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50 minutes ago, Scully said:

On the local news tonight was a labour MP who is in favour of a 2nd referendum if a GE wasn’t forthcoming. I haven’t heard one reporter yet, ask of anyone of this persuasion.....’and what happens if a 2nd referendum results in a ‘leave’ majority again?’. Why isn’t anyone asking this question? I’d love to know what the answer would be. 

I was thinking the same for a general election. What would the manifesto's be? I will get a better deal than they will. Trust me it will be all right on the night?

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13 minutes ago, Scully said:

Interesting. Can you tell me why a second vote with a clear majority to remain shouldn’t be ignored, yet ignoring the result of the first should be? I’m not inferring you suggested the first should be ignored, but that is what having a second amounts to. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36306681

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12 minutes ago, Scully said:

Interesting. Can you tell me why a second vote with a clear majority to remain shouldn’t be ignored, yet ignoring the result of the first should be? I’m not inferring you suggested the first should be ignored, but that is what having a second amounts to. 

I think we're now (finally) in the position where everyone knows what Brexit would actually mean. Now a deal's been effectively squashed, it's Hard Brexit or Remain. Most people on here are hard deal Brexiteers, so it's not much of an issue, but plenty of people - particularly those in business - voted to leave on the premise of getting a better, fairer trading deal with the EU. If a majority is gained by remain that showed that, given the choice more people wanted to remain rather than to leave with no deal, that should be accepted - it is after all a demonstration of the will of the people. But by a clear majority, I'd want to see it 55+. But I still think there has to be more of a desire for it than there currently is. Right now it's just the classic remoaners. I don't see a clear desire in terms of concerted, coordinated rallies across the country, or areas that voted to leave suddenly switching. 

 

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6 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I think we're now (finally) in the position where everyone knows what Brexit would actually mean. Now a deal's been effectively squashed, it's Hard Brexit or Remain. Most people on here are hard deal Brexiteers, so it's not much of an issue, but plenty of people - particularly those in business - voted to leave on the premise of getting a better, fairer trading deal with the EU. If a majority is gained by remain that showed that, given the choice more people wanted to remain rather than to leave with no deal, that should be accepted - it is after all a demonstration of the will of the people. But by a clear majority, I'd want to see it 55+. But I still think there has to be more of a desire for it than there currently is. Right now it's just the classic remoaners. I don't see a clear desire in terms of concerted, coordinated rallies across the country, or areas that voted to leave suddenly switching. 

 

Thanks. I’m still not convinced anyone has any definitive idea what Brexit would actually mean however, nor of the consequences.

Again, on the local news ( Look North ) last night was a businessman whose company dealt with several EU countries who was all in favour of a no deal Brexit. Someone else claimed the country was in a shambles,  but failed to state why he thought that. Apparently we are the fifth biggest manufacturing nation.....not sure what his idea of successful would be. 

I would like reporters to ask, on nationwide tv, of those who want another vote, what they would propose if it gave the same result. 

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Tonight the Tories have opened up three tranches of candidate selections for the least-winnable seats across the country. The ones that you’d only normally select right before a general election…

Although this decision was taken before the result of the confidence vote, this shows the Tories are firmly getting on an election footing. The seats are all set to have fast-track selections with CCHQ aiming to have a candidate in place in every seat by the end of the month. Whether people want to become candidates for unwinnable seats with no guarantee of an upcoming election is another matter…

Source:  Guido Fawkes   www.order-order.   And he is very rarely wrong!

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May is about to launch a General Election!  She will suspend Article 50 whilst doing so, then hope for a bigger majority! She is totally DEMENTED! Surrounded by yes men, she thinks she can win.....No chance! Batten down the hatches, Corbyn is coming!

38 minutes ago, oowee said:

I was thinking the same for a general election. What would the manifesto's be? I will get a better deal than they will. Trust me it will be all right on the night?

There will not be a LEAVE option on a new referendum..........Just Remain, or May,s Deal! The self-abusers in Parliament will NEVER give you the opportunity to defeat them again!

33 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I think we're now (finally) in the position where everyone knows what Brexit would actually mean. Now a deal's been effectively squashed, it's Hard Brexit or Remain. Most people on here are hard deal Brexiteers, so it's not much of an issue, but plenty of people - particularly those in business - voted to leave on the premise of getting a better, fairer trading deal with the EU. If a majority is gained by remain that showed that, given the choice more people wanted to remain rather than to leave with no deal, that should be accepted - it is after all a demonstration of the will of the people. But by a clear majority, I'd want to see it 55+. But I still think there has to be more of a desire for it than there currently is. Right now it's just the classic remoaners. I don't see a clear desire in terms of concerted, coordinated rallies across the country, or areas that voted to leave suddenly switching. 

 

No one voted LEAVE to get a better trading deal with the EU ! That is a delusion!

34 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I think we're now (finally) in the position where everyone knows what Brexit would actually mean. Now a deal's been effectively squashed, it's Hard Brexit or Remain. Most people on here are hard deal Brexiteers, so it's not much of an issue, but plenty of people - particularly those in business - voted to leave on the premise of getting a better, fairer trading deal with the EU. If a majority is gained by remain that showed that, given the choice more people wanted to remain rather than to leave with no deal, that should be accepted - it is after all a demonstration of the will of the people. But by a clear majority, I'd want to see it 55+. But I still think there has to be more of a desire for it than there currently is. Right now it's just the classic remoaners. I don't see a clear desire in terms of concerted, coordinated rallies across the country, or areas that voted to leave suddenly switching. 

 

We have had a demonstration of "the will of the people"  and we know what happened to that ! Keep having referendums until they get the result they want?  No thanks!

13 minutes ago, Scully said:

Thanks. I’m still not convinced anyone has any definitive idea what Brexit would actually mean however, nor of the consequences.

Again, on the local news ( Look North ) last night was a businessman whose company dealt with several EU countries who was all in favour of a no deal Brexit. Someone else claimed the country was in a shambles,  but failed to state why he thought that. Apparently we are the fifth biggest manufacturing nation.....not sure what his idea of successful would be. 

I would like reporters to ask, on nationwide tv, of those who want another vote, what they would propose if it gave the same result. 

You would not get the same result, as LEAVE would not be on the ballot paper!

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Ex-Labour MP John Woodcock has told MPs that he won’t be backing the no confidence motion in Theresa May tonight, instead dropping a truth bomb about Corbyn’s total unfitness to be Prime Minister:

With a heavy heart I have to tell the House that I cannot support the no confidence motion tonight. Some of my friends mutter disgrace, I hear some of them tutting, I have to say that many of them have privately said “Thank God that you have got the freedom to actually not support this”. Because they are wrestling with their consciences of wanting definitely a Labour Government, knowing that the leader of their party is as unfit to lead the country as he was when they voted against him in the no confidence motion of the party those years ago.

More than a few of his former Labour Party colleagues know he’s right…

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Frustrated Tory activists have been left bemused to discover that the Conservative Party has deemed them not welcome at the party’s Spring Forum this year. Emails have been going out to members informing them that only the party’s National Convention has been invited to attend the annual gathering in February. The Spring Forum has always been a popular get-together in committed activists’ calendars, they are very disappointed to be left out…

The National Convention is a select group of party activists limited to Association Chairmen and area and regional officers, rank-and-file activists have been told that they must get express permission from their Association Chairman if they wish to attend. Looks suspiciously like CCHQ trying to cover off the threat a large-scale grassroots insurrection of party members just one month before the UK is due to leave the EU…

Breaking news................iGerman Chancellor Angela Merkel has said there is still time for more Brexit negotiations to take place before the UK leaves the organisation. Contrary to what some proponents of May’s original deal have been trying to tell us

The BBC’s Norman Smith is reporting that Liam Fox’s Department for International Trade “has been told to drop everything else and just focus on No deal planning as the most likely outcome.” Lots of Brexiteers are cheering this news…

Guido thinks they are cheering too soon. Presumably the calculation now is that either we head toward no deal… or the new deal that passes a Commons vote with Labour backing hinges on membership of the EU’s customs union, and therefore the department will be shut down as surplus to requirements.

There are about 80 members of the ERG. May’s deal lost by 230. Either the clock runs down to no deal, which would require steel heretofore unseen in the PM, or Number 10 folds to the demands of our Remain voting parliament, and commits to a customs union. Bleak.

UPDATE: A DIT insider confirms that the Department is now focusing heavily on no deal preparations. It appears to be less of a surprise to the staff there than it is to the press…

UPDATE II: Another DIT source also confirms that DIT is now focused on no deal preparations, although this is only an intensification of the work they have already been doing for years to prepare for all eventualities. They point out that the Department would still have a role to promote British exports even if the undesirable situation of a customs union arose…

Source    Guido Fawkes

Irish Foreign Minister and Tánaiste Simon Coveney has been caught on tape saying to Irish Transport Minister Shane Ross that checks on goods will be introduced in the event of a no deal Brexit, and even suggested that those checks “could be in the sea.” He said that he couldn’t publicly acknowledge this for fear of a backlash…

The two members of the Irish Government were talking at the end of press briefing, apparently not realising that the microphone was still live.

The Independent.ie has transcribed the conversation:

Shane Ross: “Yeah. The border one, should I not have said that?”

[This is a reference to a question Mr Ross was asked about whether a truck travelling from Scotland by boat to Larne could then proceed to the Republic without any checks. During the press briefing, he replied: “I would anticipate that there would be checks.”]

Simon Coveney: “Yes, but we can’t get into where they’ll be at this stage. They could be in the sea, they could be… But once you start talking about checks anywhere near the border, people will start delving into that and all of a sudden we’ll be the government that reintroduced a physical border on the island of Ireland.”

Shane Ross: “Yeah, but I didn’t know what to say.”

This reveals a certain disingenuousness on the Irish government’s part because any prospect of checks at a land border would play into Sinn Fein’s hands and is politically unacceptable to the Irish government. Any prospect of a sea border would inflame the DUP/ERG and is politically unacceptable to the UK government. Unless the checks are going to be across the Celtic Sea between Ireland and the EU26…

Source   Guido Fawkes

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Sandy Martin, the Labour MP who won Ipswich in 2017 by just 836 votes, has told local radio that he knows better than his own constituents, 57% of whom voted Leave.

“You know better than your constituents then?”

Sandy Martin: “Yeah, okay.”

Guido knows a lot of them think this, but it’s rare to have an MP so brazenly admit it. Probably won’t do his reelection bid much good…

Arrogant sod! What,s the betting he goes at the next election!

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1 hour ago, pinfireman said:

May is about to launch a General Election!  She will suspend Article 50 whilst doing so, then hope for a bigger majority! She is totally DEMENTED! Surrounded by yes men, she thinks she can win.....No chance! Batten down the hatches, Corbyn is coming!

 

Nope.

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If we don't get Brexit, the country will have already been screwed over and totally ruined, so I'll vote labour just to have a swipe back at the Tory elite and remainers.

Ploticians ought to realise that pensioners don't have too much to lose anyway and are more likely to dish out some nasty payback out of pure spite.

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4 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

If we don't get Brexit, the country will have already been screwed over and totally ruined, so I'll vote labour just to have a swipe back at the Tory elite and remainers.

Ploticians ought to realise that pensioners don't have too much to lose anyway and are more likely to dish out some nasty payback out of pure spite.

Sadly cutting off nose to spite face as JC will wreck the whole country for generations

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I'm going to float an unpopular opinion. (and as I have said - I have been 100% wrong so far) 

Mrs May isn't stupid. There said it. 

Ignore everything said by every politician for the last two years. Be May for a bit and play the numbers . 

You have to negotiate a deal with the EU. For various reasons this deal will likely favour the EU. Mainly because the 27 leaders can't lose face and need to counter the rising anti EU sentiment in their own countries. Likelyhood of getting a bad deal for the UK about 70-80% no matter what you do. Plus you face mass Labour opposition that would vote against pretty much everything and anything you do. 

No deal brexit  hurts the EU. A deal that would be favourable for the UK would be preferable but unlikely (see above). 

EU don't believe you have the balls to go no deal, plus no deal is very unlikely to get parliamentary support off the bat. 

Therefore you get the deal you can. (never know. Might work) 

Prepare for no deal. (notice how various parties that started moaning about lack of plan 18 months ago are now mysteriously quiet?) 

Present the terrible deal to the British public. It gets rejected by Parliament. Not a surprise 

Yesterday/Today by probability was the most likely outcome from two years ago. Can't tell me that wasn't seen coming from miles away. 

Now May's job is simple. Return to the EU. You have public mandate to leave. Parliamentary mandate to reject the current deal which the EU have told you is the only one. Sorry gents, hard exit is the only option left. 

It's a case of who blinks now. But I bet the UK is better prepared for a no deal exit than the EU. 

It would appear that Merkel is already requesting the UK to go back to the table. 

Edited by Lord v
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Just now, mick miller said:

I think we need the wisdom of cat... no often favoured on these pages, but sage wisdom nonetheless...

image.png.e7fa0d96081193f606c2fbaa0fcf02a7.png

Ha ha😅👏 

 

1 hour ago, Lord v said:

I'm going to float an unpopular opinion. (and as I have said - I have been 100% wrong so far) 

Mrs May isn't stupid. There said it. 

Ignore everything said by every politician for the last two years. Be May for a bit and play the numbers . 

You have to negotiate a deal with the EU. For various reasons this deal will likely favour the EU. Mainly because the 27 leaders can't lose face and need to counter the rising anti EU sentiment in their own countries. Likelyhood of getting a bad deal for the UK about 70-80% no matter what you do. Plus you face mass Labour opposition that would vote against pretty much everything and anything you do. 

No deal brexit  hurts the EU. A deal that would be favourable for the UK would be preferable but unlikely (see above). 

EU don't believe you have the balls to go no deal, plus no deal is very unlikely to get parliamentary support off the bat. 

Therefore you get the deal you can. (never know. Might work) 

Prepare for no deal. (notice how various parties that started moaning about lack of plan 18 months ago are now mysteriously quiet?) 

Present the terrible deal to the British public. It gets rejected by Parliament. Not a surprise 

Yesterday/Today by probability was the most likely outcome from two years ago. Can't tell me that wasn't seen coming from miles away. 

Now May's job is simple. Return to the EU. You have public mandate to leave. Parliamentary mandate to reject the current deal which the EU have told you is the only one. Sorry gents, hard exit is the only option left. 

It's a case of who blinks now. But I bet the UK is better prepared for a no deal exit than the EU. 

It would appear that Merkel is already requesting the UK to go back to the table. 

Sounds like a plan, Mrs May can guarantee that no matter what she say's Corbyn will shout and bang his fists disagreeing with her.

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3 hours ago, Lord v said:

 It would appear that Merkel is already requesting the UK to go back to the table. 

Where's that come from please?

4 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Sadly cutting off nose to spite face as JC will wreck the whole country for generations

Instead of EU taking us with it when it sinks?

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14 hours ago, Scully said:

On the local news tonight was a labour MP who is in favour of a 2nd referendum if a GE wasn’t forthcoming. I haven’t heard one reporter yet, ask of anyone of this persuasion.....’and what happens if a 2nd referendum results in a ‘leave’ majority again?’. Why isn’t anyone asking this question? I’d love to know what the answer would be. 

People who are asking for a second referendum (or a peoples vote for that matter) are clearly remainers with an agenda to overturn the result of the first referendum and the subsequent election. Why else would they want one? Many of the suggestions for a peoples vote have put forward questions for the ballot paper that are very obviously loaded towards remain by dividing the leave vote in one way or another.

Yet its funny, they don't want to demand that the EU nationals, including the Irish, on the electoral register be prevented from voting this time should there be one. 

Nobody is talking about the anarchy that would result from such a blatently undemocratic attempt to hijack the process of democracy. Do they really think we would just say "Oh well, that's that then"?

Edited by Vince Green
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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Yup. 

Read past the language of ramping up pressure on May etc etc. 

Merkel wants the UK back at the negotiating table. 

I'm not seeing TM bending on ruling out no deal last night. 

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On Tuesday, Mrs May lost a vote on her deal by a huge margin.  Corbyn's Opposition called for a vote of 'no confidence'.

Critics accused Mrs May of not 'reaching out' and talking to other parties.  Corbyn was asked in an interview on Tuesday evening if he had been invited to any talks with Mrs May.  He said 'no' and made a big deal of the fact that he hadn't been asked (and did a very good impression of being 'hurt').

On Wednesday, Mrs May's Government won the vote of confidence.  Afterwards she said that she had listened and would invite all other 'major players' to talks (I think individually) to try and get 'a deal' that would pass in Parliament.  The LibDems, the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the DUP have been to talks - and those I have heard interviewed afterwards have been sensible and 'not negative' ........... but Corbyn wasn't there.  He had been invited, but declined, saying he won't attend until she takes "no deal" off the table - which would be a 'precondition' to him attending any talks. 

She cannot do that without giving away her biggest bargaining card in EU talks because the EU doesn't want a "no deal" - they would be losers (as well? depending on your view).

If Corbyn doesn't want to talk, I suspect there are others in his party who might talk, those representing constituencies who voted leave.

I wonder what preconditions he laid down before meeting Jerry Adams or some of the other 'undesirables' he has been so chatty with for talks?

What preconditions would he give Juncker before he attended any talks IF he was ever P.M.?

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