Dave-G Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Thinkering well ahead of commencing a bathroom refit - possibly swapping a walk in shower unit into the current bath area. Our sink and bath presumably drain into the soil stack which is boarded in so I cannot prove it to myself at this time but there is no visible oulet to be seen. With a shower having a slower discharge than pulling the plug of a full bath is it acceptable to have it discharge into the roof/conservatory guttering downpipe so I can divert most of it into the three 'overflow catchment' inline water butts I have for watering the garden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Don’t see why not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millrace Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Nope...its dirty soapy water foul drainage.... But yes of coarse you can if you like tho not sure id want to water the plants with it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 I'd have a look at Building Regs Part H - shower discharge is still foul water. Even if you aren't bothered, could be an issue if/when you want to sell your house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 You can put bath water on garden with no problem.it will not hurt them I have done this summer to water the greenhouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Swinton said: You can put bath water on garden with no problem.it will not hurt them I have done this summer to water the greenhouse Yes but rules are rules even if they don't make any sense or are utterly stupid. There are always boxes that need ticking in today's world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dave-G said: Thinkering well ahead of commencing a bathroom refit - possibly swapping a walk in shower unit into the current bath area. Our sink and bath presumably drain into the soil stack which is boarded in so I cannot prove it to myself at this time but there is no visible oulet to be seen. With a shower having a slower discharge than pulling the plug of a full bath is it acceptable to have it discharge into the roof/conservatory guttering downpipe so I can divert most of it into the three 'overflow catchment' inline water butts I have for watering the garden? If anyone found out (as has been mooted above) it's just not worth the hassle. The foul water on the garden is classed as a contaminant, and your insurance company would null and void any policy due to possible foundation detrimental issues. Edited August 16, 2018 by KB1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 So you can not put bath water on the garden then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonm Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Swinton said: So you can not put bath water on the garden then Yes but only if you carry out outside in a bucket ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 As stated can not be direct drained from the source, but can be transported and used. (grey water is the term) Unless you refrain from taking showers in the wetter winter months what were your plans for excess water in these months, just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Konnie: Water is only diverted into the 3 butts until it reaches reach their input level - at which time it overflows the diversion device and carries on down the pipe... into the sewer anyway. It uses one of these devices: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Water-Butt-Rain-Diverter-Kit/p/543003?CAWELAID=120135120000015174&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=52608968344&CATCI=aud-305024815433:pla-489704406607&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyOT487fy3AIVLbHtCh1B8wQhEAQYBCABEgKWaPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CPfV0v238twCFS2oUQodZOgLBA My brother who does ground works also mooted the foul water aspect - but assumed it might only apply to newer houses when I pointed out that my and the adjoining neighbours (semi detached) roofs drain to the sewer. He's only been doing groundworks for about 10 years so might only be familiar with new regs. Our estate was built about 1988. Could someone confirm that roof guttering was allowed to drain into sewers at that sort of time please - and if it was can I therefore carry on with the plan? After a quick Google: I think it may be a combined sewer system - and the estate is on a hill that would be highly unlikely to see sewage rise above manholes if that makes a difference (rings a bell somewhere in my slightly dyslexic brain) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 (edited) foul water is just that but water from sink (bathroom or kitchen) bath and shower washing machine etc is grey water and can be used on the garden you can store and use at leisure also tap into down pipe water to be used for toilets without any problems just requires a pump and altering your plumbing water from the roof can be used as drinking water but not from an asbestos roof parents and grandparents did this its nothing new if you are worried about pathogens in the water storage tank you can use hydrated lime to clear it up our grandparents did this as normal no resource was wasted its nothing new Edited August 20, 2018 by Saltings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 On 16/08/2018 at 22:19, Dave-G said: Could someone confirm that roof guttering was allowed to drain into sewers at that sort of time please - and if it was can I therefore carry on with the plan? Certainly it used to be allowed. My house (over 300 years old mostly) used (as at 50 years ago) to have a septic tank. ALL drains went into the tank, foul water, washing water, kitchen/utility water, roof water. When mains drainage was provided (1970 ish), the old pipe leading to the septic tank was simply switched to flow into the mains drainage system - because it was too difficult to separate the various flows into different pipes (much of which was combined underground). You paid an additional fee on your water rates (now water bill) to cover 'surface water' drainage (i.e. roof and drive etc.). When I had a big building programme carried out a couple of years ago, I looked at separating them (to save paying more to the water authority). What was required to do this was to feed all rainwater and surface drainage into either ditches (requires approval from the local authority) or soakaways (need to meet building regs). Owing to my house having cellars, my architect ruled out soakaways (which stood a high chance of making it into the cellars) and a number of (protected) trees between me and the nearest ditch made a pipe there to risky for tree roots (damage to roots and subsequent risk to pipes from root penetration). I therefore still use the mains drainage and pay the additional charge. On modern build surface water is not normally allowed into the mains drainage I believe, having to go into soakaways or clean watercourses (where flood measures may need buffer gathering lagoons). Legacy systems are allowed to stay as is. I am not sure of the 'cut off dates'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) Thanks John, There are soakaways here for the tarmack drives which slant towards the front of the house - which I have now replaced with block paving. Both the front and rear roofs of our adjoining properties drain to the sewage system under my rear garden so I'm assuming its safe to re-route the shower to join the outside rear gutter downpipe. I'll of course confirm the bath currently drains to the soil stack when I rip out the bath and remove the boarding that conceals the stack. What makes things sound slightly more complicated is our two semi's, and several others here were originally built as detached five bed houses that didn't sell so they got converted to two bed semi's with a thin separating wall between the front doors. Thus my downpipes drain both roofs. Edited August 20, 2018 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear-uk Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 There's a good chance Dave that although your top water drains into a sewer pipe it will be a different one to your toilet sewer. The top water might go straight into the river whereas the other will go go the sewage works. I have three manhole covers for separate pipes. Sewerage, Grey water and top water. Fire yours down the right hole ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, bear-uk said: There's a good chance Dave that although your top water drains into a sewer pipe it will be a different one to your toilet sewer. The top water might go straight into the river whereas the other will go go the sewage works. I have three manhole covers for separate pipes. Sewerage, Grey water and top water. Fire yours down the right hole ? Yup - point taken thanks. When I've traced the bath drain pipe I'll lift the sewer lid and let some water out to see if it travels the same route. I'm almost certain it will because when I put our conservatory up I'd dug down to where the outside drain grid for the outside tap - and the kitchen sink outlet pipe drained into what I'm almost sure is the toilet sewer. I'll be double checking this issue now with all the cautions posted here. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin-till Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) You can’t drain your shower into your roof drainage. Where you live is most probably not a combined sewer system & if it is it would still not be allowed without a, building control being asked/ notified, b, some kind of trapped system. Im a Civil Engineer and am currently employed by a local Authority as their Drainage Engineer. Edited August 22, 2018 by martin-till Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, martin-till said: You can’t drain your shower into your roof drainage. Where you live is most probably not a combined sewer system & if it is it would still not be allowed without a, building control being asked/ notified, b, some kind of trapped system. Im a Civil Engineer and am currently employed by a local Authority as their Drainage Engineer. Blimey, I hadn't considered a trap to be honest Martin - Thanks. I'm thinking there won't be enough space under the modern shallow shower base for a trap without cutting it into the floor cavity above the kitchen ceiling. In my minds eye the toilet cistern and roof space header tank both have overflows straight through the rear wall of the house so it seemed natural to let the shower outlet go through the same wall to drain into the rain down pipe via the conservatory roof guttering 'scoop' - which has a 'Y' junction above the water butt diversion. I can see me not bothering to improve the bathroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Why can't you reuse the bath waste,build a base for the shower lifting it up a couple of inches the shower tray needs to be on a firm level base anyway.You can still have a walk in shower it will just have a small step. I did similar at my mates house he replaced the bath with a shower cubicle the same size of the bath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 22, 2018 Report Share Posted August 22, 2018 Many new houses have grey water recycling. How does that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 9 hours ago, oowee said: Many new houses have grey water recycling. How does that work? Bath/shower and WHBs drain to specific storage vessel - this is then pumped to feed WCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: Bath/shower and WHBs drain to specific storage vessel - this is then pumped to feed WCs. Is it treated at all? What happens with sediment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 Unless you are a particularly filthy b***** there is only a little soap residue in the water and the pump keeps that stirred fairly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, B725 said: Why can't you reuse the bath waste,build a base for the shower lifting it up a couple of inches the shower tray needs to be on a firm level base anyway.You can still have a walk in shower it will just have a small step. I did similar at my mates house he replaced the bath with a shower cubicle the same size of the bath. Yes - I guess I could build a shuttering frame to fill with concrete a few inches high onto the wooden bathroom floor. Bear in mind I'm only thinking ahead at this time and have had a casual walkabout in a bathroom suppliers shop where I saw a sticker on one of the bases indicating it needs to be fitted to a 'wet cement base' Wondering if foam could be used beneath the concrete to reduce the weight - like that used under concrete flooring. I'm a bit daunted about the weight of a thick concrete base - but I guess it won't be heavier than a bath full of water - which might only be supported on four legs rather than evenly spead over the whole base area boarding. I'm beginning to feel a little trepidation about the idea now TBH. Edited August 23, 2018 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 Mine and the one at my mates is a 3x2 frame with 19mm ply wood on top so its perfectly flat resin tray glued down never moved or creaked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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