Gordon R Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Blackstone - Your point being? Edited March 13, 2019 by Gordon R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, Gordon R said: The first para is pure stupidity. The second para is laughable. Is Diane Abbott one of the "experts". They are ordinary people, with expertise in very little. How many of these pigs with their nose in a trough have attended any committee meetings? I assume this is just a wind up. Gordon I agree, most MPs couldn't run a chip shop, which is why they became MPs I suspect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Thanks for the Nigel Farage video. Hard to argue with what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 hours ago, oowee said: There were no alternative leave proposals put forward by the Tories. There are no credible proposals from the opposition. There is somewhere a leave deal that would suit the majority of the house. This will require some tough choices. The house has no mechanism to define it only to shout down what it does not like. PS who voted for zero tariff on imported steel? 🙄 The Leave Deal should satisfy the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE, not the sodding House! MPs are the Servants of the people! 3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: We don't need the house to decide, the choice has already been directly made by the people when it was put to them in a referendum. Anything less than leaving the EU and all its core rules is overturning the referendum result. Correct! Irrespective of what the troughers in Westminster decide, the fight goes on until we are OUT! 3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Labours Six Tests were written purely as a "backside covering exercise" in that they can always now say they were clear on what they would support and none of May's various offerings (or for that matter anyone else's sensible proposals) don't pass their six tests so can't be supported. The fact that they are completely impractical and impossible won't matter to Labours voters ........ remember these are the voters who would vote for Diane Abbott. Anyone who genuinely believes that Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and Thornberry could run a Government will not quibble over a little thing like being 'totally impractical' They could not run a bath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 hours ago, oowee said: And that is the point of the discussion. There is no agreement on what it is we voted for because the question posted by the referendum has a range of answers. It was many things to many people and parliament is reflecting this back at the voters. 👍 It's also true of many Tory voters. I would struggle to vote for Mogg who has refused to represent his constituents and has been an architect of the sad state of affairs that is this government and the whole brexit process. Rubbish as usual! Mogg honours the majority vote of the British people! Not a bunch of Remoaners living in a rural backwater! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Blackstone are you Granett by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Rubbish as usual! Mogg honours the majority vote of the British people! Not a bunch of Remoaners living in a rural backwater! Strange I thought. 'MPs are the Servants of the people'! Edited March 13, 2019 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Blackstone said: The referendum has no power to bind Parliament (nothing does, that's basically the one sentence summary of our uncodified constitution). Parliament doesn't want to leave, and therefore in theory we should just be done here. It's a representative democracy, we elect these people to be more informed than us on our behalf and to make these informed decisions for us. They absolutely should listen to us, but they shouldn't come to us with major complex decisions. After all, isn't one of the main reasons for Leaving to retain our Sovereignty? And what is Sovereign? Parliament is. The case for a second referendum is the case for political cowardice and abdication of responsibility. They're not willing to slavishly bow to the result and vote for the deal, but they're also not willing to tell the British people that 4% more people got it wrong than got it right (it's not even saying the British people got it wrong ***). So instead they're going to do nothing and wait for the British people to tell them it's okay to do their ******* jobs. They're too proud to follow to the British people and too cowardly to lead the British people. We don't need a second referendum, we need Parliament to show some ******* leadership and hold a Parliamentary vote on withdrawing Article 50. It's not up to the British people, it's up to them, that's how the system works. If you're an MP who wants to remain then you can stand up there and cast your vote for remain and let your constituents judge you for it. This political paralysis is by far the most embarrassing thing about Brexit. Imagine the unlikely scenario of another leave vote. Are they just going to refuse to act for another two years and then hold a third referendum? How long must this farce continue? If tomorrow May introduced a bill to withdraw Article 50 and withdrew the whip they'd all be forced to make a clear and public choice between the looming no deal Brexit and Remain. Their constituents may judge them for that choice, hell, some of them may lose their seats, but it'd be better than this mess. So what was the point of the referendum with only two options then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: Looks to me like the EU are playing a blinder and parliament have either let them or the govt have some kind of pact with them on an outcome. Now that the deal hasn't passed I can see no deal being dropped, parliament voting for an extension which the EU reject in an attempt to revoke article 50. I thought there would be concessions on the deal and the one good thing about it going through would have been that both sides could have justifiably felt more or less equally aggrieved, it might have even united the public in their outrage. I'm in the US at the moment and the only thing stopping yanks openly laughing in my face is they know we have the "Trump" card in our back pockets - as an aside, in all my trips and discussions here I am yet to find a single person in Michigan who admits to voting for Trump. Some even suggest that they don't know anyone who did... Strange! All my recent trips throughout the western states have brought me into contact with many of his supporters, who point out that since he became President, the economy has boomed! Who was it who said, "It,s the economy, stupud?" 2 hours ago, oowee said: Cancel my holiday then 😂 The worst of Brexiteers are the uneducated ones. How silly a remark! 2 hours ago, Blackstone said: A referendum that was advisory and not legally binding. The govt and parliament accepted this and went to negotiate an exit deal. Unsurprisingly, many of the things that the Leave campaign promised were simply not true. A trade deal with the EU was not the "easiest in history" to strike, and it certainly can't be done in an afternoon. If Brexiteers are so confident that the Will of the People is to leave, then why are they so afraid of a second vote, now that the People are much better informed as to the consequences? Bring on the hate mail That is total garbage! At no stage was it ever mentioned that it was "advisory" and you know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, pinfireman said: How silly a remark! What? Worse than the one that it was in response too? I like most on here make the point not to be insulting but when the remarks are insulting then..... i make no apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Blackstone said: The referendum has no power to bind Parliament (nothing does, that's basically the one sentence summary of our uncodified constitution). Parliament doesn't want to leave, and therefore in theory we should just be done here. It's a representative democracy, we elect these people to be more informed than us on our behalf and to make these informed decisions for us. They absolutely should listen to us, but they shouldn't come to us with major complex decisions. After all, isn't one of the main reasons for Leaving to retain our Sovereignty? And what is Sovereign? Parliament is. The case for a second referendum is the case for political cowardice and abdication of responsibility. They're not willing to slavishly bow to the result and vote for the deal, but they're also not willing to tell the British people that 4% more people got it wrong than got it right (it's not even saying the British people got it wrong ***). So instead they're going to do nothing and wait for the British people to tell them it's okay to do their ******* jobs. They're too proud to follow to the British people and too cowardly to lead the British people. We don't need a second referendum, we need Parliament to show some ******* leadership and hold a Parliamentary vote on withdrawing Article 50. It's not up to the British people, it's up to them, that's how the system works. If you're an MP who wants to remain then you can stand up there and cast your vote for remain and let your constituents judge you for it. This political paralysis is by far the most embarrassing thing about Brexit. Imagine the unlikely scenario of another leave vote. Are they just going to refuse to act for another two years and then hold a third referendum? How long must this farce continue? If tomorrow May introduced a bill to withdraw Article 50 and withdrew the whip they'd all be forced to make a clear and public choice between the looming no deal Brexit and Remain. Their constituents may judge them for that choice, hell, some of them may lose their seats, but it'd be better than this mess. Parliament is NOT Sovereign....the people are sovereign! 2 hours ago, oowee said: This IS democracy in action. Our elected members are not making decisions on our behalf. So what our "elected members" decide is democratic, but the result of our vote isn,t? 2 hours ago, Blackstone said: What is "democracy" anyway? Straight democracy allows the majority to bully and oppress the minority. Your idea of democracy is not how the British democratic system works. Why do we elect representatives to make difficult decisions for us? Because the vast majority of us don't have time to become experts in subjects outside of what is applicable to our everyday lives (jobs and hobbies). The job of our representatives is to be informed. By sitting in Committees listening to the people who are experts. So now majorities are bullies? Garbage, total garbage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Eyefor said: More of this please Correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Parliament is NOT Sovereign....the people are sovereign! So what our "elected members" decide is democratic, but the result of our vote isn,t? Nope Parliament is soverign the people merely put it there. They are the result of the vote in the GE. The Brexit vote was democratic but not binding. Our democratically elected government have decided to respect the referendum, but are currently doing not a lot. Fortunately every day of delay is a step away from the abyss. Edited March 13, 2019 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, oowee said: Fortunately every day of delay is a step away from the abyss. Ha ha , thats what you think , take the leap of faith ! May has instructed her party to keep no deal on the table at tonights vote. Embrace the darkness 25 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Blackstone are you Granett by any chance? Damn I miss Granett 😃 But no I dont think its him, hes not condescending enough ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Ha ha , thats what you think , take the leap of faith ! May has instructed her party to keep no deal on the table at tonights vote. Embrace the darkness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Bring back KW..................all is forgiven....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 BBC just stated it looks like MP’s are about to vote for us to leave with no deal 🤔 CLEAR THE CHAMBER! THANK GOD May has told the party not to take No Deal off the table. How you you negotiate if you tell the other side if you don’t get what you want, you’ll stay! Madness!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 10 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: The answer must be something like electing a new Pope. Lock all MPs in the Commons, close all the bars and restaurants to serve basic food only (e.g. meat, boiled taties and two veg) until they come up with a cast iron way of completing the referendum outcome. Oh - and no salary until done either as they won't need it locked in there. No result in 1 week - remove 'basic food' and replace by MacDonalds. That should sort the wretches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, das said: No wages it would be done tomorrow, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: Fortunately every day of delay is a step away from the abyss. I’ve asked a few times now but no one seems to be able to answer; just what precisely does this abyss consist of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Newbie to this said: I'll accept a second vote but only if remain isn't on it, we have already had that vote. I'll accept a referendum on May's deal or WTO exit. Anyone who thinks remain should be on it is just simply anti-democratic. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: BBC just stated it looks like MP’s are about to vote for us to leave with no deal 🤔 CLEAR THE CHAMBER! THANK GOD May has told the party not to take No Deal off the table. How you you negotiate if you tell the other side if you don’t get what you want, you’ll stay! Madness!! Well it appears Parliament has just stuck another nail in the brexit coffin, they have voted to rule out no deal under any circumstances with a majority of 4 MPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Looks like its now chose between stay in or a bad deal at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Eyefor said: More of this please I wish I could speak like that to the Tosspots he was. Well done Nigel, a great speech. Edited March 13, 2019 by das Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Well it appears Parliament has just stuck another nail in the brexit coffin, they have voted to rule out no deal under any circumstances with a majority of 4 MPs. Absolute disgrace!! What do they expect to negotiate now? “Give us a better deal or we ... uh... we won’t leave...” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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