Brexit - merged threads

[pinfireman]

6 hours ago, Blackstone said:

Thanks for your reply, I wasn't trying to paint or reinforce a caricature or stereotype of a typical Brexit voter in my mind when I asked about your work situation.

It bothers me that an issue as deeply complex as Brexit was boiled down to a simple Yes/No vote, before we had any idea of what a post-Brexit scenario would really look like. 

No one had an idea of what that scenario would be, except George Osborne and Remain. It,s called Project Fear, and it turned out to be total garbage!

6 hours ago, ditchman said:

the one continuing difference between the in and outs i have words with is..........the remainers say "what about me...my livelhood"....its always about them....and the outers always say "they want a better future for thereir children and grandchilderen" and they do accecpt in the shorterm they will accept a drop in standards...

Excellent summing up!

[pinfireman]

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

As far as I'm aware all UK referendum outcomes are legally non binding

So the 1975 one was not legally binding? Therefore. all EU laws and treaties entered into after that date are null and void?  So we ca just ignore the EU, and walk away.

5 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Some of these votes are testing the water and will come back in for later consideration.

 

The next one up is the extension. All have been close, even the first as approx 230 didn't vote - mainly labour abstaining.

How can it have been close if Labour abstained! That,s rubbish!

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Theyre going in to vote on in now..

 

 

 

 

 

The Labour Front Bench, without Abbott!

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Something to look forward to then 

I guess you will be leading the choir?

[pinfireman]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Technically, the Brexit referendum is an advisory referendum: even if Parliament had agreed to be bound by the result of that vote, one of the fundamental characteristics of a parliamentary body is that any decision a parliamentary body makes, it can subsequently unmake. Thus, even if Parliament had agreed to be bound by the referendum (which it did not), Parliament could still, in its considered opinion, receive the result of the referendum and move not to accept the results but to instead strike the language in which it previously agreed to accept the result. This is because Parliament has what is called “parliamentary sovereignty”: Parliament, and only Parliament (in this case referring to the legal construction sometimes called “King in Parliament”, the combination of the Monarch and the two Houses of Parliament all acting in agreement) has the final authority to determine, without any limitation whatsoever, what the law of the United Kingdom is.

It was NOT advisory, that,s a line trumpeted by Remoaners, in the hope it will be accepted as fact! It is not!

[pinfireman]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

The question for me is what was the point of having the referendum on such a subject. Better for a party to stand on a Brexit ticket. Maybe we are a step closer to that now. 

Not if you are the EDL or BNP. 

Extreme all depends where you stand. Mogg has an extreme view of brexit compared to most. One reason why the ERG is a minority in the house. 

Both major parties INCLUDED Brexit in their 2017 manifestos! Did you not read them? And whilst the ERG are a minority in the House, they are a growing minority. Moggs view of Brexit is also the view of 95% of the posters on here.  Are you accusing all of us of being extreme? 

2 hours ago, silver pigeon69 said:

You keep trying to back peddle and keep quoting "extreme view of Brexit". In you original post you said he was extreme RIGHT!

He hasn,t had his cocoa yet....

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I don't think it will be catastrophic. I think we will be worse off than we would otherwise be and the future is about integration not isolation.

If we are to avoid a no deal, there will have to be some meeting of minds to square the circle.  

Integration? With who? 

2 hours ago, Vince Green said:

 

Once Britain is free from the shackles of the EU the British economy will fly . That's not me saying that its the Wall St Journal. I would rather listen to them, JRM is a very shrewd fund manager, I would take his opinion seriously. That's not extreme its what the smart money is saying. The FTSE is at a record high, foreign investment is already pouring in.

How is that catastrophic?

and the British economy is doing far better than the EU!

[pinfireman]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

How? By reducing living standards so that we are more competitive. By increasing automation. By reducing safety standards. By reducing environmental standards. Is this what you want? 

JRM said we should take Argentinian Beef it's cheap. We could but this would be the end of UK beef industry. The rich will thrive when the poor get poorer.

I have spent my life working on foreign investment. My last job was Nissan cars. Foreign investment is not flying in. Most of the people that were working on it have for the last two years been moved over to trade. 

All residents of the UK have a personal vested interest in this country. 🙄

It,s Irish beef that would suffer!  And foreign investment IS flowing in!  Try taking the Financial Times, not The Guardian.

1 hour ago, oowee said:

This is why I think we will be worse off. 

the UK is not very competitive due to high labour costs and standards. The UK as part of the EU is able to say to more competitive countries you must meet our standards and pay tariffs to sell to us. These standards and tariffs protect our standard of living. On its own the UK is less able to demand such standards and prices as we are a smaller market place on our own than as part of the EU.

The UK can become more competitive by reducing costs by reducing standards, wage rates or automation.

The UK's most profitable trade is in services. Services are easier to sell as part of a developed and integrated market place. 

The EU is a big market on our door step that we will want to sell to.We say we want a trade deal with other countries so we will want a trade deal with the EU. We will have to meet EU standards to sell on equal terms and maybe pay for the privilege. Each market that we sell too will want to bargain with us. The larger ones will have the muscle to push for a better price. This will be standards and in some cases visa's.

The world is getting more and more integrated to the point where it is almost impossible to tell what you are buying from where. The speed of sales and the complexity of global business is ever increasing. Integration of people and politics is an inevitable logic of this process.

The world is a place of finite resources including the environment. As resources get tighter more cooperation will be required. The larger the trading group the greater the voice in the negotiation. 

There are many other areas of science and innovation, drug testing and development, university exchange and the protection of IP, and the knowledge economy that make borders virtual or otherwise a hang up to the past. 

The eu is FAILING! Stop turning a blind eye to the state of the economies of the 3 leading players, Germany, France and Italy.

45 minutes ago, motty said:

Didn't mean to quote you. I don't know what has happened...

I have had to stop reading and contributing to this thread, because I am so angry with the current state of affairs. I simply can't stand smug idiots such as oowee.

[Zapp]

Final call for personal attacks and insults to be left out of it please.

[dead eye alan]

11 minutes ago, Zapp said:

Final call for personal attacks and insults to be left out of it please.

Well said lets keep it on track.

[Newbie to this]

I've just read that Viktor Orbán may veto an extension of article 50. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Newbie to this

[Mice!]

didn't know who he was, hopefully it'll be like Eurovision song contest, were normally straight out of that when the voting starts.

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, pinfireman said:

How can it have been close if Labour abstained! That,s rubbish!

Poor explanation on my part, forgive me, a bit fatigued with the travel this week.What I meant was it would very likely have been close if Labour had votes in numbers. In my view that amendment should not even have been raised, at least not at this stage.

One point of clarification though; the vote on the extension to Article 50 which was passed - my previous understanding was that it related to an unconditional request to the EU states to agree an extension but from what was shown on the Parliament channel yesterday it appeared to be predicated on May's deal being agreed next week. Am I losing the plot or ...?

[Mice!]

Watching Jeremy vine program and two of the panel are quite interesting given how different they are, one thinks that Honda should be nationalized! A general election called which JC would romp if he promises all the same things again?? The other lady just laughed at her, lots of people will want to invest here then she said!!

there also talking about brexit and showed the house of commons, maybe 20 people in there sat around doing squat.

[Raja Clavata]

7 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Watching Jeremy vine program and two of the panel are quite interesting given how different they are, one thinks that Honda should be nationalized! A general election called which JC would romp if he promises all the same things again?? The other lady just laughed at her, lots of people will want to invest here then she said!!

there also talking about brexit and showed the house of commons, maybe 20 people in there sat around doing squat.

Sounds more like Jeremy Kyle show

[Smokersmith]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

I've just read that Viktor Orbán may veto an extension of article 50. 

In one way, this would be no bad thing ... at least parliament would be forced to make some choices and get something done.

[JohnfromUK]

28 minutes ago, Mice! said:

one thinks that Honda should be nationalized

Since Honda is Japanese owned, the Japanese might have something to say about that!

29 minutes ago, Mice! said:

A general election called which JC would romp if he promises all the same things again

I think people (or at least some of them) have come to realise that Jeremy Corbyn's 'ideas' are somewhat separated from what he could actually do - the difference being called 'the real world'

39 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The other lady just laughed at her, lots of people will want to invest here then she said!!

If we had a lefty administration which was;

• Nationalising private industry
• Forcing a portion of shares into 'employee ownership' where a Government/Union appointed body held the voting rights (McDonnells plan)
• Increasing taxation on businesses
• Increasing cost to businesses
• Increasing powers of trade unions
• Creating higher borrowing leading to higher interest rates and higher inflation

then worldwide 'money' will go elsewhere.  Put simply - the money will go where there is money to be made.  Always has, always will.

Under a decent Brexit, we will (if we want to) be able to have a 'leaner, fitter, faster responding business environment' that encourages investment by low taxation, low regulation, flexible working practices and high productivity.  Then everyone can be better off.

39 minutes ago, Mice! said:

maybe 20 people in there sat around doing squat.

That is busier than usual on a Friday.  They all bxxxxr off for a long weekend to their expenses funded second homes in the country for the weekend.

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

In one way, this would be no bad thing ... at least parliament would be forced to make some choices and get something done.

Agreed, and you know what ? I think its a very strong possibility.
Orban and Hungary are at odds with the EU over migration and ideology, I feel a HEXIT coming along, and it would place Hungary in a very strong position.

[JohnfromUK]

[Rewulf]

BTW If any of you would like to personally thank Mr Orban in advance of his veto, heres his email address 

miniszterelnok@mk.gov.hu

[Mice!]

32 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sounds more like Jeremy Kyle show

😂😂 not that bad, just a socialist and someone in the real world.

5 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Since Honda is Japanese owned, the Japanese might have something to say about that!

I think people (or at least some of them) have come to realise that Jeremy Corbyn's 'ideas' are somewhat separated from what he could actually do - the difference being called 'the real world'

If we had a lefty administration which was;

• Nationalising private industry
• Forcing a portion of shares into 'employee ownership' where a Government/Union appointed body held the voting rights (McDonnells plan)
• Increasing taxation on businesses
• Increasing cost to businesses
• Increasing powers of trade unions
• Creating higher borrowing leading to higher interest rates and higher inflation

then worldwide 'money' will go elsewhere.  Put simply - the money will go where there is money to be made.  Always has, always will.

Under a decent Brexit, we will (if we want to) be able to have a 'leaner, fitter, faster responding business environment' that encourages investment by low taxation, low regulation, flexible working practices and high productivity.  Then everyone can be better off.

That is busier than usual on a Friday.  They all bxxxxr off for a long weekend to their expenses funded second homes in the country for the weekend.

yes to everything, can you imagine how fast companies would pull the plug if JC got in and said, were nationalising Honda to save the jobs!

as for Corbyns  promises of free everything for everyone? Hope his magic money trees are coming on.

[Aled]

Ok a few Brexit Jokes to lighten the mood....

I voted remain not just for political reasons but my Mother on law lives in Spain and I want her to stay there.

Why does Britain like tea so much because ...tealeaves

What did Britain say to its trading partners....see EU later.

Roy Hodgson has just been made Brexit Minister....he has a brilliant record of leaving Europe swiftly..

A Brexit deal could take 10 years .....that's not fair, many of the people who voted for it could be dead by then.

 

Happy Friday All.

Cheers

Aled

[Mice!]

5 minutes ago, Aled said:

Ok a few Brexit Jokes to lighten the mood....

I voted remain not just for political reasons but my Mother on law lives in Spain and I want her to stay there.

Why does Britain like tea so much because ...tealeaves

What did Britain say to its trading partners....see EU later.

Roy Hodgson has just been made Brexit Minister....he has a brilliant record of leaving Europe swiftly..

A Brexit deal could take 10 years .....that's not fair, many of the people who voted for it could be dead by then.

 

Happy Friday All.

Cheers

Aled

because tealeaves😅😅 

[Raja Clavata]

Interesting to see that Wetherspoons overall revenue is up 7%, like for like sales up 6% but profit is down 19% over the six months to end of Jan '19.

Given Tim Martin's prediction that reversing Brexit would have adverse economic consequences he should be worried although to be fair, regardless of Brexit, increased revenue accompanied by a corresponding ~3 fold percentage point drop in profit is not sustainable - not least in a business of this nature. 

Perhaps this is in part due to some one time write-downs or asset depreciation but I for one don't care much for the man nor his business although no right minded person would like to see his employees losing their jobs.

[pinfireman]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

Watching Jeremy vine program and two of the panel are quite interesting given how different they are, one thinks that Honda should be nationalized! A general election called which JC would romp if he promises all the same things again?? The other lady just laughed at her, lots of people will want to invest here then she said!!

there also talking about brexit and showed the house of commons, maybe 20 people in there sat around doing squat.

As usual! As for a JC government, let,s face it, Corbyn could not run a bath, let alone a country!

16 hours ago, oowee said:

How? By reducing living standards so that we are more competitive. By increasing automation. By reducing safety standards. By reducing environmental standards. Is this what you want? 

JRM said we should take Argentinian Beef it's cheap. We could but this would be the end of UK beef industry. The rich will thrive when the poor get poorer.

I have spent my life working on foreign investment. My last job was Nissan cars. Foreign investment is not flying in. Most of the people that were working on it have for the last two years been moved over to trade. 

All residents of the UK have a personal vested interest in this country. 🙄

He means a large "financial vested interest"!

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting to see that Wetherspoons overall revenue is up 7%, like for like sales up 6% but profit is down 19% over the six months to end of Jan '19.

Given Tim Martin's prediction that reversing Brexit would have adverse economic consequences he should be worried although to be fair, regardless of Brexit, increased revenue accompanied by a corresponding ~3 fold percentage point drop in profit is not sustainable - not least in a business of this nature. 

Perhaps this is in part due to some one time write-downs or asset depreciation but I for one don't care much for the man nor his business although no right minded person would like to see his employees losing their jobs.

Why dont you like his business ?
He sells cheap beer and food, who doesnt love a Spoons ?
Whether you like the CEO is irrelevant , its the product that matters, you either buy it or you dont.

Profits are down because he has invested in his workforce, the business has tight margins, but he has put his money into the product and the people who deliver it.
The fact that hes a Brexiteer does not make him any less competent at running it.

[pinfireman]

13 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Interesting to see that Wetherspoons overall revenue is up 7%, like for like sales up 6% but profit is down 19% over the six months to end of Jan '19.

Given Tim Martin's prediction that reversing Brexit would have adverse economic consequences he should be worried although to be fair, regardless of Brexit, increased revenue accompanied by a corresponding ~3 fold percentage point drop in profit is not sustainable - not least in a business of this nature. 

Perhaps this is in part due to some one time write-downs or asset depreciation but I for one don't care much for the man nor his business although no right minded person would like to see his employees losing their jobs.

His profits are down because of property write downs, labour costs, interest payments, utility bill increases, repairs etc. NOTHING to do with Brexit.  

Do you also dislike Lord Bamford, head of JCB, James Dyson,  and Jim Ratcliffe?  Because they too are Brexiteers.

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Why dont you like his business ?
He sells cheap beer and food, who doesnt love a Spoons ?
Whether you like the CEO is irrelevant , its the product that matters, you either buy it or you dont.

Profits are down because he has invested in his workforce, the business has tight margins, but he has put his money into the product and the people who deliver it.
The fact that hes a Brexiteer does not make him any less competent at running it.

Correct. 

[oowee]

14 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

As usual! As for a JC government, let,s face it, Corbyn could not run a bath, let alone a country!

He means a large "financial vested interest"!

We all have a large financial vested interest in this country. Most of us have vested our families too. No doubt some have allegiances elsewhere and are driven by ulterior motives.