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Fixing potholes


sandspider
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Hi all


We have a rough track into out hamlet that gets pretty bad potholes, some big ones. It has a fair amount of light and medium sized vehicle traffic. 

In the past, people have dumped and compacted hardcore, or filled the holes with concrete and that's ok for a while but I'm looking for a more permanent fix. Would compacting mot type 1 be better than hardcore for instance? Or to make it better / last longer does it really need a proper job- scraping down, consolidating, compacting, membranes, drainage installation, tarmac etc.

Don't really want to do the latter if it can be avoided. Any other options?

Thanks.

 

 

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In Oz and Nz where they have miles and miles of gravel road they run a grader up them with ripper teeth down to loosen top 4 or so inches, then over it with grader blade than roll with a heavy vibrating roller.

If ur road was 100% hardcore that is the best way to do it and needs no extra hard core, but have never seen it done in this country even on forestry tracks where they have the heavy equipment usually just layer more hardcore on top.

 

Probably ur best bet is to hire a whacker or heavy roller to roll/whack wot ever u decide to put in, i'd say type 1 would be fine (althou i tend to call that hard core, dunno wot u call it??) or even some fine stuff on top. But properly compacting it may be the key.

I dunno if u mixed in/sprinkled some cement throu it would help it or not??

I have put some excess concrete into some potholes in a tarmac'd road (while far from best practice) and has worked far better than i ever imagined it would

Or even road plannings, if cheap enough (sometine not that much cheaper than type 1)

Do u have any access to plant/machinery to lightly rip or flatten the road in the worst places? Seen some farm tracks the farmer just drags a reallty heavy welded frame over the track which pulls the loose stuff along to fill in holes, think does it 2/3 times a year which keeps it nice.

 

I take it any bill will be split by all the houses on the track??

If so ur probably as well just getting a contrsactor in, any bill will be split 10/20??? ways, and without being funny there is always some who will do ****** all to help yet moan the loudest, get a company in and then the few don't get lumbered with it and the cost is spread equally and fairly

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The problem with trying to fix pot holes in compacted hoggin type tracks is all to do with how they form in the first place.

A pot hole usually starts when a small area of the surface becomes slightly dished and collects water. As traffic passes over the water it concusses the area and makes the hole deeper by expelling stuff from the original hole. Gradually this process accelerates until you have a problem hole.

If you just fill the hole with something hard and impervious like concrete or tarmac, it will solve the problem for a while but eventually water will seep in behind the repair plug and soon the plug will be bouncing about in an even bigger pot hole.

More effective, as a temporary repair is to get a clay-rich type of hoggin which will patch the hole yet still allow a degree of drainage.

Unfortunately, the only semi-permanent solution is to have the whole road graded and resurfaced with a proper gradient / camber allowing surface water to run off. 

Edited by Okrang
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1 hour ago, davewh100 said:

we had some bad potholes on one of our tracks to a large ponds, we had 40 tons of road plainings dropped of its made a great job

hello, as above the farm sometimes gets some to fill in pot holes as there is a old bridle road to repair  

Edited by oldypigeonpopper
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Sandspider, I live on a private lane that sounds similar to yours.  If you go down the type 1 route, be prepared to have to re-do patches on an annual basis, especially the spots outside people's drives, or where they regularly park.  Eventually the finer dust that compacts the type 1 together washes out and you're just left with the larger, looser stuff and you need to add more type 1. Road scalpings would definately be a better solution in my opinion, I've used them through work for an access track years ago and the finish and durability was much better than you get with type 1.  Where I live, we have a local quarry which means type 1 is very cheap so fellow residents would rather do a temporary patch every year instead of club together and get a more permanent solution.

Edited by Jonty
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Thanks for the thoughts, all.

 

On 20/07/2018 at 21:53, scotslad said:

In Oz and Nz where they have miles and miles of gravel road they run a grader up them with ripper teeth down to loosen top 4 or so inches, then over it with grader blade than roll with a heavy vibrating roller.

If ur road was 100% hardcore that is the best way to do it and needs no extra hard core, but have never seen it done in this country even on forestry tracks where they have the heavy equipment usually just layer more hardcore on top.

 

Probably ur best bet is to hire a whacker or heavy roller to roll/whack wot ever u decide to put in, i'd say type 1 would be fine (althou i tend to call that hard core, dunno wot u call it??) or even some fine stuff on top. But properly compacting it may be the key.

I dunno if u mixed in/sprinkled some cement throu it would help it or not??

I have put some excess concrete into some potholes in a tarmac'd road (while far from best practice) and has worked far better than i ever imagined it would

Or even road plannings, if cheap enough (sometine not that much cheaper than type 1)

Do u have any access to plant/machinery to lightly rip or flatten the road in the worst places? Seen some farm tracks the farmer just drags a reallty heavy welded frame over the track which pulls the loose stuff along to fill in holes, think does it 2/3 times a year which keeps it nice.

 

I take it any bill will be split by all the houses on the track??

If so ur probably as well just getting a contrsactor in, any bill will be split 10/20??? ways, and without being funny there is always some who will do ****** all to help yet moan the loudest, get a company in and then the few don't get lumbered with it and the cost is spread equally and fairly

I've got a small tractor with a link box with a hardened edge I could use for grading. And a small roller. We have a quarry nearby so crushed cement and type 1 are easy to come by, not sure about road planings. Can only get small vans down our road anyway, no room for 40 tonnes in an Artic! As you say, people want to pay as little as possible! And it's only 5 or 6 houses.

On 20/07/2018 at 21:57, Okrang said:

The problem with trying to fix pot holes in compacted hoggin type tracks is all to do with how they form in the first place.

A pot hole usually starts when a small area of the surface becomes slightly dished and collects water. As traffic passes over the water it concusses the area and makes the hole deeper by expelling stuff from the original hole. Gradually this process accelerates until you have a problem hole.

If you just fill the hole with something hard and impervious like concrete or tarmac, it will solve the problem for a while but eventually water will seep in behind the repair plug and soon the plug will be bouncing about in an even bigger pot hole.

More effective, as a temporary repair is to get a clay-rich type of hoggin which will patch the hole yet still allow a degree of drainage.

Unfortunately, the only semi-permanent solution is to have the whole road graded and resurfaced with a proper gradient / camber allowing surface water to run off. 

Feared so. Don't think people will spring for a proper job, so probably some sort of bodge again, with us doing the labour.

On 20/07/2018 at 22:13, davewh100 said:

we had some bad potholes on one of our tracks to a large ponds, we had 40 tons of road plainings dropped of its made a great job

No room for a lorry to get in, but planings could work if I can get a few smaller loads.

On 20/07/2018 at 23:17, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, as above the farm sometimes gets some to fill in pot holes as there is a old bridle road to repair  

 

On 21/07/2018 at 05:47, Jonty said:

Sandspider, I live on a private lane that sounds similar to yours.  If you go down the type 1 route, be prepared to have to re-do patches on an annual basis, especially the spots outside people's drives, or where they regularly park.  Eventually the finer dust that compacts the type 1 together washes out and you're just left with the larger, looser stuff and you need to add more type 1. Road scalpings would definately be a better solution in my opinion, I've used them through work for an access track years ago and the finish and durability was much better than you get with type 1.  Where I live, we have a local quarry which means type 1 is very cheap so fellow residents would rather do a temporary patch every year instead of club together and get a more permanent solution.

Yep, this is the problem we have- just the bigger stones get left. Will see if I can get planings for a reasonable cost.
Cheers all.

 

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I know in my area if u can take plannings in an 8 wheeler and are near a big tarmac resurface job u can sometimes get them cheap/free (esp Mway nightshifts as desperate to get rid close to hand) but u'd have to take a fair ammount.

 

If the plannings have been stored they're not that much cheaper than type 1 really, mibee 3-6 quid a T cheaper.

Personally unless very cheap i'd go with type 1, easier to work with, u may also need a licence to take road plannings (i thought in scotland u were allowed 70T exemption without a licence from SEPA (EA? i think down south) which might have changed now)

 

Might be worth trying to get something welded/fabricated for ur tractor to grade the road but also some short teeth to break up around the potholes first.

 

If just filling holes in i'd makes sure ur filling the hole so its slightly proud so water won' lie in it and compact it well, u'd probably be better with a whacker/vibrating roller than just a field roller.

If u had space at the worst place might be worth leaving small stock piles of stone along the track so u could fix more often (or others could fix without ur tractor)

Water is the no1 enemy as others have said so if u can get ur road necely cambered or sloping so water isn't sitting on it or running down it like a river u'll prevent most of ur problems, if on a hill plenty of diagonal 'cundies'(ramps/hollows) to take water of the track and not run down it eroding it

 

 

 

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Access is pretty narrow, no chance of getting a lorry or 8 wheeler in. And we don't have space to store 40 tons of road planings!

How about a mixture of planings and type 1? Or is that madness!

Presumably, whatever we end up using, the key is getting the pothole clean down to a hard surface, filling proud, compacting, top up filling, compacting again and ideally sealing the edges where the patch joins the road to stop water getting in? Anything else to take into account? Can type 1 be put straight into a damp hole after cleaning, like when concrete sticks better if the base of the hole is wet?

Pretty sure re-cambering the whole road is more than I can cope with! Will check into professional options, but I can't see the other owners being keen. And to be fair, I like it as a track rather than a proper road...

Cheers again.

 

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Is there no one local to u u know and would know about these things? Get some proper advice of someone who can see it.

Usually an 8 wheeler is 20T, and usually buying stone that way is the cheapest by far if u can get it dumped, not a lot of point in mixing them i'd either get 1 or other and price wot u can get in ur area and how ur going to get it delivered, dumped, stored and even how ur going to get it up the track to th holes?

Mibee pay a friendly farmer to get it in a tractor trailer and tip it as u fix the track? Or hire a digger/dumper to move the stuff about, even loading ur tractor box by hand will soon get tiring. Esp if ur doing al the work.

Possibly u could hire a digger and just run its bucket teeth throu the worst areas to loosen it around the potholes then grade compact the stuff into the holes with the underside of bucket and then wack u might not need any/much extra stone brought in

 

Re cambering the road could be as simple as cutting/dragging ur thing up 1 side of the track then up the ther side so hopefully they both slope away from the middle

If theres water in the hole it's just displaced by the stone anyway as long as not too much i think it sometimes helps to bind the stuff when u whack it.

Unfortunately if a gravel track theres not a lot u can do to seal the edges of ur pothole, really just try to get the water away and stop it lying there

Does ur track have sides or can water run off pretty much where it likes?

 

Might be worth speaking to a few plant companies, u'll never turn it into a tarmac'd road but they could mibee grade the surface somehow relatively cheaply and atleast fix the potholes. A good digger man followed by a heavy vibrating rolller might fix the road fairly quickly and relativley cheaply

Esp when the costs are shared

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Thanks a lot for that detailed response SL.
A neighbour does have a contact who has dumped and compacted hardcore previously on another part of the track. Will give them a ring for some likely prices to compare to having a go myself.

And I do have a digger driver contact, and do also fancy hiring one and having a go myself! It's not a huge length of track, maybe 50m. Most of the Potholes aren't that bad really, but an old neighbour is getting a bit moany. Better to get it done before winter comes anyway I suppose.

 

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2 hours ago, spandit said:

Using a digger is fun and I'm fairly good at it but an experienced operator will do 10x the work and make a far neater job of it in a shorter space of time

 

I'd agree with the abve and esp so the type of job ur talking about, its more finishing and fine tuning where u do need to be quite skilled to get a good finish.

Very different to digging holes in a field which anyone can do, and can be fun, top dressing can just be frustrating when ur not good at it

 

U really want to get a few opionons of knowledgable folk that can actually see the track and the potholes.

It may be better or worse than u'm imagineing so hard to say exactly how i'd fix them

Must admit for some reason i was picturing it as 00's of m's long, dunno why.

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