Brexit - merged threads

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

The only problem is, theyve spent the last 70 years rebuilding the reich .
Its almost as if we wasted our time..money and blood.

we've helped them do it, absolute madness. 

Nearly half of the UK has Stockholme syndrome! 

[Rewulf]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

we've helped them do it, absolute madness. 

Maybe they think 3rd time lucky ?

There were some reports a few years ago of German politicians discussing whether they should have some nukes, to defend themselves from Russia obviously 

I think not.

[Newbie to this]

53 minutes ago, ditchman said:

how on earth did we get so sucked into the EU over so many years without the politicos seeing what was happening is beyond me.........christ they are like a legalised mafia..

Our politicos knew what was going to happen, they filled the evidence away under the official secrets act. Then took us in anyway!

[SpringDon]

8 hours ago, Scully said:

<snip>

Can anyone ( I've actually lost count now of the times I've asked and been ignored ) enlighten me as to what this 'abyss' consists of ? 

For goodness sake! It’s not difficult, the abyss is the barren wasteland where we would have the impossible task of finding countries prepared to sell more to us than we sell to them and where the horror of 20% cheaper agricultural  produce lurks.

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

For goodness sake! It’s not difficult, the abyss is the barren wasteland where we would have the impossible task of finding countries prepared to sell more to us than we sell to them and where the horror of 20% cheaper agricultural  produce lurks.

😂

Its hilarious isn't it, we're like a customer with our pockets stuffed full of cash, but we're afraid to leave the EU shop incase the other shops won't let us in, like that's going to happen! 

[Scully]

41 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

For goodness sake! It’s not difficult, the abyss is the barren wasteland where we would have the impossible task of finding countries prepared to sell more to us than we sell to them and where the horror of 20% cheaper agricultural  produce lurks.

Ah, I see. Cheers. 👍

[ditchman]

41 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

For goodness sake! It’s not difficult, the abyss is the barren wasteland where we would have the impossible task of finding countries prepared to sell more to us than we sell to them and where the horror of 20% cheaper agricultural  produce lurks.

the "abyss"............is the hole in the ground with Barnier...Tusk....et al....in it..................and that is the one place i look forward to emptying my bottom in

[das]

9 hours ago, Scully said:

I'll also settle for a deal if it means we definitely leave, and includes absolutely no interference from the EU in UK matters, nor costs us anything. I have no objection to trading with the EU at all. 

Can anyone ( I've actually lost count now of the times I've asked and been ignored ) enlighten me as to what this 'abyss' consists of ? 

A big deep hole that you fall into and can never B*****y well get out of.
Just like that B*****y  EU.

[ditchman]

3 minutes ago, das said:

A big deep hole that you fall into and can never B*****y well get out of.
Just like that B*****y  EU.

its alright you can say bloody....dosnt attract any points.............................(yet)

[das]

1 minute ago, ditchman said:

its alright you can say bloody....dosnt attract any points.............................(yet)

Thanks Ditchman, when the **** hits the fan on 29/3/18 we may all be able to say what the hell we want.

[JRDS]

What last year, did we miss something

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

The only problem is, theyve spent the last 70 years rebuilding the reich .
Its almost as if we wasted our time..money and blood.

Its as if we're apologising for not being defeated.

3 hours ago, ditchman said:

just listened to Michelle Barnier...............god they are intransigent..................im mortally sick of the whole thing and i think alot of other people are too..........i just want shot of this lot ASAP.....even if it means we suffer short term pain..............

how on earth did we get so sucked into the EU over so many years without the politicos seeing what was happening is beyond me.........christ they are like a legalised mafia..

i cant even begin to understand what all the made up fuss is all about...and really , now i dont care.........i feel like a person who is about to go self employed after working and being turned over by a big employer for so many years.....................and a little bit down the line after a bit of pain and worry , i will be thinking to myself.."should have done this a long while ago...what a fool ive been"

 

...............

Very good Ditchy, nail head.

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Garbage in garbage out.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Cadbury was bought by Kraft, which is American. Kraft shafted Cadbury. The EU had nothing to do with it.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cadbury-closes-british-factory-to-move-101746

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

This is the only one that seems to have some truth in it. Ford did get a loan (not a grant) from the EU for their Turkish plant (which was already building most of the Transits), and after that their Southampton plant closed. The EU had already loaned money to Ford UK but that doesn’t appear to have saved it.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.Focus_on_Ford__The___80m_EU_loan_for_Ford_s_Turkish_Transit_plant/

JLR is being investigated by the EU over the government grant so answered and it goes on. I could answer them all. The Hornby project I know and there was no EU money involved. There is a thriving games industry in the UK, Sega, Lanner, DCA design to name a few. 

I do not have the time and inclination to go through them all. Cutting and pasting garbage does not make it true. 

 

 

You might say there "loans" not grants, but which every they are i bet the terms are fantastic. How many industries have the EU brought to the UK to the detriment of countries in proper Europe?? All these businesses leaving our shores weaken us making us dependant on others.

I don't doubt that unions didn't help, I've been there and seen it first hand, being made redundant four or five times and in most cases the work carries on in another country.

[ditchman]

45 minutes ago, das said:

Thanks Ditchman, when the **** hits the fan on 29/3/18 we may all be able to say what the hell we want.

we will be able to say..."them damn froggies"...."the wicked bosh"....or "little jonny forieghner"..............

and i will shout from the highest ground.......................

"OH FRABJOUS DAY..!...CALLOOH CALLAY.............."

"TWAS BRILLIG, AND THE SLITHY TOVES DID GYRE AND GIMBLE IN THE WABE....ALL MIMSY WERE THE BOROGROVES AND THE MOME RATHES OUTGRABE" 

 and once again i will know what it is to feel truly British and free................

 

 

 

 

(ive got Brexit fever)

[JDog]

9 minutes ago, ditchman said:

we will be able to say..."them damn froggies"...."the wicked bosh"....or "little jonny forieghner"..............

and i will shout from the highest ground.......................

"OH FRABJOUS DAY..!...CALLOOH CALLAY.............."

"TWAS BRILLIG, AND THE SLITHY TOVES DID GYRE AND GIMBLE IN THE WABE....ALL MIMSY WERE THE BOROGROVES AND THE MOME RATHES OUTGRABE" 

 and once again i will know what it is to feel truly British and free................

 

 

 

 

(ive got Brexit fever)

Ditchy, I’ve read a few of your posts on this subject and I really can’t decide which side you are on.

[ditchman]

47 minutes ago, JDog said:

Ditchy, I’ve read a few of your posts on this subject and I really can’t decide which side you are on.

....oh pray tilly forgive me.................i was being a bit coy.....

[pinfireman]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

Good business is globalism. BMW engines are made at Hams hall. JLR is to make new battery facilities on the same site. No EU money was involved in teh JLR favcility in SK indeed quite the opposite. The EU (bless their righteousness) are investigating the funding deal to see if it breached state aid rules. I am fed up of saying this now. The EU do not move companies about.

No, they just make it easy for them! With a few "incentives".....................

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I suppose they didnt move that one then https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.focus-on-ford-the-80m-eu-loan-for-fords-turkish-transit-plant/

Im sure youve seen this before but here you go again

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/74ab02a6-fd85-11df-a049-00144feab49a

An interesting look at EU funding in 2016, the more green the less you get , the more red..well ,you get the idea

Spot on!

7 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Sorry to correct you Rewulf but you should have said "with ILLEGAL EU Grant"

And where does the "grant" money come from?  It comes from us!  The British taxpayer! The economics of the madhouse!

[12gauge82]

any remainers that look at that map above and think the UK being an EU member is good for the common man needs an eye test! 

[pinfireman]

6 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Ironic really, when you consider that Britain was one of the chief advocates of eastward expansion.

Anyway, it's all irrelevant now. Post Brexit, the EU will continue to offer incentives for inward investment to less well-off areas, with the added bonus of a manufacturer then having favoured access to the Single Market of 300 million people. Companies can also move components, inventory, labour, and finance seamlessly across the borders of 27 countries, and into the EEA as well. Where are they going to site any new plant? UK or Europe? It's a no-brainer. As your man Mitford said, it's goodbye to British manufacturing. 

But s price worth paying.

 

They will have difficulty offering "incentives"  (your pal oowee says they don,t give grants, but I guess you know better), as they will NOT have our billions to do it with. And I cannot see the German or French public being happy to stump the money!  The rest of the EU will not chip in, as most of them do not have a pot to p in!

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

It's goodbye if we stay, as has been amply demonstrated over the past 40 years! 

At least this way we have a chance to rebuild it. 

Who knows, after brexit the ex pat rules might get relaxed enough to let you back in? 😂 and you can help with that.

Nah....he will not want to pay tax!

6 hours ago, Retsdon said:

You can't blame the EU for the demise of British manufacturing. We were the 'sick man of Europe' before we even joined. Bad management and short-term thinking have been the curse of British industry for donkeys years.

True, but the EU took full advantage to that. As the sick man, surely WE should have had the new factories here, with EU grants? Plus, like oowee, you fail to mention the part that the unions, with Labour help, created a lot of the problems for manufacturing here!

[pinfireman]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Garbage in garbage out.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Cadbury was bought by Kraft, which is American. Kraft shafted Cadbury. The EU had nothing to do with it.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cadbury-closes-british-factory-to-move-101746

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

This is the only one that seems to have some truth in it. Ford did get a loan (not a grant) from the EU for their Turkish plant (which was already building most of the Transits), and after that their Southampton plant closed. The EU had already loaned money to Ford UK but that doesn’t appear to have saved it.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.Focus_on_Ford__The___80m_EU_loan_for_Ford_s_Turkish_Transit_plant/

JLR is being investigated by the EU over the government grant so answered and it goes on. I could answer them all. The Hornby project I know and there was no EU money involved. There is a thriving games industry in the UK, Sega, Lanner, DCA design to name a few. 

I do not have the time and inclination to go through them all. Cutting and pasting garbage does not make it true. 

 

 

A "loan"?  What,s the betting Ford never have to pay back the "loan"?   It,s a grant by any other name! And if you do not do the research, how can you call it garbage? It,s a cop out!

5 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Which is why I don't bother to do it for your posts.

Nice one!

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

And why were we the sick man of Europe?

Because we helped liberate them from tyranny, only finally paying off our war debt in the 90s, we rationed into the 50s, while other countries were either invaded or went impartial. 

The UK has payed its debt to Europe and then some, both financially and in blood, the EU really does have a cheek. 

Very, very true! The British taxpayer paid for Germany,s defence for decades!

[pinfireman]

3 hours ago, SpringDon said:

For goodness sake! It’s not difficult, the abyss is the barren wasteland where we would have the impossible task of finding countries prepared to sell more to us than we sell to them and where the horror of 20% cheaper agricultural  produce lurks.

So it,s a fantasy land dreamed up by Remoaners? The losers?

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Its as if we're apologising for not being defeated.

Very good Ditchy, nail head.

You might say there "loans" not grants, but which every they are i bet the terms are fantastic. How many industries have the EU brought to the UK to the detriment of countries in proper Europe?? All these businesses leaving our shores weaken us making us dependant on others.

I don't doubt that unions didn't help, I've been there and seen it first hand, being made redundant four or five times and in most cases the work carries on in another country.

True!

[Vince Green]

Its not complicated, the question is very simple "do we make or do we lose money by being a member of the EU?"

not even oowee could suggest that we make money out of being a member

now another question "So whats the point in staying ?" 

 

and another thing while I am at it,  any form of intervention to move companies is against the EU's own constitution if the move results in closure or job loses in the original country. They can only facilitate expansion. Not that they ever give companies inducement to move...……………….. Oowee says they don't, the FT says they do, but what do they know?

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Vince Green

[old man]

12 hours ago, ditchman said:

we will be able to say..."them damn froggies"...."the wicked bosh"....or "little jonny forieghner"..............

and i will shout from the highest ground.......................

"OH FRABJOUS DAY..!...CALLOOH CALLAY.............."

"TWAS BRILLIG, AND THE SLITHY TOVES DID GYRE AND GIMBLE IN THE WABE....ALL MIMSY WERE THE BOROGROVES AND THE MOME RATHES OUTGRABE" 

 and once again i will know what it is to feel truly British and free................

 

 

 

 

(ive got Brexit fever)

Steady on ditchy, you are now spouting the same unintelligible carp as the EU? 

[SpringDon]

10 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its not complicated, the question is very simple "do we make or do we lose money by being a member of the EU?"

not even oowee could suggest that we make money out of being a member

now another question "So whats the point in staying ?" 

 

and another thing while I am at it,  any form of intervention to move companies is against the EU's own constitution if the move results in closure or job loses in the original country. They can only facilitate expansion. Not that they ever give companies inducement to move...……………….. Oowee says they don't, the FT says they do, but what do they know?

 

That about sums it up for me. The eu as a trading bloc works by protecting its market and negotiating as a bloc. The eu as a supranational political entity cannot work because there is no extra money to pay for it unless national governments are subsumed by it.

And on the subject of company inducements, there is a pretty blurred line between grants and loans. Particularly if the company does not receive money directly but the infrastructure of the “new” area receives regional development grants. This is paying a company to move but with a slightly different hat on.

[12gauge82]

Bit of a lengthy video, but it shows the EU commission stating that the UK will still need to pay the 39billion even in the event of a no deal, they are literally gangsters, they must be absolutely drunk. 

When the UK joined the EU in the first place, the UK payed for future projects and costs already arranged and we are payed up to date, including giving them effectively their 2y notice period, containing to pay during that time, we owe them nothing moraly and as has already been looked at, nothing legally either, time to get tough and tell them to shove it, they're getting nothing, here's hoping for a no deal brexit. 

 

[panoma1]

If the EU want money for future projects, the U.K. should demand the return of the money the U.K. Gave the EU for projects outwith the U.K. Which the UK has financially contributed to over the years of EU membership!