Moorland fire in Manchester

[100milesaway]

I used to wander these moors when i lived in Saddleworth and have never witnessed a worse fire in at least 50 years. THere are already about 3,000 acres gone up in flames. The moor was well alight in a very small area above Carrbrook reservoir and it was "put out" within about 4 hours unfortunatly the moor was then left without anyone keeping an eye out for a reburn.  Normally this would be OK .The  peat bogs on the hills are not used to such dry conditions and as they  dry out they shrink, this allows fissures in the bog sometimes running up to half a mile long and 20 feet deep to appear or go underground.Once the peat gets alight underground it only needs a slight draft from above to set the moors alight again.The firemen have been carrying stuff 2 miles for 3 days untill the military came with helicopters to bus them into the areas. A helecopter has been used for at least 4 days picking up water from the reservoirs and dumping it on the areas firstly to save houses and farms and then to save stock that was trapped. Mr Crowther and his family from Upperwood estate and all the farms around and local keepers are working flat out but the magnitude of the disaster is unbelievable as the fires are in very remote locations. My nephew is a fireman at the local fire station. Local people are all helping sending food and drinks to the lads they are all knackered. Thankfully the army have now arrived with lots more boots on the ground but it will take many years for the moors to recover. from Auntie.

 

[Westley]

12 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, if that is the case of arson what a crack pot or words to that effect, all those people affected with fire fighters, / army/ and police, at least 5 years in HMP

I'll bet it will be 'suspended'  !  Shame they can not suspend the offender  ?

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, is there any way to see via a satellite web site on the computer, its a real shame it happened do anyone think it might have been started deliberately

Driving along the m61 today and you can see all the smoke coming off rivington pike, someone has been arrested under suspicion of arson, what an absolute tool.

my brothers neighbours have gone camping up there though? They phoned and were told its fine no problem, so its 30 degrees and stinks of smoke?? Don't think i would have bothered.

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Driving along the m61 today and you can see all the smoke coming off rivington pike, someone has been arrested under suspicion of arson, what an absolute tool.

my brothers neighbours have gone camping up there though? They phoned and were told its fine no problem, so its 30 degrees and stinks of smoke?? Don't think i would have bothered.

hello, they just mentioned that on the beeb, oh i would agree on that, i just hope the moors will come back as before the fire as such a beautiful area, i see they interviewed Mr Packam ???? but did not hear so will try and find on i player, we need some rain oh and pigeons !!!!!!! cheers

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, they just mentioned that on the beeb, oh i would agree on that, i just hope the moors will come back as before the fire as such a beautiful area, i see they interviewed Mr Packam ???? but did not hear so will try and find on i player, we need some rain oh and pigeons !!!!!!! cheers

We'll there were pigeons on the wires near rivington, at the junction for Bolton wanderers football ground, something had been cut and bailed and more birds were joining them, with smoke from the hills in the background.

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

We'll there were pigeons on the wires near rivington, at the junction for Bolton wanderers football ground, something had been cut and bailed and more birds were joining them, with smoke from the hills in the background.

hello, yes the barley is nearly ready around here, my friends farm are cutting rape first so am hoping for a few shots, cheers  

[oldypigeonpopper]

19 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, is there any way to see via a satellite web site on the computer, its a real shame it happened do anyone think it might have been started deliberately

hello, reading some reports today it said to now resemble something like out of an Apocalypse movie, i just hope it will return to its former glory of such a beautiful area loved by so many local and beyond, 

[JohnfromUK]

They are wonderful areas.  I have spent many many happy hours walking for an odd grouse on moors in both Wales and Scotland, but never England.  Where the fire has been surface vegetation, recovery will be quite fast and in the end, the effect is likely to be beneficial, but where the peat has burned, it will be very slow, and indeed I'm not sure that what grows will be beneficial (heather, bilberry, moss, upland grasses etc. are good, but bracken by and large isn't).  If it has burned right through the peat to underlying rock, it may never recover (at least in our lifetimes)

Any areas, but especially those with public access are always at risk of fire in very dry conditions and although fires can occur form natural causes (lightning), I believe many are started from picnics and cigarettes.  I have a recollection (that may be wrong) that much of the peak district moorland was closed one year (possibly 1976?) due to serious fire risk.  There may be a case for doing that more frequently.

[Gordon R]

Quote

They`re `conservationists` which in my experience ,means conserving their own careers & lifestyles.....& little else.

100% correct.

[Mice!]

ITV news just said the two fires have joined due to the winds today, Lancashire fire have asked for help from the army, 100 firefighters up there but no mention of farmers or keepers.

[Jaymo]

Have some pics of the fires from the air this evening, not had a look at them so can’t tell you if they’re worth posting up.

Noticed three separate fires, the one on Saddleworth was the largest, but compared to the fires we have witnessed elsewhere in the world they appeared relatively small and not ferociously burning ( we’ve been stuck in some major ones in southern France over the years that burn many many times more acreage than theses) 

But even so, I hope they are extinguished soon for all involved, environmental impact if above experiences can be relied on will be marginal if any.

[100milesaway]

There is only wildfire marginally on Saddleworth Moor most of it is above the Carrbrook reservoir and the winds in the main have been keeping it there but the wind is changing now and this could push the fires over in the crowden area above woodhead. The damage is severe as it is still burning actually under the surface and with the winds the fire could erupt in different areas at anytime. This moor will need many years to recover most  of the land is owned by  united utillities  with some in private ownership., that's why it is not burned in strips regularly. The farmers and keepers have been up there all the time as have the local mountain rescue team all helping the fire men. THe fires in Southern France or not on tinder dry peat bogs.

  from Auntie.

Edited June 30, 2018 by 100milesaway

[Mice!]

I got sent a you tube link earlier, think its of the firemen and ladies working up there but I've not watched it yet, might be worth a look for those interested.

[Jaymo]

33 minutes ago, 100milesaway said:

There is only wildfire marginally on Saddleworth Moor most of it is above the Carrbrook reservoir and the winds in the main have been keeping it there but the wind is changing now and this could push the fires over in the crowden area above woodhead. The damage is severe as it is still burning actually under the surface and with the winds the fire could erupt in different areas at anytime. This moor will need many years to recover most  of the land is owned by  united utillities  with some in private ownership., that's why it is not burned in strips regularly. The farmers and keepers have been up there all the time as have the local mountain rescue team all helping the fire men. THe fires in Southern France or not on tinder dry peat bogs.

  from Auntie.

That’s true Auntie, they are however tinder dry scrubland/grass and thousands of hectares of pine Forrest’s - we have only certain dates during the year that even a domestic bonfire is allowed for fear of fires.

 

[Mice!]

One of the lads has just said that rivington pike looks like a scene from a disaster movie tonight, must be well a blaze 

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, did i hear correct this new fire was arson as well??? 

[Uilleachan]

I think you're right, I heard arson mentioned.  

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, did i hear correct this new fire was arson as well??? 

I think sadly most are man made.  Whether they are 'arson' will depend if you call discarded cigarette ends and camping/bbq fires as arson because they are man caused.  Some fires are lightning caused, but I don't believe there have been storms in the area recently.

[Mice!]

there haven't been any storms, the fire on rivington is believed to be arson and someone is being questioned by the police, the wind has caused the two fires to join up.

[Mice!]

[demonwolf444]

So upsetting. Whoever did this is guilty of much more than arson, perhaps not in law, but has undoubtedly done incalculable damage from a biodiversity and conservation point of view. The damage done is in my view akin to an act of terrorism.

My sisters boyfriend lives nearby, showing me videos of his mates some of which had not slept for days going backwards and forwards with slurry tankers full of water they have found all sorts of animals singed and dead from smoke inhalation - sheep burned, everything. Apparently the initial response was one fire engine and the keepers and farmers were not all that impressed. The fact is that such events are fairly rare - In other countries they have local groups of wildland fire fighters who are called in to control and manage wildfires which operate similar to how our mountain rescue volunteer groups work. Its not a bad idea. We went last week and put signs up on all the gates near us leading up on to the north York moors which Im sure will do nothing but if it makes someone having a fag think twice about where they put it out its worthwhile. I think as sportspeople and country people we might not own the moors but we take ownership of them because we have a connection with the landscape, through sport and recreation. I can not understand the motivation of someone committing arson.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Nicely put Mate, such a shame, and if it is found to be Arson and if they manage to charge someone they should be pilloried by their community.

[panoma1]

If the moors were managed properly in the first place, its unlikely it would have been such a massive, devastatingly destructive fire!

This, I believe, is where the blame lies! 

[Uilleachan]

40 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

If the moors were managed properly in the first place, its unlikely it would have been such a massive, devastatingly destructive fire!

This, I believe, is where the blame lies! 

Completely disagree, unless the hills were dug up and replaced with fire retardant astroturf; heath fires in conditions such as these will always have to potential to occur. Especially when eejits set them on purpose. 

Where I am we had two big hill fires, on the same patch burning right to the village march fence, within two years of each other. The last one started because of someone conducting a controlled burn in a paddock. So focused on controlling his burn, it took his neighbour to point out that embers from his burn had leapt the wall and started a fire on the other side of the road.  

That last fire burnt for two days and was almost out when the wind got up from the north. Within 2 hours the fire had rekindled, traveled 4 miles and torched almost 20 square kilometres. The same ground had burnt 18 months previously. Short of utterly transforming the place, I'm at a loss to conceive of management methods, other than not conducting controlled burning in such conditions, that could be have prevented that. 

[panoma1]

13 minutes ago, Uilleachan said:

Completely disagree, unless the hills were dug up and replaced with fire retardant astroturf; heath fires in conditions such as these will always have to potential to occur. Especially when eejits set them on purpose. 

Where I am we had two big hill fires, on the same patch burning right to the village march fence, within two years of each other. The last one started because of someone conducting a controlled burn in a paddock. So focused on controlling his burn, it took his neighbour to point out that embers from his burn had leapt the wall and started a fire on the other side of the road.  

That last fire burnt for two days and was almost out when the wind got up from the north. Within 2 hours the fire had rekindled, traveled 4 miles and torched almost 20 square kilometres. The same ground had burnt 18 months previously. Short of utterly transforming the place, I'm at a loss to conceive of management methods, other than not conducting controlled burning in such conditions, that could be have prevented that. 

I did not suggest moor management would prevent it, I suggested moor management would have made it "unlikely it would have been such a massive,devastatingly destructive fire" 

Controlled cutting/burning (or lack of it) is the moor management I was referring to!