the worst economic performance of any EU country and barely any growth , plus many firms reducing down sizing and moving to the EU. Last week we were told all UK Land Rover production is moving to the EU.

2.Given the chance Scotland will leave as soon as it can. Did you not see their Chief Minister saying they were going to have a new vote soon on the TV news the other day.

3. £4k lost from household budgets. If this comes to pass its likely to be when we leave the EU. But everyone's household costs have shot through the roof. Food is just not going up by pennies, but often by 50p at a time. Fuel up 30p a litre mainly due to the poor rate of exchange caused by Brexit. Our rate of exchange with the euro has tumbles making everything we buy from them more expensive. 

4.Back of the queue. We are not even in the queue yet.

5. Economic decline. Many Uk firms are experiencing a decline which is increasing a more and more firms are caught up in it.

6. Unemployment.  Employment is still good, but then we are inside the EU , but a number of worrying trends have started to show. £land loss of 2.5K jobs due to the £ exchange rate, Rolls R 4.5K jobs to go , last week alone with a number of other big firms also shedding jobs over the last few months.

7. WW3. Thank god that has not happened, but relations between Russia and China are the worst for many years and the China problem in the South China Sea is a serious threat. Where next s Russia going to put the pressure on . Already grabbed the Crimea and parts of Ukraine and threats over the Baltic States. Russia is a very real problem.

As for the BofE and a technical recession thats covered in 2.

Osborns Emergency budget can hardly happen as he in no longer in government.

Nobody knew what they were voting for at the time of the Brexit vote and the still do no and will not until the deal with the EU is finally done. Then is the time to vote and not for some pie in the sky from Boris and co.

 

What a daft point. just as bad as the woman who voted to leave because the EU banned bananas curved

beyond a certain angle. A potty rule and an even more potty reason to put the country to risk. 

If we have a vote when we understand what the end deal is going to be and the second vote yes. I have no love for the EU and in many ways I dislike it, but I dislike the prospect of living in poverty if we leave much more.

It's quite amusing how both sides interpret things according to their own bias...myself included. 

A lot of jobs have been earmarked to be lost recently, such as Poundland, Landrover and House of Fraser, but for various reasons and certainly not all due to Brexit. Poundland indeed due to the pound, but their low profit margins and other factors such as their buying methods were also blamed by those in the know whom were interviewed last week. House of Fraser are closing many stores due to the way we shop nowadays, with internet sales claimed to be the biggest factor, leading many other retailers to worry due to decreased footfall may well threaten their outlets also. There are many other factors to consider.

Wasn't Cameron caught 'off camera' sometime ago stating 'it' wasn't going to be as bad as everyone thought? He can't have been talking about himself because even a recession wouldn't effect his standard of living. 

Osbourne predicted a collapse in the housing market and huge bills for householders if we voted to leave.  It hasn't happened and it's very unlikely to happen, but while we're at it, you're not averse to scare stories yourself by claiming there is a prospect of us living in poverty if ( when) we leave. For quite a few years ( according to official government poverty statistics ) my kids and me were just marginally below the governments official poverty threshold income. I even had an advisor at HSBC say she would like to offer me a mortgage but she had definite misgivings about my capability to pay it back! ? 

 I've been made redundant three times since I started work in 1975....and we've had at least two major recessions since then, and all this time we were in the EU. I'm not worried. 

 

 

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Lead up the garden path? After years of being taken up the back passage by the EU, sanity prevailed and we stand on the threshold of a great opportunity for our country. One alas I fear will be squandered by our treasonous, incompetent and corrupt political elite if the state of play of the current Brexit negotiations  are anything to go by.

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1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

Explain to me why we need a Canadian to run our National Bank ??   All of the money we send to the EU regardless of the amount will be within our control. The problem with the money ALLOWED to be returned by the EU was ear marked and only allowed to be spent on what THEY decided on.  There is a difference.

The same Canadian who worked for the same bank that issued the same "project fear" over us keeping the £ instead of the €!

Any one remember the same "predictions"?? "We would loose the financial hub" etc etc. They even made the same threat that they would move their UK HQ to Germany?.......... We'll they certainly got that one wrong and stayed in London!

Funny thing is, if we had changed to the €, then we would not have had any advantage over the € and the Banks etc would have had no reason to stay in the UK and would have been offered a "Better EU Deal" to move to Germany etc. 

I don't know why or what the reason is behind the Banks infatuation with the EU and the €? Whatever it is, I don't think its beneficial to the UK.

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14 hours ago, Scully said:

In truth, there was a huge movement to leave the EU long before the likes of Boris started saying whatever drivel it is claimed he said, just as there was long before Osbourne and others started spouting their drivel. The latter only started their scare tactics when they began to realise the leave campaign was a genuine threat to their careers and way of life; until then all were treat with the same kind of derision usually reserved for Farage.

Do remoaners actually believe the vast majority were swayed by anything either side claimed? I had made up my mind many years before; I think my resolve began around the time of the 'save the £' campaign. 

With such a narrow majority voting for Brexit it does not take many gullible people to be taken in by the statements of Boris and Co.

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  •  

 JohnyUK.

All land rover production of all models is moving to the EU. There might be a redesign of the factory for electric cars ,but that is not concrete.

 

  Opinion polls suggest an independence referendum held now would be 'similar' in the outcome to the last one. Well you did not Ms Sturgen on the TV the other night them saying she was going to call for an another vote. So It is very true. 

 

 Inflation is not particularly;y high and fuel price increases have reflected a rise on international oil prices, partly due to Trumps Iran fiasco. How can you say that, Go down to your local supermarket and try and buy the same food for a similar price today. You will be sadly disappointed. Never what gloss the government puts on inflation the real figure on living is soaring. My personal shopping bill is up about 20% , so to say prices are not rising steeply is pure rubbish. Ask your wife.

 

Many have welcomed the idea of deals outside the EU but over 40% or our trade is with the EU and it will be very hard to replace that from elsewhere for a very long time. Yes tin pot countries without economies worth trading with or countries like India who will only trade with us if we have free movement of their people. The USA would be great to be a trading partner, but who can trust a word Trump can say and there has been no progress there and anyway even if we get a trading deal its still not trade. Just opening the door to allow us to start trade , but in a market already full it will be very hard to make any inroads.

 

Because we are still inside the EU , though the underlying trend is for much harder trading conditions.

 

Quote "Jobs come and go all of the time - employment is at a high level, and we have the lowest unemployment for years" But we hare now starting to get huge job losses and its not going to stay fine for much longer if we leave the EU.

 

Quote"Russia is a problem; but nowhere near WW3". I never said it was, but world indicators are not promising. How long will N Koria tow the line .  Many were serious worried a few months ago where the dispute with the US was going. Lets hope the peace deal being hammered out with the USA holds if it does not then China will side with the Koreans. Perhaps more serious is China building island bases in the South China Sea.

 

Quote. "Strange that his successor, Hammond, says we are doing quite well  and found no need for an extra budget." What Hammond says and what the remainder of the UK economic community says is very different.

 

Quote "You - along with the rest of us will be just fine."

If you believe that you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Already I have had to cut back on food buying and traveling by car because they are getting beyond my pocket. 

Edited by anser2
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1 hour ago, anser2 said:
  •  

 JohnyUK.

All land rover production of all models is moving to the EU. There might be a redesign of the factory for electric cars ,but that is not concrete.

 

  Opinion polls suggest an independence referendum held now would be 'similar' in the outcome to the last one. Well you did not Ms Sturgen on the TV the other night them saying she was going to call for an another vote. So It is very true. 

 

 Inflation is not particularly;y high and fuel price increases have reflected a rise on international oil prices, partly due to Trumps Iran fiasco. How can you say that, Go down to your local supermarket and try and buy the same food for a similar price today. You will be sadly disappointed. Never what gloss the government puts on inflation the real figure on living is soaring. My personal shopping bill is up about 20% , so to say prices are not rising steeply is pure rubbish. Ask your wife.

 

Many have welcomed the idea of deals outside the EU but over 40% or our trade is with the EU and it will be very hard to replace that from elsewhere for a very long time. Yes tin pot countries without economies worth trading with or countries like India who will only trade with us if we have free movement of their people. The USA would be great to be a trading partner, but who can trust a word Trump can say and there has been no progress there and anyway even if we get a trading deal its still not trade. Just opening the door to allow us to start trade , but in a market already full it will be very hard to make any inroads.

 

Because we are still inside the EU , though the underlying trend is for much harder trading conditions.

 

Quote "Jobs come and go all of the time - employment is at a high level, and we have the lowest unemployment for years" But we hare now starting to get huge job losses and its not going to stay fine for much longer if we leave the EU.

 

Quote"Russia is a problem; but nowhere near WW3". I never said it was, but world indicators are not promising. How long will N Koria tow the line .  Many were serious worried a few months ago where the dispute with the US was going. Lets hope the peace deal being hammered out with the USA holds if it does not then China will side with the Koreans. Perhaps more serious is China building island bases in the South China Sea.

 

Quote. "Strange that his successor, Hammond, says we are doing quite well  and found no need for an extra budget." What Hammond says and what the remainder of the UK economic community says is very different.

 

Quote "You - along with the rest of us will be just fine."

If you believe that you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Already I have had to cut back on food buying and traveling by car because they are getting beyond my pocket. 

You're going slightly mad.

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6 hours ago, anser2 said:

All land rover production of all models is moving to the EU.

That is not what the reports say.  One model only.

6 hours ago, anser2 said:

Well you did not Ms Sturgen on the TV the other night them saying she was going to call for an another vote.

She does that regularly; doesn't mean it will happen ...... or that she would win this time

6 hours ago, anser2 said:

My personal shopping bill is up about 20% , so to say prices are not rising steeply is pure rubbish.

You must shop differently to me.

6 hours ago, anser2 said:

But we hare now starting to get huge job losses and its not going to stay fine for much longer if we leave the EU. 

Unemployment has been falling, despite labour coming in from overseas. Not sure where this IF we leave the EU comes from? We ARE leaving.

6 hours ago, anser2 said:

What Hammond says and what the remainder of the UK economic community says is very different.

Not really so; Both the stock market and the pound are doing just fine, borrowing is just starting to come down ......

To put it in perspective, I actually voted "remain" ........ but remain lost.  So we are therefore leaving - and rightly so.  That is democracy.  If you loose, get over it and start being positive and get on with life. 

I have no time for the "Gina Millers" of this world, who, having lost do their best to disrupt and impede what the majority has chosen.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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9 hours ago, anser2 said:

With such a narrow majority voting for Brexit it does not take many gullible people to be taken in by the statements of Boris and Co.

Well what a turn of events, Mrs May has just announce a further 20 billion or 384 million a week to be spent on the NHS, mostly due to the money no longer going to Brussels, looks like Boris was pretty much spot on after all.

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35 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well what a turn of events, Mrs May has just announce a further 20 billion or 384 million a week to be spent on the NHS, mostly due to the money no longer going to Brussels, looks like Boris was pretty much spot on after all.

If this is true, the remainers will still call him a lier as he only said £350 million. ?

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8 hours ago, motty said:

You're going slightly mad.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. ?

It's funny but the remainers have a new name for those who voted to leave the EU. They call them 'gammons'. A supposed insult aimed at 'white, puffy pink cheeked, old and angry leave voters'. In my minds eye I see Anser as a gammon remainer, I imagine him banging out his responses on his spit speckled keyboard , wide eyed and frothing at the mouth as Beethovens 'Ode to Joy' blasts out in the background, with only the occasional interruption as the Red Cross arrive with his weekly food parcel, courtesy of those lovely fella's at the EU of course!!

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10 hours ago, anser2 said:

With such a narrow majority voting for Brexit it does not take many gullible people to be taken in by the statements of Boris and Co.

You could argue that the other way, I'm convinced that many more would be Brexit voters were intimidated by the force and magnitude of the Project Fear Campaign. I nearly was myself, nobody could have been more pro Brexit than me. However in the weeks before the vote the (false) predictions of catastrophic collapse started getting to me. I started to doubt my own certainty. Could what people like the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Head of the Bank of England were saying be ignored??

In the end the vote went through but I do sincerely believe many more would have voted for Brexit if the project fear lies (and they were lies, massive lies) hadn't scared them off.

To accuse the leave campaign of telling lies is a bit rich compared to what was said, and done, by the remainers.  

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10 hours ago, anser2 said:

With such a narrow majority voting for Brexit it does not take many gullible people to be taken in by the statements of Boris and Co.

But that’s just your opinion; you can’t prove that as factual. You’re making the same assumption as many remoaners; that deceit played a part in the majority voting for leave. 

 Doesn't that work both ways? Based on your logic you have to accept that there will have been those who were swayed to vote stay by the scare tactics of the likes of Osbourne etc. You have to accept it because you’re repeating them despite not being able to claim any of them as fact. 

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4 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

You could argue that the other way, I'm convinced that many more would be Brexit voters were intimidated by the force and magnitude of the Project Fear Campaign. I nearly was myself, nobody could have been more pro Brexit than me. However in the weeks before the vote the (false) predictions of catastrophic collapse started getting to me. I started to doubt my own certainty. Could what people like the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Head of the Bank of England were saying be ignored??

In the end the vote went through but I do sincerely believe many more would have voted for Brexit if the project fear lies (and they were lies, massive lies) hadn't scared them off.

To accuse the leave campaign of telling lies is a bit rich compared to what was said, and done, by the remainers.  

Totally agree!

Even with the Government, All the banks, the whole of the EU, the BBC and the majority of media outlets, the previous American President etc etc all spouting project fear and making it clear that "Remain" was the only option, the majority STILL voted leave!

I honestly believe that if it was an evenly balanced campaign, the majority would have been nearer 70%! 

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27 minutes ago, poontang said:

a gammon remainer

The Daddy of them all must be AC Grayling, his performance on This Week last week was toe curling.  Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo had a field day.  Professor Grayling's anger was apparent.

BBC iPlayer (there will be stuff on youtube etc).  He sets out his stall at 0700 and the interview starts at 0945.  Claims of MPs knowing it was only advisory, that the Russians were behind it, that it should be overturned.  Well worth watching.  Enlightening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0b6v0jv/this-week-14062018

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Quote

I have no time for the "Gina Millers" of this world, who, having lost do their best to disrupt and impede what the majority has chosen.

Totally agree, so many spokes in the wheel disrupting the process, & if we do have a hard brexit they will be looking for others to blame.

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11 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

That is not what the reports say.  One model only.

She does that regularly; doesn't mean it will happen ...... or that she would win this time

You must shop differently to me.

Unemployment has been falling, despite labour coming in from overseas. Not sure where this IF we leave the EU comes from? We ARE leaving.

Not really so; Both the stock market and the pound are doing just fine, borrowing is just starting to come down ......

To put it in perspective, I actually voted "remain" ........ but remain lost.  So we are therefore leaving - and rightly so.  That is democracy.  If you loose, get over it and start being positive and get on with life. 

I have no time for the "Gina Millers" of this world, who, having lost do their best to disrupt and impede what the majority has chosen.

Thats not what the BBC and Sky news say about all land Rover building moving to the EU. 

I Never said it would happen, but the pressure is there and there is a real risk of it happening.

Yes I must. Where do you shop, must be Harrods. Go to any of the major supermarkets and the prices have risen steeply since Brexit. And to deny that is a blatant lie.

Hahahah you must be joking to say the £ is doing fine. Read the reports its well down since Brexit. Or has your eyes become so clouded by Brexit. 

Leavers won , but nobody knew what the effects of Brexit would be on the economy. And nobody will until the final deal is published

Edited by anser2
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14 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Thats not what the BBC and Sky news say about all land Rover building moving to the EU. 

I Never said it would happen, but the pressure is there and there is a real risk of it happening.

Yes I must. Where do you shop, must be Harrods. Go to any of the major supermarkets and the prices have risen steeply since Brexit. And to deny that is a blatant lie.

Hahahah you must be joking to say the £ is doing fine. Read the reports its well down since Brexit. Or has your eyes become so clouded by Brexit. 

Leavers won , but nobody knew what the effects of Brexit would be on the economy. And nobody will until the final deal is published

Oh you edited it before I could reply, I was very interested by your assumption about rational people!

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7 hours ago, Vince Green said:

You could argue that the other way, I'm convinced that many more would be Brexit voters were intimidated by the force and magnitude of the Project Fear Campaign. I nearly was myself, nobody could have been more pro Brexit than me. However in the weeks before the vote the (false) predictions of catastrophic collapse started getting to me. I started to doubt my own certainty. Could what people like the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Head of the Bank of England were saying be ignored??

In the end the vote went through but I do sincerely believe many more would have voted for Brexit if the project fear lies (and they were lies, massive lies) hadn't scared them off.

To accuse the leave campaign of telling lies is a bit rich compared to what was said, and done, by the remainers.  

But Project was a term conned by the Leaver side.

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52 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Thats not what the BBC and Sky news say about all land Rover building moving to the EU.

http://www.cityam.com/287351/jaguar-land-rover-moving-all-discovery-production-slovakia

52 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Yes I must. Where do you shop, must be Harrods. Go to any of the major supermarkets and the prices have risen steeply since Brexit. And to deny that is a blatant lie.

I shop in Morrisons and Aldi mainly.  Many things vary seasonally, but inflation is currently 2.7% against a Bank of England target of 2%

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumerpriceinflation/may2017

52 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Hahahah you must be joking to say the £ is doing fine.

Before referendum $1.42, now - $1.34 - about 6% drop, hardy disastrous and within normal variation.  The pound did drop badly post referendum - because people were worried about the idiotic predictions that were made by Osborne and Carney.  These have proved to be false ...... there was no emergency budget, no economic collapse, - in fact - life goes on pretty much as usual, as it will continue to do.

52 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Leavers won , but nobody knew what the effects of Brexit would be on the economy. And nobody will until the final deal is published

That is true, and that is exactly why I voted to remain.  However, remain LOST, and I now realise that we haven't had the catastrophe predicted ....... actually the stockmarket has done well, the unemployment has fallen, debt has begun to be controlled, manufacturing has continued to invest, and Europe has shown it's true colours as boorish bullies.  Good riddance to them.

52 minutes ago, anser2 said:

Or has your eyes become so clouded by Brexit.

No: My eyes were clouded by the falsehoods promulgated by the remain campaign.  These have been proved blatantly wrong.  Europe (Barmier, Juncker, et al) have proved nothing better than unelected bullies.  I now clearly see that I should have voted leave, and actually, given a little time we are much better shot of the expensive and undemocratic Brussels bureaucracy run largely by and for Germany and France.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

Before referendum $1.42, now - $1.34 - about 6% drop, hardy disastrous and within normal variation.  The pound did drop badly post referendum - because people were worried about the idiotic predictions that were made by Osborne and Carney.  These have proved to be false ...... there was no emergency budget, no economic collapse, - in fact - life goes on pretty much as usual, as it will continue to do.

 

Quoting the £/$ is one thing, but our major day to day trading esp in foodstuffs is with the other ‘27’ Euro holders for which on the eve on the referendum was around the €1.30/£ and now it’s been struggling against technical resistance around the €1.13 to €1.14 mark with the lowest of 1.08, which is lower than the It was in the month after the Dec 08 crash.

This is where many household items have seen an increase, even in those Supermarkets that are Euro derived

 

The biggest thing about all this is this- if your a Brexiteer you see the EU as a devil and are pioneers along with the saviours of our Nation, yet for those who prefer to Remain ( including me) are ( on here at least) , derided for doing so and often called various names along with every statement made ( whether true or suppositions) being lambasted.

End of the day, one lot has their opinion and others, theirs - but coming back to the Leave campaign with its own ‘project fear’ of those posters showing what were Syrian migrants fleeing the fighting at its heaviestto come to Britain, havent seen that materialising either— so both sides played on people’s ‘fears’ ( wonder if the outcome would have been the same if Joe public hadn’t been subject to these sort of things on both sides and actually just had ‘the facts’ of exactly we do / do not benefit from the last forty years of membership- if your local Library etc that says ‘built with EU funding would have been built or would you be happy with the old 60’s building it replaced. This is just the first example along with things like I believe the Eden Project  sprung to mind).

 

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