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Lee456

Which dog

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    On 07/08/2018 at 16:32, Gerry78 said:

    LEE456 everyone with a gun dog will give you different opinions which is what you asked  ? My advice for you if you have a breed which you have your heart set on then go for that breed means then you will never second guess yourself mate

    Cheers looks like ive started ww3 on here relised before i posted id be opening a can of worms just trying to avoid the obvious or not so obvious pitfalls springer or sprocker (spaniel) for me would be the logical choice 

    23 hours ago, daveboy said:

    I wouldn't have a Labrador. Have you seen how many of their owners end up blind ?

    ? 

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    Lee456 when i wanted my first gun dog i like you asked people who i shot with there opinions they certainly give me them on the pros and cons of the breeds they hunted with ranging from Labs to Italian Spinone and everything in between i bought my first dog which was a Lab many moons ago and still have labradors my heart was set on a lab and as i said in earlier post go with your instinct if you fancy a springer or sprocker then go for it mate

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    On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 22:38, AYA117 said:

    Get a Flatcoat and as long as you stay on the medication it will work out just fine    

    I am on my third and the medication really does work, also had two labs and they are much easier to train. A new pup in the spring and cannot decide which of the two to go for.

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    23 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

    Lee456 when i wanted my first gun dog i like you asked people who i shot with there opinions they certainly give me them on the pros and cons of the breeds they hunted with ranging from Labs to Italian Spinone and everything in between i bought my first dog which was a Lab many moons ago and still have labradors my heart was set on a lab and as i said in earlier post go with your instinct if you fancy a springer or sprocker then go for it mate

    Cheers have put a deposit down on a sprocker this afternoon my work starts at the end of the month 

    Would like to thank everyone for the advice i decided on a springer or sprocker put a deposit down on a sprocker bitch this afternoon a lot to do with the shoot i have dykes ect plus my rough shoot is one man and his dog my work starts at the end of August im sure it will be challenging and hopefully rewarding thanks again 

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    10 hours ago, B725 said:

    Good luck with it let us all know how you get on ?

     

    12 hours ago, Lee456 said:

    Cheers have put a deposit down on a sprocker this afternoon my work starts at the end of the month 

    Would like to thank everyone for the advice i decided on a springer or sprocker put a deposit down on a sprocker bitch this afternoon a lot to do with the shoot i have dykes ect plus my rough shoot is one man and his dog my work starts at the end of August im sure it will be challenging and hopefully rewarding thanks again 

    Good luck mate - post some pictures :) 

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    Before training starts shave your head it stops you pulling your hair out ?

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    9 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

     

    Good luck mate - post some pictures :) 

    Thanks and will do 

    1 hour ago, B725 said:

    Before training starts shave your head it stops you pulling your hair out ?

    ? Already done and gone

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    I am on my 5th Cocker and my latest is the most mental yet.  Great little dogs though if you just want a job doing, they have all hunted and retrieved superbly  if a little chaotic at times lol.  Not a peg dog.

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    22 hours ago, JRDS said:

    I am on my 5th Cocker and my latest is the most mental yet.  Great little dogs though if you just want a job doing, they have all hunted and retrieved superbly  if a little chaotic at times lol.  Not a peg dog.

    • There's a big trend atm to have cockers as peg dogs (and a few springers as well) ... try telling people they go mental... I've always found if you say something bad about someones wife, there's a better chance of them agreeing than if you say something bad about their dog ?

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    On 15/08/2018 at 20:58, Lloyd90 said:
    • There's a big trend atm to have cockers as peg dogs (and a few springers as well) ... try telling people they go mental... I've always found if you say something bad about someones wife, there's a better chance of them agreeing than if you say something bad about their dog ?

     

    Ian Openshaw (rytex, for those that don't know if any prob UK's most succesful FT trainer ever think had over 100 FTCH's now) he said something very similar in an article a few years back, something like "call his wife a fat pig its just a joke but critise their dog and ur the biggest B****** that ever walked the earth"

    Which considering there paying him to lookat there dog is a queer response, but is often the way.

     

    When i got my 1st dog again after being out of keeperig, so training it myself (but had loads of experiencing working/helping with headkeepers dogs) it was only ever going to be 1 thing, an ABL (annonomus black lab) easy to fo find decent working dogs, easy to train, everyone has them so must be ok (and u have the added annonomus factor ifur dog has a moment) plus they do everything u could want with a beating/rough shooting/peg/hide dog.

    There like ur ford escort/vaux astra of the gundog world can do most things pretty well and just get the job done, althou mibee not as fancy or turn heads or a trendy fashion statemnet the way other dogs do

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    7 hours ago, scotslad said:

     

    Ian Openshaw (rytex, for those that don't know if any prob UK's most succesful FT trainer ever think had over 100 FTCH's now) he said something very similar in an article a few years back, something like "call his wife a fat pig its just a joke but critise their dog and ur the biggest B****** that ever walked the earth"

    Which considering there paying him to lookat there dog is a queer response, but is often the way.

     

    When i got my 1st dog again after being out of keeperig, so training it myself (but had loads of experiencing working/helping with headkeepers dogs) it was only ever going to be 1 thing, an ABL (annonomus black lab) easy to fo find decent working dogs, easy to train, everyone has them so must be ok (and u have the added annonomus factor ifur dog has a moment) plus they do everything u could want with a beating/rough shooting/peg/hide dog.

    There like ur ford escort/vaux astra of the gundog world can do most things pretty well and just get the job done, althou mibee not as fancy or turn heads or a trendy fashion statemnet the way other dogs do

    There’s a reason they’re so common mate, theyre fairly easy to train, work well, lovely family dogs, great general companions and adaptable to most types of shooting. 

    Im enjoying having my spaniel tho :) might have another lab one day in future. 

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    Just to throw another into the mix is the Springador, deliberate 1st x between springer and lab. I saw my first over a decade ago and whenever I have come across any since they are really good working dogs. I always used to be against cross breeds but for an easy to train dog that has none of the potential issues of the Lab breed these are hard to beat. 

    I have 2 from one litter from a very reputable breeder of Working labs, the sire (lab) and dam(springer) were both excellent working dogs and both my pups have been awesome from day one. 1 has more patience than the other and is an incredible peg dog, the other busy one is a tireless cover clearer. They have both been a breeze to train and will take on pretty much anything I ask of them. 

    IMHO, far more important than the breed of dog is actually seeing both parents and seeing their temperament not that is any guarantee to how well behaved a pup from them can be. 

    The old saying is “labradors are born 1/2 trained, spaniels die 1/2trained” and sadly I have seen badly behaved examples of both breeds on shoots. 

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    On 27/08/2018 at 16:50, The Burpster said:

    Just to throw another into the mix is the Springador, deliberate 1st x between springer and lab. I saw my first over a decade ago and whenever I have come across any since they are really good working dogs. I always used to be against cross breeds but for an easy to train dog that has none of the potential issues of the Lab breed these are hard to beat. 

    I have 2 from one litter from a very reputable breeder of Working labs, the sire (lab) and dam(springer) were both excellent working dogs and both my pups have been awesome from day one. 1 has more patience than the other and is an incredible peg dog, the other busy one is a tireless cover clearer. They have both been a breeze to train and will take on pretty much anything I ask of them. 

    IMHO, far more important than the breed of dog is actually seeing both parents and seeing their temperament not that is any guarantee to how well behaved a pup from them can be. 

    The old saying is “labradors are born 1/2 trained, spaniels die 1/2trained” and sadly I have seen badly behaved examples of both breeds on shoots. 

    No offence but anyone who crosses two completely different types of breed shouldn't be considered a reputable breeder. 

     

     

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    22 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    No offence but anyone who crosses two completely different types of breed shouldn't be considered a reputable breeder. 

     

     

    The diversity of breeds we have today have been created by doing just that. Selecting different breeds and crossing them to obtain something different. 

    If a breeder and owner of two gundog breeds  has found by crossing them they obtain dogs that suit their purpose I see nothing disreputable in that.

    Its when dogs are churned out to suit a market regardless of health, temperament and suitability just to make money without concern for the dog and bitch and puppies welfare and developement it becomes disreputable regardless of whether they are purebred or crossbred.

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    44 minutes ago, loriusgarrulus said:

    The diversity of breeds we have today have been created by doing just that. Selecting different breeds and crossing them to obtain something different. 

    If a breeder and owner of two gundog breeds  has found by crossing them they obtain dogs that suit their purpose I see nothing disreputable in that.

    Its when dogs are churned out to suit a market regardless of health, temperament and suitability just to make money without concern for the dog and bitch and puppies welfare and developement it becomes disreputable regardless of whether they are purebred or crossbred.

    From experience I’ve noticed many breeders have the maximum number of litters they are allowed to register with the KC, then once that’s done they start knocking out the cross breeds. 

    They wont tell you “I can’t keep charging for KC pups because I’ve had too many”. They often instead tell you what fantastic workers the cross breeds are and how you should buy one from them ... 

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    7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    From experience I’ve noticed many breeders have the maximum number of litters they are allowed to register with the KC, then once that’s done they start knocking out the cross breeds. 

    They wont tell you “I can’t keep charging for KC pups because I’ve had too many”. They often instead tell you what fantastic workers the cross breeds are and how you should buy one from them ... 

    Hence my last paragraph.

    There is nothing to stop them breeding pedigree dogs with a pedigree once the maximum litters allowed by KC is complete. They can come with a pedigree showing lineage. They just won't be kennel club registered. Many good purebred gundogs are not kennel club registered either.

    Years ago the KC didn't provide pedigree certificates, you had to handwrite your own. The KC registration was a load of form filling in and sending off by post for a separate certificate of registration.

    Looking at some of the monstrocities that are KC registered and win at their shows its not always the best reccomendation.

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    On 02/08/2018 at 23:43, scotslad said:

    Must admit i look at working dogs a wee bit differently.esp when giving advice to a 1st time/novice handler.

    Instead of looking ofr the best of each breed u want to be looking for both the worst and ur average dogs of that breed and thinking could i handle a dog as poor as that??

    If u were a betting man a lab would be a fairly safe odds on favourite (very good chance u'll end up with a decent shooting dog), ur spaniel would be more of an outside bet (but with a bit of luck and hard work u might end up with a decent dog) an HPR is just a 300/1 shot in the national.(if it comes in ur the happiest man alive and shout it from the roof tops, but usually/often u'll end up with problems and never tell anyone.) U don't have to speak to that many hpr owners to hear a few horror stories.

     

    As a 1sr working dog for a complete novice it really has to be a Lab, does everything u want plus really easy to train and also really forgiving dogs for when u make mistakes usually very easy to rectify.

    Also usually prety easy the rest of the time in ur day to day life (usually friendly, placid quiet etc)

     

    Out of courisoty why would u reccommend a sprocker?? Is it really going to do anything different from either a springer or a cocker?

    I'd advise u to avoid any of the HPR breeds, can be great dogs in the right hands but can be complete nightmares if u either don't know wot ur doing or get a very 'fired up' individual. Can be massive variations in temperments between individuals

     

    I work my dogs on a lot of different shoots and being honest most working dogs are pretty poorly trained and many are terrible, in most cases u can live with a poor lab, a poor spaniel can be a nightmare but depending how poor again u can cope, a poor hpr is just a nightmare full stop.

     

    Despite coming across as a lab man i'm not really each breed has its own merits and flaws, but a lab is probably more average/good and most things.whereas some other breeds excel at 1 thing but are poor at others.

    A good dog is never the wrong colour or breed

    Great advice. Although to be honest, my first dog was a cocker. I had so much fun training her and she turned out to be a cracker. But I suppose at 13 years old I had plenty of energy to run!

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