wymberley Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Graham M said: Licensing of airguns...........................oh Dear. Can you still not see it..........the whole process comes in three stages. Registration Certification Confiscation I agree it's the proverbial ******'s muddle. However, we could end up suffering from a severe dose of paranoia unnecessarily. Some on here will remember these: We had them then and they never caused a problem. Then they were rendered obsolete with no further requirement. The question that needs answering is is there a need for their reintroduction. And if the answer should be, 'yes', then would this be treating the defect - the need - or the symptom of that perceived need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 You can argue the toss all you like .wether you think its great or not .. But try find a decent airgun shop in scotland now .. That is hard reality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 I don't agree with licensing airguns. I think there is far too much supposed control in the wrong places over the wrong things already. But playing Devil's advocate for a moment, WHY should airgunners be exempt from licensing? It might be inconvenient, but people with other sorts of firearms have to put up with the inconvenience every 5 years. Anyone with a 15ft/lb airgun has to have a FAC, but someone with an 11.9ft/lb airgun doesn't. I wouldn't like to be shot by either, so the differentiation makes little sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Ultrastu said: You can argue the toss all you like .wether you think its great or not .. But try find a decent airgun shop in scotland now .. That is hard reality . It not about "arguing the toss" its more a logical discussion. If there are hardly any decent Airgun shops in Scotland, that doesn't indicate its because of a form. All shops are now struggling, look at the household names we have lost in the last year alone. You didn't need a certificate to go into Poundland for example. Its called business. Everything can be bought online now. Go to a game or country fair, and talk to the stall holders. People go in, pick it up, decide what they want, then turn to their mate and say"So and so's doing this online "X" pounds cheaper. Tesco's Aldi, The Airgun Centre, Sportsman Gun Centre, the small retailers can't compete. In the last two years, I and fellow businessmen have had a really hard time, as have lots of individuals. It not to do with certification, its about being competitive. Hell, you can get a second hand rifle 2/3rds the cost of new, online, parcel forced to your door. The canny Scot would not pay a penny more from an RFD!! Infact, pellets, clothing, rifle bags, (downloadable targets now) everything online. I have a local guys who makes a great living, from his study, as an RFD receiving and sending stuff, no need for a shop. Its just business and sound business sense. Great find that Wymberley! I remember my Dad's first one, same thing! Getting the 10 bob together for it, took him weeks though! That was when our 25 acre farm, 4 bed farmhouse, river frontage 25 stables etc, etc, cost him a heady..............£24,000!!!! And I agree, its more likely paranoia. Edited July 22, 2018 by turbo33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Muddy Funker said: It may have also been shot in error. Someone plinking into treeline or something? A reasoned comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam1e Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 The Anti's have demonized the "Gun" for so many years now that it will never be as popular as it was before the Dunblane and Hungerford shootings. Both incidents were clearly appalling. But as abhorrent as they were, they have been constantly misused by the Anti's to gain non "shooting" ignorant people's support, with which they have used to beat down the shooting fraternity ever since. And they will continue to do so. Sad but i believe true...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 hours ago, turbo33 said: Scully, come on. Can you imagine what would be going on here now without firearms licensing? Ok, it might be an inconvenience at renewal time for the responsible, but can you imagine a situation where anyone could just go and buy one? Knife crime is out of hand now as is moped thugs. Pop in the gunshot, get a gun and then nick a moped.......its un imaginable!! We all know whats going on in the States due to their laws being so lax. Do you seriously think it wouldn't happen here? Go on then, tell me 'what would be going on here now without firearms licensing'. While you're at it you could tell me what licensing firearms has achieved in the past, or for that matter the future. If knives were licensed do you believe it would curtail knife crime? As far as I'm aware you need a license for a moped; doesn't seem to prevent crimes being carried out with them. Are you trying to tell me that licensing in the states prevents gun crime? Have all the shootings there been done with unlicensed firearms? As you know, Hungerford, Dunblane and the West Cumbria shootings were carried out with licensed firearms. All licensing does is create a register of whom owns them, nothing more nothing less. I've been vetted to be be deemed suitable to own CF rifles and shotguns, so why should I need a license for anything else? Why am I now deemed unsuitable to own handguns whereas I once was, prior to Dunblane? I own S1 shotguns for crying out loud! Tell me, where is the logic in that? I need a license for rifles and another for shotguns....why? Tell me, what does that achieve? Even if it were the more logical process whereas the person was licensed ( or more accurately registered ) rather than the firearm, it wouldn't mean anything. They did away with registration in Canada of CF rifles a few years ago, as far as I'm aware; there doesn't seem to be the massacres there which some predicted. Everyone who advocates licensing appears to believe it is the answer to prevent crimes from happening.......it isn't. You yourself believe it to be so by your comment 'can you imagine what would be going on here now without firearms licensing.' Who is the more dangerous.......a good person with an unlicensed firearm or a bad person with a licensed firearm? It is no different to a good person with a knife or a bad person with a knife. Vet the person and license THEM, not the firearm; and leave the licensed person to buy what they want. It wont make a scrap of difference to crime figures, but it's the more logical choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Scully said: Go on then, tell me 'what would be going on here now without firearms licensing'. While you're at it you could tell me what licensing firearms has achieved in the past, or for that matter the future. If knives were licensed do you believe it would curtail knife crime? As far as I'm aware you need a license for a moped; doesn't seem to prevent crimes being carried out with them. Are you trying to tell me that licensing in the states prevents gun crime? Have all the shootings there been done with unlicensed firearms? As you know, Hungerford, Dunblane and the West Cumbria shootings were carried out with licensed firearms. All licensing does is create a register of whom owns them, nothing more nothing less. I've been vetted to be be deemed suitable to own CF rifles and shotguns, so why should I need a license for anything else? Why am I now deemed unsuitable to own handguns whereas I once was, prior to Dunblane? I own S1 shotguns for crying out loud! Tell me, where is the logic in that? I need a license for rifles and another for shotguns....why? Tell me, what does that achieve? Even if it were the more logical process whereas the person was licensed ( or more accurately registered ) rather than the firearm, it wouldn't mean anything. They did away with registration in Canada of CF rifles a few years ago, as far as I'm aware; there doesn't seem to be the massacres there which some predicted. Everyone who advocates licensing appears to believe it is the answer to prevent crimes from happening.......it isn't. You yourself believe it to be so by your comment 'can you imagine what would be going on here now without firearms licensing.' Who is the more dangerous.......a good person with an unlicensed firearm or a bad person with a licensed firearm? It is no different to a good person with a knife or a bad person with a knife. Vet the person and license THEM, not the firearm; and leave the licensed person to buy what they want. It wont make a scrap of difference to crime figures, but it's the more logical choice. Sadly, Scully, you are indicative of the narrow minded and bluntly ignorant viewpoints on this forum. I will now leave PW to the relentless bullying tactics and knuckle dragging attitudes of what is now sadly the masses. A great shame that a subject cannot be discussed here, but that is how it is. It was a great forum but is now no longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, turbo33 said: It was a great forum but is now no longer. I totally agree mate,it's gone to the dogs,BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 23 minutes ago, Bluebarrels said: I totally agree mate,it's gone to the dogs,BB + one . Ruined by a few . Unfortunately there are a few diatribe trolls on here who need to be trimmed . harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 32 minutes ago, turbo33 said: Sadly, Scully, you are indicative of the narrow minded and bluntly ignorant viewpoints on this forum. I will now leave PW to the relentless bullying tactics and knuckle dragging attitudes of what is now sadly the masses. A great shame that a subject cannot be discussed here, but that is how it is. It was a great forum but is now no longer. You made the statements not me; but I'm narrow minded and bluntly ignorant because I picked holes in your statements and you can't answer the questions I asked? Ah well. Just now, Harnser said: + one . Ruined by a few . Unfortunately there are a few diatribe trolls on here who need to be trimmed . harnser Do you know the meaning of trolling Harnser? It is to make a provocative statement purely to garner a response which the OP has no intention of following up. You can show me an example of me trolling if you can find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Scully said: You made the statements not me; but I'm narrow minded and bluntly ignorant because I picked holes in your statements and you can't answer the questions I asked? Ah well. Do you know the meaning of trolling Harnser? It is to make a provocative statement purely to garner a response which the OP has no intention of following up. You can show me an example of me trolling if you can find one. Scully your a troll . harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Take the bickering to PMs please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Scully said: Go on then, tell me 'what would be going on here now without firearms licensing'. While you're at it you could tell me what licensing firearms has achieved in the past, or for that matter the future. If knives were licensed do you believe it would curtail knife crime? As far as I'm aware you need a license for a moped; doesn't seem to prevent crimes being carried out with them. Are you trying to tell me that licensing in the states prevents gun crime? Have all the shootings there been done with unlicensed firearms? As you know, Hungerford, Dunblane and the West Cumbria shootings were carried out with licensed firearms. All licensing does is create a register of whom owns them, nothing more nothing less. I've been vetted to be be deemed suitable to own CF rifles and shotguns, so why should I need a license for anything else? Why am I now deemed unsuitable to own handguns whereas I once was, prior to Dunblane? I own S1 shotguns for crying out loud! Tell me, where is the logic in that? I need a license for rifles and another for shotguns....why? Tell me, what does that achieve? Even if it were the more logical process whereas the person was licensed ( or more accurately registered ) rather than the firearm, it wouldn't mean anything. They did away with registration in Canada of CF rifles a few years ago, as far as I'm aware; there doesn't seem to be the massacres there which some predicted. Everyone who advocates licensing appears to believe it is the answer to prevent crimes from happening.......it isn't. You yourself believe it to be so by your comment 'can you imagine what would be going on here now without firearms licensing.' Who is the more dangerous.......a good person with an unlicensed firearm or a bad person with a licensed firearm? It is no different to a good person with a knife or a bad person with a knife. Vet the person and license THEM, not the firearm; and leave the licensed person to buy what they want. It wont make a scrap of difference to crime figures, but it's the more logical choice. That sentence covers it nicely. no need for extra legislation and if there is then why 12ftlb limit? 1 minute ago, Zapp said: Take the bickering to PMs please. The bickering is more PMT's ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 10 hours ago, turbo33 said: Sadly, Scully, you are indicative of the narrow minded and bluntly ignorant viewpoints on this forum. I will now leave PW to the relentless bullying tactics and knuckle dragging attitudes of what is now sadly the masses. A great shame that a subject cannot be discussed here, but that is how it is. It was a great forum but is now no longer. Slight overreaction. Is Scully not allowed an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, DC177 said: Slight overreaction. Is Scully not allowed an opinion? Priceless !! Is T33 not allowed to express his concerns/opinion? Surely a forum is a platform for discussion,debate and yes differing opinions! Edited July 23, 2018 by Bluebarrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Harnser said: Scully your a troll . harnser Well not if you know the meaning of the word. Can you answer any of the questions I asked in response to turbo 33’s posts? Why does everyone assume the pellet in the deer came from a sub 12ft lb air gun and not a S1, and then claim this as good reason to license them? Further, how will licensing of these prevent their criminal use? As someone else stated, they have found shotgun pellets in deer.....what do we assume from that? I’m not saying everyone and anyone should be allowed to buy firearms, but people really should stop to think things through before they comment. There are enough people proposing suggestions to curtail shooting sports without help from shooters themselves. We await to find out if the shooter in Toronto was a license holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Scully said: We await to find out if the shooter in Toronto was a license holder. Nice! Maybe not the best way to get your point across. Edited July 23, 2018 by Bluebarrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just been reading the Scottish application form for an airgun. Quote Part B 6. Part B of the form seeks information as to why you wish to use, possess, purchase or acquire an air weapon. Under section 5 of the 2015 Act, the Chief Constable must be satisfied that a person has good reason to have an air weapon. APPLICATION FOR THE GRANT OR RENEWAL OF AN AIR WEAPON CERTIFICATE NOTES - Please read these BEFORE completing the form 7. There are many such reasons, including for pest control or the protection of crops; to allow you to participate in club or competition shooting; sport or casual target shooting in a safe environment at home or on land where you have the permission of the owner, etc. You must provide evidence that you have permission to shoot over suitable land, where this is appropriate. Please provide the address of at least one area of land together with the name, address and telephone number of the person who has given you permission to shoot, or the details of an approved air weapon club of which you are a member. You will not necessarily be limited to shooting over that individual piece of land. What would constitute a "Safe environment at home"........... Would anyone who lives in a terraced house with a small back yard have a safe environment to shoot in??? What if he/she didn't have any land to shoot on, or a club to go to; what happens then; do the Scottish police just turn up and take the gun away??? I am absolutely convinced that there are thousands of decent law-abiding airgun owners who have become criminals over the last year because they simply have not applied for an Airgun licence due to the fact that they are scared of losing their guns. Add this the the thousands of neds, ne'er-do-wells and scumbags who will never apply (and don't give a toss) and you have a nation with thousands of unlicensed airguns and no way of knowing where they are and who owns them. Complete madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Bluebarrels said: Priceless !! Is T33 not allowed to express his concerns/opinion? Surely a forum is a platform for discussion,debate and yes differing opinions! Really? Of course he can, but he doesn’t need to rage quit and call others trolls because they have a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Bluebarrels said: Nice! Maybe not the best way to get your point across. Why? If the firearms were licensed then it proves your theory that licensing is what is needed, is wrong. If they were illegally held firearms then no amount of licensing can cater for such events. There can be no winners here, but to make the simplistic statement that air guns should be licensed to prevent illegal acts such as deer being shot with them, is just simply naive, and does no one any favours at all. The next step is to ban them altogether.....will that prevent deer or kiddies being shot with them? If licensing was all that was required, many people would still be alive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, Scully said: Why? If the firearms were licensed then it proves your theory that licensing is what is needed, is wrong. If they were illegally held firearms then no amount of licensing can cater for such events. There can be no winners here, but to make the simplistic statement that air guns should be licensed to prevent illegal acts such as deer being shot with them, is just simply naive, and does no one any favours at all. The next step is to ban them altogether.....will that prevent deer or kiddies being shot with them? If licensing was all that was required, many people would still be alive today. You cant argue with that, but still some people try ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Zapp has already asked for the bickering to go to PM. If it continues then this thread will close, Reasoned debate is good, name calling and bickering isn't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, DC177 said: Really? Of course he can, but he doesn’t need to rage quit and call others trolls because they have a different opinion. Oh the irony! You did exactly this to me last week on another thread(accuse me of been a troll)because my opinion differed to yours. Anyway that's me done on this thread I have better things to be doing!! Have a nice day ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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