Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 

As for your man Condell, there's something nasty about him that rubs me up the wrong way. Why the gratuitous sneers at people who study 'useless' degrees? His hatred and contempt in that regard puts him in some pretty dubious company - Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot too were notoriously vehement in their condemnation of 'useless intellectuals', with their carping objections to a Great Project. Besides which, literature, music, history, language, religion and philosophy are an integral part of what makes us who we are. So where's the objection to studying them? No, the man's a throwback to the worst kind of communist/stalinist anti-intellectual. Never did care for those sorts of people. Destructive...

 

The mans just a bloke from a council estate, who many years ago took to Youtube to vent his anger at the way the World is going.

He actually used to be a whole lot more vitriolic !
This particular 'vent' is quite tame to be fair.

To compare him to some communistic despot is a bit over the top in my opinion, its just the way he sees things.
But I think he would be amused and  impressed with your lofty assessment 😁
 

[Gordon R]

The people cited were responsible for many deaths. The comparison says far more about the poster than it does about Condell, who seems far less extreme than his critics.

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I've said it before. I''m almost certain that I would have voted leave if I'd been in residence and had a vote. I didn't like the EU and still don't. But in retrospect I think my vote would have been wrong. As the time draws closer, it seems like the wolf is set to be even bigger and badder than 'Project Fear' were claiming, and at the same time as a minnow in a world of pike-sized trade blocs  'the taking back control' hope is looking increasingly chimerical. Out in the real world, the little people don't control much of anything at all  But we'll see. Here's hoping that I'm wrong and being unduly pessimistic. 

As for your man Condell, there's something nasty about him that rubs me up the wrong way. Why the gratuitous sneers at people who study 'useless' degrees? His hatred and contempt in that regard puts him in some pretty dubious company - Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot too were notoriously vehement in their condemnation of 'useless intellectuals', with their carping objections to a Great Project. Besides which, literature, music, history, language, religion and philosophy are an integral part of what makes us who we are. So where's the objection to studying them? No, the man's a throwback to the worst kind of communist/stalinist anti-intellectual. Never did care for those sorts of people. Destructive...

 

 

 

If the big bad wolf is set to be bigger and badder than 'project fear were claiming, then we're done for, as they ( if I recall ) were claiming everything up to and including a third world war! There were some pretty scary claims made, such as mass unemployment and house prices collapsing if we voted to leave...not if we left I hasten to add, but simply voted to leave. Neither happened. You're right, the little people don't control much at all, but the little people had their say and told the big people where to shove it. We're leaving. 

As for Mr Condell, I'm a Dad with one at Uni' and another about to start. The former is studying fine art and the latter nutrition as regards to health. Neither are what could be termed 'serious' topics with prospects of gainful employment at top level, and despite my kids having my 100% support and encouragement in whatever it is they venture to do,  I find myself agreeing with Mr Condell and his opinion of remainers. The establishment have been snubbed by the working classes, and they can't get over it. 

 

[matone]

23 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Good video, he speaks a lot of truth.

He does indeed! Nails it 100% for me.

[Rewulf]

For the benefit of those who dont know who he is .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Condell

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

If the big bad wolf is set to be bigger and badder than 'project fear were claiming, then we're done for, as they ( if I recall ) were claiming everything up to and including a third world war! There were some pretty scary claims made, such as mass unemployment and house prices collapsing if we voted to leave...not if we left I hasten to add, but simply voted to leave. Neither happened. You're right, the little people don't control much at all, but the little people had their say and told the big people where to shove it. We're leaving. 

As for Mr Condell, I'm a Dad with one at Uni' and another about to start. The former is studying fine art and the latter nutrition as regards to health. Neither are what could be termed 'serious' topics with prospects of gainful employment at top level, and despite my kids having my 100% support and encouragement in whatever it is they venture to do,  I find myself agreeing with Mr Condell and his opinion of remainers. The establishment have been snubbed by the working classes, and they can't get over it. 

 

Another couple of good points Mr Scully, one which I'd like to pick up on is the demographic of those who chose to leave Vs remain, the media would have us believe it a straight devide between young and old, I think it's much closer to working class who have been left behind, down trodden and ignored by the politicians, Vs those who find "the status quo" is currently working very well for, backed by uni's and the students they teach.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I see Christine la Garde has stuck her head up again, not content with all her doom mongering around the referendum, she is now spouting her rubbish about the UK and OUR Brexit!

[Scully]

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

For the benefit of those who dont know who he is .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Condell

Thanks for that.  

'Once you become aware of the gulf between what people profess to believe and how they actually behave, it's hard to take any of it seriously.'  Covers a plethora of topics and just about sums it up for me. 

[Scully]

28 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Another couple of good points Mr Scully, one which I'd like to pick up on is the demographic of those who chose to leave Vs remain, the media would have us believe it a straight devide between young and old, I think it's much closer to working class who have been left behind, down trodden and ignored by the politicians, Vs those who find "the status quo" is currently working very well for, backed by uni's and the students they teach.

My daughter asked me which way she should vote in the referendum, and I told her to find out as much about it as she could and vote whichever way she chose. I was well aware she could easily have been influenced by her friends and that I myself could easily influence her, but the latter wouldn't have sat easy with me, so I didn't, and kept my fingers crossed. In the end she didn't bother and when I asked her why, she simply shrugged and said she didn't know enough about it. Fair enough. At her age I wasn't interested either. 

I voted out because I believe the EU to be undemocratic and unaccountable, and therefore inherently corrupt and more than a little sinister. My daughter just likes going out and enjoying herself, and that's as it should be. 🙂

[12gauge82]

53 minutes ago, Scully said:

My daughter asked me which way she should vote in the referendum, and I told her to find out as much about it as she could and vote whichever way she chose. I was well aware she could easily have been influenced by her friends and that I myself could easily influence her, but the latter wouldn't have sat easy with me, so I didn't, and kept my fingers crossed. In the end she didn't bother and when I asked her why, she simply shrugged and said she didn't know enough about it. Fair enough. At her age I wasn't interested either. 

I voted out because I believe the EU to be undemocratic and unaccountable, and therefore inherently corrupt and more than a little sinister. My daughter just likes going out and enjoying herself, and that's as it should be. 🙂

Good answer, and reading your posts on here the last few years, that's the exact, sensible, logical and unbiased sort of answer id image you to give, it also sounds like your daughter is taking after her dad, which is good, too many young these days who question nothing and think they know it all because they saw it on twitter.

[besty57]

16 hours ago, Scully said:

I enjoyed that. Well said...sums up the remoaners for me. 👍

+1

[Retsdon]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

For the benefit of those who dont know who he is .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Condell

Interesting bloke, and his background will have undoubtedly coloured his perspective on a lot of things. I'll withdraw 85 percent of my earlier negativity 

It might also help that I just stumbled across a Johnathan Pie video from 3 months ago that basically is saying the exact same as Pat Condell - except far less politely! I don't want to post a link because the video contains a lot of 'profanity' but it's funny, and for anyone interested, a google search on 'Johnathan Pie leave voters are thick' should turn it up. Like all Pie stuff it's worth a watch.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Retsdon

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good old Johnathan Pie!

 

[Rewulf]

17 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Interesting bloke, and his background will have undoubtedly coloured his perspective on a lot of things. I'll withdraw 85 percent of my earlier negativity 

 

Good man for admitting your error, well 85% of it 👍😁

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Good man for admitting your error, well 85% of it 👍😁

Thank you. I recommend the Pie video if you haven't seen it. You'll like it.

[Rewulf]

I wonder if this man went to Uni. 

Andrew Adonis

 

✔@Andrew_Adonis

 

 

When Brexit is stopped, there will have to be a public enquiry and in my view those directly responsible should never hold office again

12:28 - 16 Sep 2018

 

• You know damn well he did !
  And those 17.4 million people WILL NEVER HOLD OFFICE AGAIN !

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Rewulf

[pinfireman]

21 hours ago, Retsdon said:

No he doesn't. He says nothing - just repeats a lot of self-pitying canards before throwing in a lot of snide ad hominems for ironic effect. He might just as well be miming along to something he made in 1915. 

Meanwhile, the clock has kept going round and round and the fact is that unless May comes up quick sharp with a feasible proposal or, from compassion, the EU grants an extension to the leaving date, in March Britain is set to throw out seamless trading ties for 40 percent of its business. Not to mention that nearly all the permissions, standards, protocols, etc that have, for 40 years largely underpinned our relationship with the rest of the world by virtue of having been negotiated under the EU will go out of the window with them and will need to be painstakingly rewritten one by one.

No, none of these minor details bother our intrepid hero in the video because he never listens to people who might not share his opinion or reflects on what they say. Far easier to insult them and close his ears. A university education would have helped him in this regard - but hey ho.

Nonetheless, 'facts are chiels' and in 6 months - unless everyone from the trade unions, to the banks, to industrial manufacturers,  to agri business, etc' etc are all completely wrong in their predictions- the UK is very likely facing a economic tsunami with follow up waves of incalculable permutations lasting an unknowable time. 

But what do these experts know about their own livelihoods anything? And don't forget, they've all been wrong at some point in the past about something or other spo they can be safely ignored forever  (as if having being wrong about A invariably means being wrong about a different B, C,D, into infinity). Absurd...but enter our hero in the movie.

There's a saying to describe this attitude. It's called 'the arrogance of ignorance', and this rather unpleasant individual is a perfect personification. Like they say, if it walks like a duck, etc, etc...

 

"He never listens to people who might not share his opinion".............sounds familiar?

4 hours ago, Scully said:

If the big bad wolf is set to be bigger and badder than 'project fear were claiming, then we're done for, as they ( if I recall ) were claiming everything up to and including a third world war! There were some pretty scary claims made, such as mass unemployment and house prices collapsing if we voted to leave...not if we left I hasten to add, but simply voted to leave. Neither happened. You're right, the little people don't control much at all, but the little people had their say and told the big people where to shove it. We're leaving. 

As for Mr Condell, I'm a Dad with one at Uni' and another about to start. The former is studying fine art and the latter nutrition as regards to health. Neither are what could be termed 'serious' topics with prospects of gainful employment at top level, and despite my kids having my 100% support and encouragement in whatever it is they venture to do,  I find myself agreeing with Mr Condell and his opinion of remainers. The establishment have been snubbed by the working classes, and they can't get over it. 

 

Well said!

[12gauge82]

What really annoys me is the constant stream of negative news regarding leaving the EU, as well as the constant force feeding of all the positives, the electorate can smell it a mile away, take the recent MOT change that has come in solely due to being a member of the EU, now I'm not saying something as trivial as that should be used to form an opinion on leave or stay, but they do it all the time for any negative to do with leaving, why don't we see it plastered all over the BBC when it's the reverse? Or is it because as most already suspect, it's a stitch up by the privileged few that want to see the status quo continue.

[KB1]

Very interesting Chaps….

 Nothing like a good ol’ dose of politics to divide opinion, and in some cases, cause a Social Media punch up.

 I didn’t vote either way, as I couldn’t make my mind up regarding my priorities, much in the same way as I read posts on here from Messrs.’ Scully, Rewulf, Retsdon, pinfireman, 12guage82 etc, and see valid points in all their posts.  Not sure if the interspersed ‘One line hand grenades’ are particularly informative or relevant, but I suppose they do have the effect of keeping the debate going.

 My reasons for being in favour of Brexit is that I firmly believe that the Brussels imposed laws over the years have had a suffocating effect on the UK in many ways, including the influence on our control of immigration.  Conversely, my reasons for being in favour of remaining in the EU is that a wave of economic casualties will ensue, that otherwise would not.

 BUT, here’s the bit that will no doubt prove unpopular with the PC brigade…  I do think that the majority of pro-Brexit votes cast in the referendum were in the main to do with immigration. However, I don’t accept that it’s ok to label people en masse with the convenient ‘Racist’ tag for voting with this as their ‘priority’.  Instead, I see it as a monumental failure on the part of Governments, past and present, to gauge the thinking of what I would refer to as the ‘Silent Majority’ of British people.  It has become almost impossible to discuss genuine ethnic difference opinions without being labeled with some heinous title.

 No matter how well educated David Cameron thought he was; he was too dim or blinkered to see this one coming………  He gave the Silent Majority a chance to voice their concerns like never before!

 Oh yes, I nearly forgot… My views on immigration.   It’s a healthy thing as long as we are allowed a say on what cultural beliefs/customs/practices you try and impose on us, and to what degree! After all, it’s getting a bit tedious having to apologise for ‘OUR’ way of life.

 As a caveat to anyone wanting to issue me with one of the usual PC labels, I’m in a mixed race marriage, with 2 mixed race children, therefore the ‘Racist’ cap won’t fit, no matter how hard you push.

[12gauge82]

22 minutes ago, KB1 said:

Very interesting Chaps….

 Nothing like a good ol’ dose of politics to divide opinion, and in some cases, cause a Social Media punch up.

 I didn’t vote either way, as I couldn’t make my mind up regarding my priorities, much in the same way as I read posts on here from Messrs.’ Scully, Rewulf, Retsdon, pinfireman, 12guage82 etc, and see valid points in all their posts.  Not sure if the interspersed ‘One line hand grenades’ are particularly informative or relevant, but I suppose they do have the effect of keeping the debate going.

 My reasons for being in favour of Brexit is that I firmly believe that the Brussels imposed laws over the years have had a suffocating effect on the UK in many ways, including the influence on our control of immigration.  Conversely, my reasons for being in favour of remaining in the EU is that a wave of economic casualties will ensue, that otherwise would not.

 BUT, here’s the bit that will no doubt prove unpopular with the PC brigade…  I do think that the majority of pro-Brexit votes cast in the referendum were in the main to do with immigration. However, I don’t accept that it’s ok to label people en masse with the convenient ‘Racist’ tag for voting with this as their ‘priority’.  Instead, I see it as a monumental failure on the part of Governments, past and present, to gauge the thinking of what I would refer to as the ‘Silent Majority’ of British people.  It has become almost impossible to discuss genuine ethnic difference opinions without being labeled with some heinous title.

 No matter how well educated David Cameron thought he was; he was too dim or blinkered to see this one coming………  He gave the Silent Majority a chance to voice their concerns like never before!

 Oh yes, I nearly forgot… My views on immigration.   It’s a healthy thing as long as we are allowed a say on what cultural beliefs/customs/practices you try and impose on us, and to what degree! After all, it’s getting a bit tedious having to apologise for ‘OUR’ way of life.

 As a caveat to anyone wanting to issue me with one of the usual PC labels, I’m in a mixed race marriage, with 2 mixed race children, therefore the ‘Racist’ cap won’t fit, no matter how hard you push.

I think your fairly spot on with your assessment.

Also on the immigration issue, I know a large number of people that voted leave for a large number of different reasons, but your right, immigration was a common denominator as one of the factors for most, and like your self several are from different ethnic backgrounds and I know one guy who was originally an immigrant himself. It holds true with what your saying in that the voiceless population of this country has been ignored for far too long.

The biggest issue for me in all this, isn't even brexit itself, it's a test of whether we live in a democratic country, Theresa Mays current proposal is nothing like the brexit that was voted for, and if it goes through, I can see a huge amount of anger and further disillusion across the country, and at that point I genuinely fear the rise of the far right, it's how nazi Germany started.

[KB1]

12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think your fairly spot on with your assessment.

Also on the immigration issue, I know a large number of people that voted leave for a large number of different reasons, but your right, immigration was a common denominator as one of the factors for most, and like your self several are from different ethnic backgrounds and I know one guy who was originally an immigrant himself. It holds true with what your saying in that the voiceless population of this country has been ignored for far too long.

The biggest issue for me in all this, isn't even brexit itself, it's a test of whether we live in a democratic country, Theresa Mays current proposal is nothing like the brexit that was voted for, and if it goes through, I can see a huge amount of anger and further disillusion across the country, and at that point I genuinely fear the rise of the far right, it's how nazi Germany started.

Just to clarify, I'm white British, my wife is Chinese and my kids are 'mixers', as my Mrs calls them😀.

I agree regarding democracy, but it remains to be seen if it holds up.

[12gauge82]

18 minutes ago, KB1 said:

Just to clarify, I'm white British, my wife is Chinese and my kids are 'mixers', as my Mrs calls them😀.

I agree regarding democracy, but it remains to be seen if it holds up.

Sorry, misread your post 👍

[Rewulf]

Mays doing a presser right now, not looking good for her, or Chequers.

[Newbie to this]

56 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Mays doing a presser right now, not looking good for her, or Chequers.

Didn't see it, but hopefully Chequers is dead.

That means No deal doesn't it?

Edited September 20, 2018 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Didn't see it, but hopefully Chequers is dead.

That means No deal doesn't it?

So she says...