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Cylinder pressure....


Bobydazzler
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.....another one for all you seasoned veterans!

Perhaps being a bit thick here but there's something I don't understand.

Topped up a rifle (200cc buddy bottle)....from 90 bar to 200 bar..... from a 7lt 300 bar cylinder approximately 12-15 times now and the cylinder's struggling

to reach 200 bar (reading off the cylinder gauge) It's a brand new cylinder and I think the guy in the dive shop said something about getting more in it next time (?)

First 8-10 refills were no problem but now it reaches around 180-190 okay then run's out of puff before falling a bit short of 200.

I was under the impression from a calculator I found online somewhere that I would achieve upwards of 30-35 refills?

Is this normal? What will happen over more, successive refills.....will the cylinder embark on a downward spiral of top up amounts??

Thanks for any help

Bob

 

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Many thanks fellas

3 slipped discs and hand pumps don't get along ;) (otherwise YES, love being self sufficient)

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, did you check the cylinder guage after filling

Not sure what you mean oldypigeonpopper, gauge sat at about 190-195 when trying to top it up to 200....some slow turning didn't seem to have any effect so turned off at that.

 

Edited by Bobydazzler
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10 minutes ago, Bobydazzler said:

Many thanks fellas

3 slipped discs and hand pumps don't get along (otherwise YES, love being self sufficient)

Not sure what you mean oldypigeonpopper, gauge sat at about 190-195 when trying to top it up to 200....some slow turning didn't seem to have any effect so turned off at that.

 

i was thinking maybe the dive shop did not fill the cylinder enough to get the max fills, quote getting more in next time

Edited by oldypigeonpopper
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You can work out how many fills etc you will get by converting the air in the cylinder into LFG's. Litres of Free Gas.

7 litre cylinder @ 300 bar: 7 x 300= 2100 LFG

So if you rifle needs topping to 200 bar from say 165bar: 35bar x (size of cylinder in rifle (if 2 ltr) 2= 70 LFG

your 7 litre cylinder can be used down to 200 bar so you have 100 bar to use. 100 bar X 7ltr= 700 LFG

therefore 700/70= 10

You will get 10 fills from your 7 litre if you refill your rifle from 165bar to 200 bar. 

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

i was thinking maybe the dive shop did not fill the cylinder enough to get the max fills, quote getting more in next time

If the dive shop fills it to 300 bar, when the cylinder cools it will probably drop to 280-290. We used to fill out 200 bar cylinders to 210-220 and they would settle at around 200 when cool.

 

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Thanks silver pigeon69.....that's a great formula to copy & paste!

We fill from 90 back up to 200 bar, so using your formula that means....

110*0.2 (200cc size of buddy bottle) = 22 LFG

100*7 = 700 LFG

700/22 = 31.8 fills

.......after approximately 12-15 refills the cylinder is definitely struggling to reach 200 bar.....have we been short changed at the dive shop? ;)

 

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Are you getting 300 bar when your cylinder is filled by the dive shop? do you wait for it to be filled and if so is it quite warm after filling? Do you have a pressure gauge on the cylinder whip? I presume the dive shop has facilities to fill to 300bar and that you have requested a 300bar fill?

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1 hour ago, Bobydazzler said:

.....or is this the 'wasted air' someone kindly mentioned on another forum?

 

hello, you will always loose a bit of air filling a PCP when you open the release valve to take out filling adapter,  next time see how much they put in to refill cylinder, i would aim for 30 fills.

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Thanks oldypigeonpopper, I agree.

silver pigeon69 - sorry m8 I dunno, my shooting pal took it to be filled....and his eye's often glaze over in response to questions ;) pressure gauge is on the cylinder whip. Yes, the shop has 300 bar facility (and I'm pretty positive this would have been requested)

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