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    Im currently looking for a new dog and to be honest im struggling making a decision as in which type i rough shoot and pigeon shoot so looking for an all rounder i suppose i currently have an elderly border terrier so im also a novice at gun dog training any suggestions of breeds and advice would be appreciated thanks in advance 

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    Choices choices, what a question. Well my choice , because I have loved every one I have had would be a viszla BUT there again one of my best all rounders was a German Short Hair, but there again by far my best all round hunting dog and parner was my choccie labrador Muffin, so I have to say labrador.   Now sit back and wait for the avalanche of other suggestions.

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    Hahaha ive looked at the gsp and the korthals Griffon the latter pretty rare i also thought about the sprocker thanks for the input 

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    Must admit i look at working dogs a wee bit differently.esp when giving advice to a 1st time/novice handler.

    Instead of looking ofr the best of each breed u want to be looking for both the worst and ur average dogs of that breed and thinking could i handle a dog as poor as that??

    If u were a betting man a lab would be a fairly safe odds on favourite (very good chance u'll end up with a decent shooting dog), ur spaniel would be more of an outside bet (but with a bit of luck and hard work u might end up with a decent dog) an HPR is just a 300/1 shot in the national.(if it comes in ur the happiest man alive and shout it from the roof tops, but usually/often u'll end up with problems and never tell anyone.) U don't have to speak to that many hpr owners to hear a few horror stories.

     

    As a 1sr working dog for a complete novice it really has to be a Lab, does everything u want plus really easy to train and also really forgiving dogs for when u make mistakes usually very easy to rectify.

    Also usually prety easy the rest of the time in ur day to day life (usually friendly, placid quiet etc)

     

    Out of courisoty why would u reccommend a sprocker?? Is it really going to do anything different from either a springer or a cocker?

    I'd advise u to avoid any of the HPR breeds, can be great dogs in the right hands but can be complete nightmares if u either don't know wot ur doing or get a very 'fired up' individual. Can be massive variations in temperments between individuals

     

    I work my dogs on a lot of different shoots and being honest most working dogs are pretty poorly trained and many are terrible, in most cases u can live with a poor lab, a poor spaniel can be a nightmare but depending how poor again u can cope, a poor hpr is just a nightmare full stop.

     

    Despite coming across as a lab man i'm not really each breed has its own merits and flaws, but a lab is probably more average/good and most things.whereas some other breeds excel at 1 thing but are poor at others.

    A good dog is never the wrong colour or breed

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    12 minutes ago, scotslad said:

    Must admit i look at working dogs a wee bit differently.esp when giving advice to a 1st time/novice handler.

    Instead of looking ofr the best of each breed u want to be looking for both the worst and ur average dogs of that breed and thinking could i handle a dog as poor as that??

    If u were a betting man a lab would be a fairly safe odds on favourite (very good chance u'll end up with a decent shooting dog), ur spaniel would be more of an outside bet (but with a bit of luck and hard work u might end up with a decent dog) an HPR is just a 300/1 shot in the national.(if it comes in ur the happiest man alive and shout it from the roof tops, but usually/often u'll end up with problems and never tell anyone.) U don't have to speak to that many hpr owners to hear a few horror stories.

     

    As a 1sr working dog for a complete novice it really has to be a Lab, does everything u want plus really easy to train and also really forgiving dogs for when u make mistakes usually very easy to rectify.

    Also usually prety easy the rest of the time in ur day to day life (usually friendly, placid quiet etc)

     

    Out of courisoty why would u reccommend a sprocker?? Is it really going to do anything different from either a springer or a cocker?

    I'd advise u to avoid any of the HPR breeds, can be great dogs in the right hands but can be complete nightmares if u either don't know wot ur doing or get a very 'fired up' individual. Can be massive variations in temperments between individuals

     

    I work my dogs on a lot of different shoots and being honest most working dogs are pretty poorly trained and many are terrible, in most cases u can live with a poor lab, a poor spaniel can be a nightmare but depending how poor again u can cope, a poor hpr is just a nightmare full stop.

     

    Despite coming across as a lab man i'm not really each breed has its own merits and flaws, but a lab is probably more average/good and most things.whereas some other breeds excel at 1 thing but are poor at others.

    A good dog is never the wrong colour or breed

    Seconded :good:

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    9 hours ago, scotslad said:

    Must admit i look at working dogs a wee bit differently.esp when giving advice to a 1st time/novice handler.

    Instead of looking ofr the best of each breed u want to be looking for both the worst and ur average dogs of that breed and thinking could i handle a dog as poor as that??

    If u were a betting man a lab would be a fairly safe odds on favourite (very good chance u'll end up with a decent shooting dog), ur spaniel would be more of an outside bet (but with a bit of luck and hard work u might end up with a decent dog) an HPR is just a 300/1 shot in the national.(if it comes in ur the happiest man alive and shout it from the roof tops, but usually/often u'll end up with problems and never tell anyone.) U don't have to speak to that many hpr owners to hear a few horror stories.

     

    As a 1sr working dog for a complete novice it really has to be a Lab, does everything u want plus really easy to train and also really forgiving dogs for when u make mistakes usually very easy to rectify.

    Also usually prety easy the rest of the time in ur day to day life (usually friendly, placid quiet etc)

     

    Out of courisoty why would u reccommend a sprocker?? Is it really going to do anything different from either a springer or a cocker?

    I'd advise u to avoid any of the HPR breeds, can be great dogs in the right hands but can be complete nightmares if u either don't know wot ur doing or get a very 'fired up' individual. Can be massive variations in temperments between individuals

     

    I work my dogs on a lot of different shoots and being honest most working dogs are pretty poorly trained and many are terrible, in most cases u can live with a poor lab, a poor spaniel can be a nightmare but depending how poor again u can cope, a poor hpr is just a nightmare full stop.

     

    Despite coming across as a lab man i'm not really each breed has its own merits and flaws, but a lab is probably more average/good and most things.whereas some other breeds excel at 1 thing but are poor at others.

    A good dog is never the wrong colour or breed

    Cheers for the advice a friend recommended a sprocker apparently less nuts than a springer 

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    Why would a sprocker be less nuts than a springer? You could end up with the worst traits from both dog's. What ever you buy try and see both parent's and ask for a short demo of them working that will give you a rough idea of what the dog could end up being like. Just take your time doing the training and enjoy doing it. 

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    Cross a 'Pocket Rocket' with a Springer and you get the best and worst of both breeds.  IF you have the ability you can finish up with a very good dog but give them half a chance and you will have real trouble. They are not dissimilar to GSP/Viszla they require firm handling right from word go and that doesn't mean hauling them up by the ears as I have seen a number of spaniel owners do ..that's just a sign THEY have failed not the dog.  It starts right from their first meal.  That includes Labs as well.  

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    1 hour ago, B725 said:

    Why would a sprocker be less nuts than a springer? You could end up with the worst traits from both dog's. What ever you buy try and see both parent's and ask for a short demo of them working that will give you a rough idea of what the dog could end up being like. Just take your time doing the training and enjoy doing it. 

    Cheers will do will be a lot of time and effort whichever breed I get

    17 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

    Cross a 'Pocket Rocket' with a Springer and you get the best and worst of both breeds.  IF you have the ability you can finish up with a very good dog but give them half a chance and you will have real trouble. They are not dissimilar to GSP/Viszla they require firm handling right from word go and that doesn't mean hauling them up by the ears as I have seen a number of spaniel owners do ..that's just a sign THEY have failed not the dog.  It starts right from their first meal.  That includes Labs as well.  

    That makes sense cant see what hurting the dog achieves apart from venting you're own frustrations from your own failures cheers for the advice 

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    Most of my shooting is similar to yourself I have a young springer and is very biddable and been easy to train but I am biased towards ESS. So far he will do it all. 

    20171203_092300.jpg

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    I bought a cocker. He would be great but his trainer is rubbish. He will work in a hide on pigeons but it's hard to stop him running in for shot crows. He will retrieve pheasant that i shoot but if another one goes up at the same time, who knows what will happen. He will hunt out shot deer, foxes or rabbits. Never stops and fantastic company but next time I will get a lab or maybe a collie. 

    He could be so good but the owner has let him down ?

     

    IMG_3075 (1).JPG

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    On 03/08/2018 at 08:03, B725 said:

    Why would a sprocker be less nuts than a springer? You could end up with the worst traits from both dog's. What ever you buy try and see both parent's and ask for a short demo of them working that will give you a rough idea of what the dog could end up being like. Just take your time doing the training and enjoy doing it. 

    Agreed, steer clear of mongrels and get whatever breed you choose from a good recognised breeder who can discuss his dogs traits before you buy. I travel a long way to get calm biddable labs because many are just too fast.

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    My mate got a sprocker, he said it’s no where near as good as his springer he had. 

    The biggest things I’ve seen that influences a good dog, is having a good trainer. 

    Some dog breeds are more forgiving, eg a lab is easier to train. I had a lab first time and most stuff was easy, although found it quite boring, much much preferred working with a springer. 

    HPR’s are again much less forgiving and would not be recommended for a beginner.

     

    I always found the vast majority of people choose dogs that they like the look of, rather than what would be best for their situations. Think hard about how much time you spend sat in the hide VS how much rough shooting you do. 

    A springer is known as a fantastic all-rounder, whilst labs are known to be born half trained.

    I personally wouldn’t bother with a sprocker, can’t see how they could possibly as a breed be better than any other. Individual dogs can be better than others, but the ones I’ve seen haven’t been as good. 

     

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    this is my ziggy .

    3 this week and a perfect english springer spaniel. 

    For me he is the perfect dog .

    Family pet ,work collegue and gundog .

    Does every thing i need him to do and more .

     

     

    IMG_20180804_231854.jpg

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    11 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    My mate got a sprocker, he said it’s no where near as good as his springer he had. 

    The biggest things I’ve seen that influences a good dog, is having a good trainer. 

    Some dog breeds are more forgiving, eg a lab is easier to train. I had a lab first time and most stuff was easy, although found it quite boring, much much preferred working with a springer. 

    HPR’s are again much less forgiving and would not be recommended for a beginner.

     

    I always found the vast majority of people choose dogs that they like the look of, rather than what would be best for their situations. Think hard about how much time you spend sat in the hide VS how much rough shooting you do. 

    A springer is known as a fantastic all-rounder, whilst labs are known to be born half trained.

    I personally wouldn’t bother with a sprocker, can’t see how they could possibly as a breed be better than any other. Individual dogs can be better than others, but the ones I’ve seen haven’t been as good. 

     

    Sound advice thanks i will have been pigeon shooting twice this week and for most of the year whereas game season only bout 4 months long food for thought 

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    Must admit i do also often think folk look at choosing a dog breed back to front too.

     

    Usually u see threads can a 'xxxxxx' do this or that (often an hpr) and while often the right dog could with the right trainer wot there asking of the dog is pretty much using the dog's biggest weaknesses.

    But some dogs are also physically not ideal for various jobs too spaniels or smooth coated HPR's (and some 'poorly/well'  bred modern FT  labs) with their light single coat not ideal for long cold wet conditions, small dogs on large geese/hares etc yes they'll do it but will struggle, if u do a lot of that get a larger breed

    And the main reason for attemptig to fit a square eg in a round hole is the looks/fashion

    Really u should be looking at ur shooting and seeing wot u want a dog to do and then looking at various breeds and ideally chosing a dog which its strong points mirror wot u want a dog to do. If u do that u'll end up with a easily trained (as everything u train will be natural to it) decent working dog

    I'm far more practical and just want dogs to do the job i ask of them, really don't care wot colour or breed they are too much

     

     

    Edited by scotslad

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    Hi

    have you considered getting a trained one lots of trailing people keep a few dogs and train them then pick the one they think will be the best and sell on the slower not so stylish ones 

    however if you’re going to get a pup and it’s your first dog listen to Scots lad 

    get a lab ??

    not my breed prefer golden retrievers I do However have cockers and springers as I recognised that you can need a different dog for a different job 

    not much point in sending a cocker on a strong running cockbird if you have a retriever ?

    best of luck with your choice 

    of

    37BB76CE-CEC0-41A6-A9B9-C3505F570A39.jpeg

    Edited by Old farrier
    Picture added

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    A lot of sound knowledge makes sense to get the dog that is best for what i want it to do instead of getting a square peg for a round hole lovely lookin lab pups by the way 

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    16 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    My mate got a sprocker, he said it’s no where near as good as his springer he had

    The biggest things I’ve seen that influences a good dog, is having a good trainer. 

    Some dog breeds are more forgiving, eg a lab is easier to train. I had a lab first time and most stuff was easy, although found it quite boring, much much preferred working with a springer. 

    HPR’s are again much less forgiving and would not be recommended for a beginner.

     

    I always found the vast majority of people choose dogs that they like the look of, rather than what would be best for their situations. Think hard about how much time you spend sat in the hide VS how much rough shooting you do. 

    A springer is known as a fantastic all-rounder, whilst labs are known to be born half trained.

    I personally wouldn’t bother with a sprocker, can’t see how they could possibly as a breed be better than any other. Individual dogs can be better than others, but the ones I’ve seen haven’t been as good. 

     

    Highlighted a few lines... first two make no sense, that's like me saying my current springer is no good compared to my previous ones (springers). My current cocker (retired) totally changed my view on cockers and is as good (or better) as any springer I have owned. I currently work as a result of an accidental mating two sprockers and where I will agree that you cant predict the temperament of which parent the pup will follow if both parents are working I fail to see the problem. I am sure that many owners of working long dogs are familiar with the term 'hybrid vigour' and I think this applies to all breeds or even species. ?   

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