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20 hours ago, oowee said:

Rewulf we measure wealth in this country by the size of the gap between rich and poor. Gdp growth is the be all and end all. You want more wealth its going to be at the expense of another. Unless you vote Corbyn then it will be at everyones expense.

We need a new more representative parliament working for long term UK plc. Carry on as we are and UK plc will slowly decline eaten away by the competition, from the emerging economies. Brexit is a symptom of that distress. We need wholesale change. 

Flooding the country with people who think £5 an hour cash in hand is mega money has bankrupted a whole swathe of small tradesmen. Unfair EU competition has bankrupted thousands of British fishermen (including my friend Pete) , and small farmers (including my OH's cousin)  There is real anger.

  The Guardian readers don't see the damage, they think its all been wonderful because they have cheap gardeners, cleaning ladies etc and these common rif raf who voted Brexit are just unintelligent racists.

Britain has never been so polarised since the 1920s. Brexit, if it ever goes through, will actually save Britain (believe it or not) because it will put us back on a path where recovery is at least possible. Stay in the EU and we just get sucked into the vortex 

Edited by Vince Green
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9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Flooding the country with people who think £5 an hour cash in hand is mega money has bankrupted a whole swathe of small tradesmen. Unfair EU competition has bankrupted thousands of British fishermen (including my friend Pete) , and small farmers (including my OH's cousin)  There is real anger.

  The Guardian readers don't see the damage, they think its all been wonderful and these common rif raf who voted Brexit are just unintelligent racists.

Britain has never been so polarised since the 1920s. Brexit, if it ever goes through, will actually save Britain (believe it or not) because it will put us back on a path where recovery is at least possible. Stay in the EU and we just get sucked into the vortex 

what i think was very unfair was ..........when my mate had been made redundant he retrained as a boiler engineer..........he had to pay out quite a bit of money for some parts of the training..............there were 6 other blokes on the training coarse 4 of which were EU chaps from the ex russian satillite states.........and they were getting everything free and generous allowances............what added to his anger was the reason he got made redundant was the lorry delivery company , was bit by bit taking on foreign drivers earning 20% less than he was earning and half the night allowance.........................very unfair i thought....

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11 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Flooding the country with people who think £5 an hour cash in hand is mega money has bankrupted a whole swathe of small tradesmen. Unfair EU competition has bankrupted thousands of British fishermen (including my friend Pete) , and small farmers (including my OH's cousin)  There is real anger.

  The Guardian readers don't see the damage, they think its all been wonderful because they have cheap gardeners, cleaning ladies etc and these common rif raf who voted Brexit are just unintelligent racists.

Britain has never been so polarised since the 1920s. Brexit, if it ever goes through, will actually save Britain (believe it or not) because it will put us back on a path where recovery is at least possible. Stay in the EU and we just get sucked into the vortex 

Listen. If we leave the EU we will be competing directly with people prepared to work for a lot less than £5 an hour.

The issue you present about breaking minimal wage regulation has sod all to do with the EU, its a lack of regulatory control to enforce the laws that we have. Many small traders are happy to do that job for cash or forget the VAT some no doubt are reaping the rewards of open competition.  

 

There is real anger that the Tories could propose such an ill thought out proposition, as an undefined Brexit. 

 

Fortunately the EU were prepared to help us out last night. Say what you like about them but they as 27 nations are better organised, better managed, better structured and operating as a more coherent political entity than this Tory shambles. We turn our back on the EU and the checks and balances it brings, in favour of a bunch of wasters better suited to a school playground. Enough said. 

Edited by oowee
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You simply couldn't make up the mess the Government and Parliament have made of this, so what does anyone expect is going to happen by 31 October?

No doubt TM's deal will be watered down even more to the extend we are still in, pay them a fortune but have no voting rights or any control/veto!

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I actually wish the EU had tipped us fish last night and forced the government and parliaments hand to either jump off the no deal cliff or revoke article 50.

I still fear there is a way for TM to weasel her deal through which is the worst of both worlds in my opinion.

Just now, oowee said:

Fortunately the EU were prepared to help us out last night. Say what you like about them but they as 27 nations are better organised, better managed, better structured and operating as a more coherent political entity than this Tory shambles. We turn our back on the EU and the checks and balances it brings, in favour of a bunch of wasters better suited to a school playground. Enough said. 

This was more or less the point I was making yesterday relating to cautioning the notion of leaving the EU and embarking on electoral / parliamentary reforms at the same time. Although I would suggest it's an omni-shambles that all parties have contributed to, kinda irrelevant who is more to blame than the other.

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15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I actually wish the EU had tipped us fish last night and forced the government and parliaments hand to either jump off the no deal cliff or revoke article 50.

I still fear there is a way for TM to weasel her deal through which is the worst of both worlds in my opinion.

This was more or less the point I was making yesterday relating to cautioning the notion of leaving the EU and embarking on electoral / parliamentary reforms at the same time. Although I would suggest it's an omni-shambles that all parties have contributed to, kinda irrelevant who is more to blame than the other.

On this I absolutely agree. There is no way a new deal can be better than the one we have at the moment otherwise there will be a stampede for th same deal we have, and pop goes the eu.

Your men’s health article however....spare me. WTO tariffs are the maximums that can imposed by the importing country. Beef price rises of up to 87%? How awful. Unless we actually remove the tariff and beef becomes cheaper.

Chorinated chicken? The horror! Anything is better than that, even the prewashed salad from any supermarket that’s washed in, oh hang on, chlorinated water. I’ll get back to you on that one.

The affect on prices of a no deal brexit is downwards,if you just take tariffs into account. A bigger effect will be currency, and who knows where that would go. Of course, food producers might not be too happy.....

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For me the options are now very (sadly) limited and reflect the valid comments above:

  1. Watered down version of TM's **** deal
  2. Revoke Article 50

Either way, we are 1) effectively still in the EU or 2) still in the EU. 

The EU said again last night, "you still have the option of revoking A.50". They've said that from the start and has always been their plan B. They have a win/win proposition based on the options above. No deal Brexit should never have been taken off the table. We had an exit date and that has been made `flexible`.

Won't talk about `democracy` or the original Brexit vote. No point. I voted to leave based on my views of eroding sovereignty and too much control/power in Europe and not the immigration tripe or inflated NHS savings.

Apparently, I'm unable to make an informed decision, whereas the #remain 18-20 age bracket have got their heads screwed on.

I will continue to vote to have my voice heard (cough), and it will be interesting to see what changes (if any) this fiasco brings to the Parliamentary scene. 

Very little I expect.

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Nigel Farage and UKIP have gone all quiet....what are they up to / waiting for ?

I think it's to do with the new social media / news rules that bans the promotion of self harm (it has rightfully been extended to parties advocating Brexit). All part of the EU conspiracy to enslave us perpetually under their dictatorship 😛 

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28 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

Your men’s health article however....spare me. WTO tariffs are the maximums that can imposed by the importing country. Beef price rises of up to 87%? How awful. Unless we actually remove the tariff and beef becomes cheaper.

I did not write the article but merely shared the link. I thought it gave a pretty neutral balanced view and definitely rubbished the notion of food shortages and starvation suggesting that instead we might have less choice overall, especially around press produce. Anyway...

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10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I did not write the article but merely shared the link. I thought it gave a pretty neutral balanced view and definitely rubbished the notion of food shortages and starvation suggesting that instead we might have less choice overall, especially around press produce. Anyway...

People often link to articles that chime with their view, this is not to say that they did or would write the article. I read it as anything but balanced, and surely the disappearance of avocado pear for breakfast is the very definition of starvation.

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19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I just received an email from The Independent Group inviting me to apply to be a candidate in the European Elections representing them. 

thats really good news.....................................very well done.....:good:

 

now just send me £10,000 grand so i will keep my gob shut and dont go to the papers...........i will PM you with details...:good:

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23 minutes ago, ditchman said:

thats really good news.....................................very well done.....:good:

 

now just send me £10,000 grand so i will keep my gob shut and dont go to the papers...........i will PM you with details...:good:

10grand sounds like a billy bargain, cheques in the post squire

14 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

You sure it wasn't from the Lib Dems? 

You do come out with some.

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13 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

10grand sounds like a billy bargain, cheques in the post squire

You do come out with some.

10 grand a mth mate.............cheap at the price...........and not a soul will know about it.............know wot i mean guvnor 

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2 hours ago, ditchman said:

Nigel Farage and UKIP have gone all quiet....what are they up to / waiting for ?

There is a full page advert in the local newspaper today, by Nigel Farages "Brexit party".........a "launch rally" at the ICC Birmingham on Saturday,13th April......admission by ticket only @ £2.50....

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3 hours ago, oowee said:

Listen. If we leave the EU we will be competing directly with people prepared to work for a lot less than £5 an hour.

We already are !?

 

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Fortunately the EU were prepared to help us out last night

🤣 Ill bet ! You make it sound like they threw us a bone !

That bone will cost us £10 bn , and is a direct effort to get Brexit cancelled.

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Say what you like about them but they as 27 nations are better organised, better managed, better structured and operating as a more coherent political entity than this Tory shambles.

We shall see in 6 months time, when a third of the EU parliament is made up of anti EU MPs, France is still burning, another poorly managed migrant crisis, and political upheaval across the whole of  Europe.
When we are forced into an election that may give a result you really dont want, and the indecision about whether we leave or not starts biting into our overseas trade.

You can blame the tories all you like, it wont make any difference to the effect.

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