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Engine ignition wiring old school fire pump


rovercoupe
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Firstly I have to admit I was a clot and have slightly wrecked things here, in my defence I have had a fair few of these pumps and they have all been negative earth so why would things be any different............

so I hooked up a battery and proceeded to fry the wiring and who knows what else. Yeah its a positive earth variation.

it starts and runs just fine (phew) but there is nothing going to the battery in the way of charge and this is where things get real kooky, I think it has a generator thats putting out 6v but its a 12v coil and battery??? The rectifier seems to be off a bike and then there is a load of parts that are related to the coil but I have no idea of what they are or do. 

The plan is to change this over to negative earth and use a alternator in place of the generator and then be able to run aux power off the unit as well as pumping. 

Most of the other units have been super simple but this one has go me stumped, any ideas as to what all these electrical parts are? 

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I don't recognise the bits but my guess is that it cranks at 12v to the coil and runs at 6v to the coil. The bits are what does that part of the electrickery.

The last bit looks like the ceramic resistor kind of thing that's involved in such things.

Not much help but might point you in the right direction (or just complete nonsense)

 

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Does the "generator" have a commutator and brushes? If so, it's a dynamo.

If not, it's an alternator, and looking at the bits that I can recognise - Lucas rectifier, Lucas capacitor, possible zener diode on the aluminium plate - I think that it may be.

My knowledge of alternator equipped bikes is that you have probably fried the diode, but as the rectifier and zener are reckoned to be old technology now, you can replace all the stuff between alternator and battery with a single unit "black box". 

Ebay "bsa rectifier replacement"

If your generator is a dynamo, however, just wait for one of our esteemed Land rover Mk 1 experts to offer their assistance.

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As the engine is running, try hooking up the output leads to a multimeter.

That should tell you whether or not you have any output and whether it is a.c. or dc.

If no output at all, then a new alternator.

If a.c. output, then black box.

If dc, dunno

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Can't tell from your photo.

If the leads come from carbon brushes and a split ring commutator, it is likely to be a dynamo.

If direct from the coils, an alternator.

If you reassemble the generator and apply 12 volts to the leads, a dynamo will act as a motor and spin, an alternator will not.

 

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applied power to the generator and it spins up so it must be a dynamo.

figured out most of the wiring and its some sort of janky bolt on electronic ignition the closest i can find are some american cars from the late 50s, the rectifier is totally gone and if you hook it up it fries the cables. Either black box or swap for alternator is the way forward depending on the ignition outcome. The coil was dead on the secondry winding but no bother I have a spare so tested that and the primary coil is dead so no joy today and will head to the motor factors tomorrow and try and get a new coil and points and will convert it back if the rest of the electrics are shafted. 

Add this to the another ongoing project pile! It was only supposed to take a couple of hours.......

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Back in late 50isearly60is if you brought a new car radio you had to flash two wires of dinamo to the block to change polarite of battery so you could fit radio do any of y0u lads of my age doing that sorry this is no help to you but just thinking about all sort of things we did then.

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Ok, well at least you have found out what type of generator it is!

I'm afraid that the "black boxes" that I was pointing you to won't do the job.

For a dynamo I guess that all you need is a voltage regulator, which, when I last had a dynamo-equipped car, an Austin A35, was a device involving a coil and contact points - still not sure how it worked. There must be an electronic solid-state version of this, but it is outside my experience.

Good luck with the restoration.

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Things have gone from bad to worse, the new coil is producing a pathetic spark straight out of the coil so there is something else going on, to top things off the distributor is a factory electronic ignition and the points will not fit so i need a whole new distributor. 

A evening of research shows its a lucas mg ignition system with a american control unit and a bike charge system, its allmost like it was made from whatever was lying around in the factory!

Time to rip everything out and build a system from scratch then I know what's going on and how it works.

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