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2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The 'gang of four' suffered several disadvantages;

  • There were only four, Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Bill Rodgers and Shirley Williams
  • Roy Jenkins could talk a good story, but it was all waffle
  • David Owen was smarmy and hard to believe
  • Bill Rodgers seemed nice enough, but was fundamentally 'dull'
  • Shirley Williams like the sound of her own voice too much - and had lost her Labour seat, so had nothing to loose by giving it a try.
  • With only four of them, they joined up with the Liberals who had recently ditched Jeremy Thorpe who was engaged in dodgy practices that had led to a long MI5 file and his resignation and a near miss with court proceedings.  Many who might have supported the 'gang of four' wouldn't touch the liberals with a barge pole (and Thorpe wasn't the only dodgy one as Cyril Smith was a big player in the Liberals then.
  • They were VERY pro Europe (Jenkins had held what is now Junckers job then).

The intention was to be 'centre left', but the country didn't really want 'left at all then'.  Many of their 'ideas' were subsequently respun by Blair, Mandleson , Campbell and Co. - and found success as new Labour policy.

With

Good analysis!

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4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The 'gang of four' suffered several disadvantages;

  • There were only four, Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Bill Rodgers and Shirley Williams
  • Roy Jenkins could talk a good story, but it was all waffle
  • David Owen was smarmy and hard to believe
  • Bill Rodgers seemed nice enough, but was fundamentally 'dull'
  • Shirley Williams like the sound of her own voice too much - and had lost her Labour seat, so had nothing to loose by giving it a try.
  • With only four of them, they joined up with the Liberals who had recently ditched Jeremy Thorpe who was engaged in dodgy practices that had led to a long MI5 file and his resignation and a near miss with court proceedings.  Many who might have supported the 'gang of four' wouldn't touch the liberals with a barge pole (and Thorpe wasn't the only dodgy one as Cyril Smith was a big player in the Liberals then.
  • They were VERY pro Europe (Jenkins had held what is now Junckers job then).

The intention was to be 'centre left', but the country didn't really want 'left at all then'.  Many of their 'ideas' were subsequently respun by Blair, Mandleson , Campbell and Co. - and found success as new Labour policy.

With

All correct but I was merely using them as a template ,so to speak !

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I see the federalist hard man of the EU, Macron has, after all his tough talk of no renegotiating the Brexit deal, shown he's got no gonads after all! He's folded and offered wage rises, increase in the minimum wage and other major concessions....in order to try to buy off the French yellow vest protesters.......typical all gob and no moral fibre politician!

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4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Why didnt we just ask them to vote on whether to leave or remain then, as instructed via poll in each constituency ?

Or if they dont want to carry out the will of the people who elected them, as is their JOB.
Next time around , or maybe even before, via a no confidence by election, make them JOB-LESS ?

 

Are you sure about that ?
I think you underestimate the anger building up.

Beat me to it.

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53 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I see the federalist hard man of the EU, Macron has, after all his tough talk of no renegotiating the Brexit deal, shown he's got no gonads after all! He's folded and offered wage rises, increase in the minimum wage and other major concessions....in order to try to buy off the French yellow vest protesters

France is like the UK was, pre Thatcher.  Ultimately the Unions have a strong hold that can be used to force the government's hand.  Thatcher took back control here in a straight Unions v Government battle. 

Incidentally, Jeremy Corbyn has promised to give the unions back their power here!  How stupid can you get?

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9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

France is like the UK was, pre Thatcher.  Ultimately the Unions have a strong hold that can be used to force the government's hand.  Thatcher took back control here in a straight Unions v Government battle. 

Incidentally, Jeremy Corbyn has promised to give the unions back their power here!  How stupid can you get?

Nearly as stupid as a government that ignores the largest referendum ever voted in.

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6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good grief, now Margaret Becket is getting airtime!

you are jokiing.......................is see "2 name" grant snapps having his say......................people have very short memories of criminal behavoir amongst MP's

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37 minutes ago, yod dropper said:

Given there's so much fuss over the backstop, can anybody tell me what the EU plans are for the Irish border in the event of a WTO rules departure? Every time I've heard an interview the answer seems to be that it won't come to that and they won't say anything.

They've stated they will not put a hard border in so the whole issue is a farce, as the UK and Ireland have also said they would not install a hard border, the EU made an issue of it to attempt to get the upper hand in negotiations, which is absolutely vile considering the implications of whipping up anger over it.

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29 minutes ago, Danger-Mouse said:

A different view of the Brixit march and counter march.

Great video.

Love Owen Jones, hes so funny, he could do a speech or something and it could easily pass for satirical political comedy.

Anyone would think he was serious with his pseudo commie view...

Some say he was the product of a gene splicing experiment between soros and lady nugent :sick: , but it all went wrong and they abandoned him outside Corbyns house as a baby :whistling:

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18 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It is all Parliament - not just the Government

Correct! The two-faced Corbyn, an EU leaver for all his political life, then gets his snout in the trough as Leader, and Hey Presto! He,s a Remoaner!

4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good grief, now Margaret Becket is getting airtime!

Which crypt did they open?

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Great video.

Love Owen Jones, hes so funny, he could do a speech or something and it could easily pass for satirical political comedy.

Anyone would think he was serious with his pseudo commie view...

Some say he was the product of a gene splicing experiment between soros and lady nugent , but it all went wrong and they abandoned him outside Corbyns house as a baby 

Apparently, this is what you get if you indulge in a n al sex!

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Quote

They've stated they will not put a hard border in so the whole issue is a farce, as the UK and Ireland have also said they would not install a hard border, the EU made an issue of it to attempt to get the upper hand in negotiations, which is absolutely vile considering the implications of whipping up anger over it.

 

True but its the Irish government is demanding a backstop and the EU are happy to use it to get concessions.  It could come back to bite them in the *** the ROI would be the biggest losers in a no deal brexit, and their demand for the backstop could mean no deal. They are in danger of concentrating so much on their insurance policy, that they run into the car in front.   

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25 minutes ago, redial said:

Could it be to give the Remoaners a chance to shout and display their posters

It made me chuckle - the plonker (peoples losers vote ) waving a banner saying we did not vote to be poorer - this is exactly what they voted for when they voted remain but they still can't. see it

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