Deer shooting with an air rifle?

[Morrisman]

I have been enjoying the meat from a fallow I shot, when my wife spat out a lump of hard stuff. I looked at it and was amazed (****** off) to find it was a .22 pointed nose air gun pellet. What sort of right **** goes around trying to shoot a deer with an air rifle? Being a vermin hunter myself, a lot of it with an air rifle I know what it will kill and at what distances. Must, surely, be only a question of time before ownership of any sort of arms will require a licence. Not that that will stop it, of course.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

You cannot legislate for stupidity.

[Sha Bu Le]

5 hours ago, Morrisman said:

I have been enjoying the meat from a fallow I shot, when my wife spat out a lump of hard stuff. I looked at it and was amazed (****** off) to find it was a .22 pointed nose air gun pellet. What sort of right oes around trying to shoot a deer with an air rifle? Being a vermin hunter myself, a lot of it with an air rifle I know what it will kill and at what distances. Must, surely, be only a question of time before ownership of any sort of arms will require a licence. Not that that will stop it, of course.

Chavs, toerags, scumbags yobbos,idiots and anything else anyone can think of (keeping it clean). Of course with such lowlife (as we all know) licensing will have no effect.

[Ultrastu]

Ok so bring it to everyones  attention .and inadvertently bring about licencing faster than before?

[Morrisman]

1 hour ago, Ultrastu said:

Ok so bring it to everyones  attention .and inadvertently bring about licencing faster than before?

Ok. Sorry about that, can everybody ignore my post?.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Morrisman
forgot gramma

[turbo33]

1 hour ago, Ultrastu said:

Ok so bring it to everyones  attention .and inadvertently bring about licencing faster than before?

Ultrastu, you are in danger of being in the grumpy brigade on here! Its a shooting forum, for things shooting related to be discussed, not the run and hide society. The mods on here  will remove any material they deem inappropriate. 

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever with Airgun licensing. Lots of us on here have done it for FAC air. So why not for sub 12? They are a dangerous weapon, especially in the wrong hands, and whilst licensing won't eliminate all the idiots, it will weed out a good proportion. You want a shotgun, you get a license, you want FAC air, or other firearm, you get a license, i've not fished for years, but assume you still have to get a rod license. Where's the problem?

Just now, Morrisman said:

Ok. Sorry about that, can everybody ignore my post?.

No, I feel its a perfectly valid post Morrisman. Don't be bullied by some of the members here. If its not appropriate, the mods will deal with it.

[Ultrastu]

Licencing of airguns is the start of the end for all shooting sports. In the uk .

If you cant see that .you must look and think a bit harder. . 

See what it has done to the shooting industry in scotland so far .1.5 years in .

Give it another 10 years or so to see the fuller effect .

If you enjoy your sport as much as i do ? Then anything that brings about licencing of airguns quicker must be resisted. 

 

All i will say on the subject ...

Other than yesterday i had some friends and there 2 boys over for the day .and the 2 dads and 3 boys and a girl .spent a couple of hours pliking cans and poping water ballons in my garden with a low powered hw 30 springer .the youngest was 6 and he hit a tin can of water  and made it jump up in the air. With his first shot ..he was hooked instantly .

So my mate (the boys dad ) is now looking for a cheap airgun for his kids in his garden .

All safe enviroment .with strict rules and lots of fun .

The  start of a shooting career ?.

Lets hope so .

You licence that and you effectively cut the legs off the sport. 

 

Yes i am grumpy when the threat is as serious as that .

[stuartyboy]

I've never gralloched/skinned a deer with airgun pellets in it. Shotgun pellets, yes, a few times.

Old story, its the person using the gun that's responsible. Not the gun itself.

[Vince Green]

It was an  total idiot, pure and simple. We can all envisage how it happened. Like the duck swimming round the pond in our local park about fifteen years ago with a crossbow bolt sticking out of it.  

[Walker570]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

You cannot legislate for stupidity.

It is also incurable.  Two reports of such incident in one day has got to say there are too many of them about.

[turbo33]

I believe all air guns are licensed in Ireland. Hasn’t destroyed shooting sports there. And Ultrastu, what has happened to the shooting industry in Scotland?

Im not talking about responsible adults teaching youngsters in safety and within the law. There are thousands of shotgun certificate holders doing that weekly. See Motty’s post “Could have shot 100” 

Whats more important is being seen to be responsible in great numbers  Being s member of BASC is a step in the right direction  

 

[Scully]

I’m dead against the licensing of any firearm; it achieves nothing. As I’ve said many times; when we have to legislate then we’ve lost the fight and basically given up. 

Everone has made the assumption the deer was shot with a sub12ft lb airgun, whereas for all we know it could have been shot with a licensed air gun. Who knows? 

[Graham M]

1 hour ago, turbo33 said:

Ultrastu, you are in danger of being in the grumpy brigade on here! Its a shooting forum, for things shooting related to be discussed, not the run and hide society. The mods on here  will remove any material they deem inappropriate. 

Personally, I have no problem whatsoever with Airgun licensing. Lots of us on here have done it for FAC air. So why not for sub 12? They are a dangerous weapon, especially in the wrong hands, and whilst licensing won't eliminate all the idiots, it will weed out a good proportion. You want a shotgun, you get a license, you want FAC air, or other firearm, you get a license, i've not fished for years, but assume you still have to get a rod license. Where's the problem?

No, I feel its a perfectly valid post Morrisman. Don't be bullied by some of the members here. If its not appropriate, the mods will deal with it.

Licensing of airguns...........................oh Dear.

 

Can you still not see it..........the whole process comes in three stages.

 

Registration

Certification

Confiscation

 

 

[Muddy Funker]

It may have also been shot in error.

Someone plinking into treeline or something?

[turbo33]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m dead against the licensing of any firearm; it achieves nothing. As I’ve said many times; when we have to legislate then we’ve lost the fight and basically given up. 

Everone has made the assumption the deer was shot with a sub12ft lb airgun, whereas for all we know it could have been shot with a licensed air gun. Who knows? 

Scully, come on. Can you imagine what would be going on here now without firearms licensing? Ok, it might be an inconvenience at renewal time for the responsible, but can you imagine a situation where anyone could just go and buy one? Knife crime is out of hand now as is moped  thugs. Pop in the gunshot, get a gun and then nick a moped.......its un imaginable!! We all know whats going on in the States due to their laws being so lax. Do you seriously think it wouldn't happen here?

[Ultrastu]

The airgun industry in scotland is almost dead in such a short time ..shops have shut  .existing guns have been sold or destroyed in their thousands. When sec 1 and 2 holders come to renew 

A lot wont bother to get an additional airgun licence ontop of the sec 1/2 .so thats more guns going .

So when customers dont come into shops in the same numbers  shops close .and slowly the whole industry reduces ..airguns are grass roots into shooting .kill that and slowly the rest just dies out with little extra legislation for 10 /15 years .and when there are a lot lot less shooters ( full bore etc ) then they have a lesser political voice and are very easy to steam roll later on ..

Ps the shooting industry in NI  is very small . 

[turbo33]

4 minutes ago, Graham M said:

Licensing of airguns...........................oh Dear.

 

Can you still not see it..........the whole process comes in three stages.

 

Registration

Certification

Confiscation

 

 

So as we have had those three stages with firearms in this country since Adam was a child, who do you know that has had their firearms confiscated?

[Graham M]

Me!!! They took away my pistols in 96

And NO we haven't had those restrictions since Adam was a lad. I remember when you didn't even have to inform anyone when you bought a shotgun. you just went into the gunshop with your 10/- piece of paper that you got from the post office and bought the gun. 

[turbo33]

1 minute ago, Ultrastu said:

The airgun industry in scotland is almost dead in such a short time ..shops have shut  .existing guns have been sold or destroyed in their thousands. When sec 1 and 2 holders come to renew 

A lot wont bother to get an additional airgun licence ontop of the sec 1/2 .so thats more guns going .

So when customers dont come into shops in the same numbers  shops close .and slowly the whole industry reduces ..airguns are grass roots into shooting .kill that and slowly the rest just dies out with little extra legislation for 10 /15 years .and when there are a lot lot less shooters ( full bore etc ) then they have a lesser political voice and are very easy to steam roll later on ..

Ps the shooting industry in NI  is very small . 

Because, probably, they can't be bothered to go through the process of obtaining a license. Thats apathy.  The shooting retail business has been struggling for a long time.  According to the rod's round here I have spoken to, its partly change of peoples leisure time, and also money being so tight. During the hedonistic 80's, the mainstay of most of the RFD's here was manual tradesmen, doing very well. They would shoot clays two or more times a week, had the money for new guns etc. Clay grounds have closed in huge numbers, Mr & Mrs are working long hours/days to keep up with everyday cost of living. Getting permission on a farm is harder than ever. I could spend a day showing you farms round here that have been bought by bankers and turned into a mini theme park for their off spring. I used to be able to shoot as many times a week as I wanted/could take off work. Its so limited now, that I will probably pack it in sometime soon. And yet, it does seem according to various reports, that firearms grants  go up year by year.

[Ultrastu]

Shooters  who think airgun licencing is good or even just ok .often have a .

"Im alright jack " attitude ."it doesnt effect me as i have sec 1 and 2 and can easily get a licence if i have to " 

But there are thousands and thousands of shooters who enjoy there sport every weekend in the field and comps all over england and wales.  Most will Never fire a sec 1/2 gun and dont want to .. they also dont want to have to jump through hoops just to plink some metal targets in a wood or garden or on at an international competition  

Its not apathy .?

 

[Ultrastu]

The industry has been in decline cos the media has been telling us that shooting is bad .and now they legislate against it .no wonder  shops close ..

So we lose thousands of airguners but gain 0.1 % fac holders. .

Ie a very small portion of those airguners go onto sec 1/2  .

Not a fair  trade .

Thats not apathy thats thousands and thousands of people not wanting a sec 1 /2 .just lamemting the loss of there sub 12 guns .

Edited July 22, 2018 by Ultrastu

[turbo33]

9 minutes ago, Graham M said:

Me!!! They took away my pistols in 96

And NO we haven't had those restrictions since Adam was a lad. I remember when you didn't even have to inform anyone when you bought a shotgun. you just went into the gunshop with your 10/- piece of paper that you got from the post office and bought the gun. 

Thats my point Graham. You will be understandably unhappy about that. Happened to a great mate of mine, he had a super collection and we all had great sport at the pistol club. I do sympathise with you but can you not see where we would be no with the changing demographic of our country and culture, since your date point of circa 47 years ago?  You like my friend were clearly law abiding and suffered the loss/restriction to your lifestyle due to the actions of Thomas Hamilton and Micheal Ryan in particular. 

Its a sad fact, but in order to minimise, as much as possible, collateral damage, it is inevitable it will be made harder for the responsible. For the record, my nephew lost his eye to an airgun incident. Had the rifle been secured as is now the requirement, and or supervised by an appropriate adult as Ultraist was doing, it would not have happened. Similarly, my Godmother lost one of her eyes to a bow and arrow incident. No I'm not saying they should be licensed, but it shows the need for responsible handling and usage.

[CharlieT]

30 minutes ago, Graham M said:

Me!!! They took away my pistols in 96

And NO we haven't had those restrictions since Adam was a lad. I remember when you didn't even have to inform anyone when you bought a shotgun. you just went into the gunshop with your 10/- piece of paper that you got from the post office and bought the gun. 

GM

You didn't even need a 10/- jobbie to buy one. I just saved up my pocket money and bought one from the local hardware shop on the way home from school, at the time I didn't even know such a license existed. 

Don't remember the streets being  piled up with dead and injured because of no licensing. We really have gone over the top with licensing propaganda when even shooters are all but demanding air gun licensing.

 

[turbo33]

12 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Shooters  who think airgun licencing is good or even just ok .often have a .

"Im alright jack " attitude ."it doesnt effect me as i have sec 1 and 2 and can easily get a licence if i have to " 

But there are thousands and thousands of shooters who enjoy there sport every weekend in the field and comps all over england and wales.  Most will Never fire a sec 1/2 gun and dont want to .. they also dont want to have to jump through hoops just to plink some metal targets in a wood or garden or on at an international competition  

Its not apathy .?

 

That Ultrastu, is another of your unqualified remarks. Have you looked at the Scottish licensing form? It could not be more simple. Ten minutes to fill it out, two mugshots and one countersignature. You have to declare good reason. Which actually, the guidance notes say "Target shooting" is as long as its safe. You don't even have to invest in a gun cabinet, a chain and padlock round a fixed part of the building will fulfil the criteria. And crikey, in the majority of cases, they won't even come and interview you!

Now if someone can't be bothered to do that, well there can't be much enthusiasm for their sport. Its not exactly jumping through hoops is it? And if as you say:

44 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

The airgun industry in scotland is almost dead in such a short time ..shops have shut  .existing guns have been sold or destroyed in their thousands.

all because they are either too lazy fill out a simple form, or so bone headed, they would rather have their gun destroyed  than comply, those are exactly the sort of people I would question having a weapon in the first place.

[turbo33]

29 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

on't remember the streets being  piled up with dead and injured because of no licensing. We really have gone over the top with licensing propaganda when even shooters are all but demanding air gun licensing.

Charlie, I'm nearly sixty. I can remember when you could walk a mile up the road with your gun under your arm and someone would ask for a rabbit or pigeon if you got one. There were no gangs of youths killing each other then, no people with rucksacks full of explosives and nails, not only enjoying blowing themselves up, but children by the score at a pop concert. Can you remember a beheading of a soldier in london when you were 10 years old? I wish so much, things weren't the way they are now. All we had then were the mods and rockers that would have an annual brawl in brighton, then get back on there lambrettas and go home. Its so very different now.

If your last remark was directed at me, I am not demanding Airgun licensing. If you look at the form, this is really the only bit that may bring into question that of a refusal:

• Acute Stress Reaction or an acute reaction to the stress caused by a trauma
• Suicidal thoughts or self-harm 
• Depression or anxiety
• Dementia
• Mania, bipolar disorder or a psychotic illness
• A personality disorder
• A neurological condition: for example, Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson’s or Huntington’s diseases, or epilepsy
• Alcohol or drug related abuse
• Any other mental or physical condition which you think may affect the safe possession of an air weapon 

If someone with any of these conditions can forever walk into a shop and buy an air weapon, and there was ultimately an incident, then we are, as even responsible users, at risk of losing our weapons, as Graham pointed out he had lost his pistols. In doing background checks, I can't see thats a bad thing. It will generally mean a refusal for someone who poses a risk. Not infallible, but a start. It is one of the greatest  failings in the States, not a enough background checks in a persons suitability.

I would be far happier knowing the bloke next door who had an air rifle, or any firearm was free from all the above, than risk the possible nutter with any of the above, having a weapon of any sort. But then, I concede, I am in the minority here.

Edited July 22, 2018 by turbo33