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Brexit - merged threads


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4 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

May apparently slid through a vote on an amendment today by 307  to  301 ....... I demand a a re run of the vote due to it being so close to 50/50

Recount ?

I would not want her job for anything. 

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I'm at the point I would welcome a second referendum, although that would be totally undemocratic, I beleive we'd end up with a much higher leave victory specifically for a clean brexit, it would completely kill of the remaniacs argument, although I'm sure they'd continue all the same.

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I wouldn't rule out Farage starting up a new party! If these jokers **** Brexit up! I think a new party would get instant and heavy support!....everyone is fed up of the two party 'turn taking system' we have had for years, and their self serving waster MP's. 

Time for a UK Trump?

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1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

I wouldn't rule out Farage starting up a new party! If these jokers **** Brexit up! I think a new party would get instant and heavy support!....everyone is fed up of the two party 'turn taking system' we have had for years, and their self serving waster MP's. 

Time for a UK Trump?

Well if the conservatives don't deliver true brexit as was voted for, whoever delivered would get my vote and I'm sure many others.

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1 hour ago, old man said:

Ted signed up for trade not political togetherness.

Not the EU then? 

There was plenty of parliamentary discussion at the time from both sides of the house that political togetherness was clearly part of the plan. 

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28 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not the EU then? 

There was plenty of parliamentary discussion at the time from both sides of the house that political togetherness was clearly part of the plan. 

Maybe there was, they just didnt discuss it with the people who voted for them though.

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7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

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Just to remind you of the impartiality of the government leaflet as well.

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Excellent post, as I said in a earlier post, it's a bit rich to accuse the leave side of misconduct after how the remain side acted, this post shows it very clearly though.

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2 hours ago, matone said:

Whatever your view of him,I thought Boris made a great speech yesterday,echoing the deep dismay felt by many of us!

 

Boris both writes (or has written) a good speech, and delivers it well.  However, I'm not a Boris supporter (though I do admit he has many good qualities).

My scepticism over Boris is down to things like this;

Before the referendum vote, Boris 'sat on the fence' for a long time before coming out as a leaver.  He is alleged have to have had speeches prepared to support both remain and leave.  My personal view is that he was watching which way the wind was blowing and plotting a path he felt was 'good for Boris', not what was good for others, the country, or his party.  I think everything Boris does is a political game aimed at furthering his career, and that includes his recent resignation.  He is a politician, and a clever one.  He isn't a statesman (in my view).

I think he resigned because he sees things going wrong, doesn't want to get hit by the 'fallout' when it all hits the fan, but wants to be in a position to say 'told you so', and use the outcome to further his own political career.    

One BIG problem with people like that is that when they get the result they have been working for (to the top post in this case), they loose interest, and move onto the next objective - and who knows what that may be?  It won't be for anyone other than Boris.

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50 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Boris both writes (or has written) a good speech, and delivers it well.  However, I'm not a Boris supporter (though I do admit he has many good qualities).

My scepticism over Boris is down to things like this;

Before the referendum vote, Boris 'sat on the fence' for a long time before coming out as a leaver.  He is alleged have to have had speeches prepared to support both remain and leave.  My personal view is that he was watching which way the wind was blowing and plotting a path he felt was 'good for Boris', not what was good for others, the country, or his party.  I think everything Boris does is a political game aimed at furthering his career, and that includes his recent resignation.  He is a politician, and a clever one.  He isn't a statesman (in my view).

I think he resigned because he sees things going wrong, doesn't want to get hit by the 'fallout' when it all hits the fan, but wants to be in a position to say 'told you so', and use the outcome to further his own political career.    

One BIG problem with people like that is that when they get the result they have been working for (to the top post in this case), they loose interest, and move onto the next objective - and who knows what that may be?  It won't be for anyone other than Boris.

Im not a Boris supporter either, for various reasons, and whilst I agree with you about his dithering, there could be a better reason for it.

Before the referendum, in the run up to it ,and even before that, there was a lot of discussion of how in the (unlikely !) event of us leaving the EU , we would extract ourselves from what has become part of the fabric of our industry, and to an extent, our lives, our political class has interwoven themselves into 'Future Europe' and some of them will only let go when they absolutely have to.
As much as I know where I stand on it, plenty of others, see issues, serious issues about leaving, let there be no illusions about this.
Boris, probably more in the know than most, may well have thought that there was good reasons for staying, impact on the economy, via industry, jobs and general commerce ect ?
The trouble was, back in those heady ,pre Brexit days, no one really knew how it would pan out, IF we played nicely, the EU would give us a nice tariff free trade deal, wouldnt it ?
We might have to pay them for it, or a lump sum for compensation, but broadly ,Brexit envisioned keeping most of what we have now, without the bad bits and meddling in our sovereign law.
Maybe Boris did hedge his bets, maybe he thought the impact of a hard, cliff edge Brexit would be too much for his country to bear ?
So did a lot of people, some still do.
One thing that is apparent is, in the beginning, no one in the UK  really wanted that hard Brexit.
But unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately ,thats the only Brexit the EU is willing to give us.

The negotiations have been a waste of time, we have given concession after concession, offered money, virtual free movement and rights to EU citizens, we have tried various ways to placate Eire and the EU about the NI border, lately we have offered soft Brexit, and a virtual customs union, we have near enough capitulated on everything.
And its all been rejected.
Can anyone here tell me what the EU , during these negotiations, have offered US  ?
You can scratch your heads as long as you want, the answer is NOTHING.

Maybe Boris had the knowledge, or the foresight to see this coming, and played his hand accordingly.
Either way he played the correct hand, and still is.

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