Pump for PCP or is tank my only option

[dooseydog]

Is a pump suitable for an occasional (10 shots in garden per day ) PCP shooter if ;

15 miles from nearest tank refill facility 

61 years old and unfit 

I appreciate a bit of a bizarre question but fancy a PCP but wanted to avoid tank paraphernalia and cost yet don’t want a self induced heart attack 

 

[Flyboy1950]

Don`t see why not. You don`t have to do all the refill pumping in one go to bring the rifle back to 200 bar, a couple of pumps and stop for a cuppa then a few more. As you say it`s only wanted for the occasional 10 shots per day. 

Go for it FB.

[Ultrastu]

A good thing to consider the the working pressure range of the gun .

Eg .the older bsa scorpion and ultra worked between 180 bar down to 90 bar (.177) and  170 - 80 (.22 ) .

But the newer bsa scorpion /ultra  se 

Work between 240 - 140 bar(.177 ) .and 

220 -120  bar in .22 

 

Its allways harder to pump to a higher pressure .so an older bsa ultra in .22 (the ultra has a smaller tank) 

Would be a LOT easier to pump up over a .177 scorpion se .

As you only need to fill to 170 bar instead of 240 bar .which is significant 

[chrisjpainter]

I'd go for a pump, I reckon. The way PCP's work is they give you a certain number of shots before the power starts to drop - that's true of a regulated gun or an unregulated gun. So, you're never filling from empty anyway. Most lose energy around the 90bar mark and as UltraStu says, a lot of air rifles only need to be filled up to 170-180 mark. So if you have a reasonably small air reserve and you only need to top up 90 bar to get your shots, it's very little work.

Plenty of guns would fit the bill, and don't think you're losing out on the quality of the air rifle - the S410's one of the best around and that fits the criteria perfectly.

 

 

As an aside, I had an Air Wolf with a 500cc bottle and a working pressure of 230bar and filled that up from empty with a pump. Once. 

[dooseydog]

Folks , thank you for the advice , can I rack your brains as to the best lower pressure rifles !!!!!

[Walker570]

I have a Mk1 AA S200 and it requires a180 fill/top up. I use a pump and it takes me a minute at the most with the pump.  Never fired more than two mags(20) shots, so if that is about your limit then go for a pump.  Advice is, use your upper body weight for the last few pounds as this makes the job much easier. I'm within two weeks of being in my 78th year and do not find the operation of the pump difficult at all. 

I have been very happy with my second hand purchase of the AA S200. It has seen the demise of a lot of barn pigeons, magpies and tree rats out to 40yrds since purchase. Took a while to find a pellet it liked but I think this is the nature of air rifles from what I read.

[crazycooker]

For such few shots per day how about a co2 rifle 

[dooseydog]

Folks thank you for your time in responding 

re: CO2 , what would you recommend ? And why ? 

Regards 

James

[crazycooker]

Light accurate some have  comparable power no pumping tuneable lots of shots with88 g capsules and can be cheaper 

you haven’t said what your shooting at, paper or vermin ?

Edited August 17, 2018 by crazycooker

[dooseydog]

Paper , reactive targets and RATS 

Edited August 17, 2018 by dooseydog

[crazycooker]

Google co2rifles  they may be of consideration for yourself  

[Ultrastu]

Air arms s410 /s400 / s510 /s200 

Bsa  - ultra mmc model ,scorpion  (not se ) 

Falcons .earlier daystates .earlier fx guns .

Other people can add to the list .

But to be honest id find either a bsa or air arms .

 

And i wouldnt go for co2 for serious  hunting .rats and ferels in close would be fine tho .

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, Ultrastu said:

Air arms s410 /s400 / s510 /s200 

Bsa  - ultra mmc model ,scorpion  (not se ) 

Falcons .earlier daystates .earlier fx guns .

Other people can add to the list .

But to be honest id find either a bsa or air arms .

 

And i wouldnt go for co2 for serious  hunting .rats and ferels in close would be fine tho .

not sure they can! i wouldn't bother looking outside this list!

if you were feeling flash with the cash, perhaps the hw100/110, but they're bigger cylinders now, i'm not convinced the 110's had the reliability issues solved and they're way more money than you'd need to spend for your needs anyway.

I'd stay clear of CO2. it's too susceptible to temperature changes and it's still requires a trip to the gunshop when you run out of cartridges. I'm also not so keen on the waste factor of having to just chuck the cylinders out. you can recycle them, but even so, i do wonder how many actually are!

[Walker570]

Plenty of good second hand PCPs in gun shops, particularly those specialising in air.  The list by Ultrastu just about covers what you need and I also agree with comments on CO2 they really are just 'play things' when any of those listed will do the job in spades.

[amateur]

10 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

I'd stay clear of CO2. it's too susceptible to temperature changes and it's still requires a trip to the gunshop when you run out of cartridges. I'm also not so keen on the waste factor of having to just chuck the cylinders out. you can recycle them, but even so, i do wonder how many actually are!

If you are shooting at home the temperature factor becomes irrelevant, the capsules are readily available, and usually cheaper, on eBay and the empties just go out and are recycled with the household tin cans.

There is a lot of irrational negativity about CO2 guns. They work, as long as you recognise their limitations and they are a cost-effective method of pest control. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by amateur

[chrisjpainter]

44 minutes ago, amateur said:

If you are shooting at home the temperature factor becomes irrelevant, the capsules are readily available, and usually cheaper, on eBay and the empties just go out and are recycled with the household tin cans.

There is a lot of irrational negativity about CO2 guns. They work, as long as you recognise their limitations and they are a cost-effective method of pest control. 

Er...only if you're shooting from in the house.

It's not irrational negativity. CO2 is highly susceptible to temperature change - both hot and cold. That makes it less reliable and less useful for shooters who need their weapon all year round. But an air PCP or a springer is entirely reliable all year round. You say it's cost effective, but I'm not convinced. If you're not using it a lot, get a springer. Full power, no temperature worries, no expense on capsules. And if you're using it a lot, you're going to be getting through a heck of a lot of those little capsules, it won't be long before you may as well have just bought a pump and got a PCP that isn't going to be problematic in very cold or very hot temps.

Full power Umarex 850 Magnum. 120 shots from the Umarex 88g, which cost £13. So by the time you've bought 5 of those, you've already spent more than a decent second hand pump. Even if you get the cheaper cylinders it doesn't take long before you're up to £40 - which is what I bought my gunpower pump for.

None of that's irrational; it's maths and physics. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by chrisjpainter

[Ultrastu]

Ive had co2 crosman rat catchers for years .and they are a great gun .for knocking about with and do have their place ..biggest issue i have with co2 is (aside from the massive temp fluctuations  /velocity change ) 

Is that in a lot of co2 guns the valving isnt very good .ie .when the co2 cannister is new and full .you get a high veloctiy from the pellet .and it then drops shot by shot .till its empty .. 

Which is ok for close range shooting where  velocity variation isnt too much of an issue .but the ability to put in say a 20 shot group at 30 yds is limited. 

[manthing]

If you get a pump use your weight not strength to pump it. 

My mate does this, I have a tank. Lol

[Walker570]

What's this with a pump for heavens sake.  I fill/top up mine in less than a minute flat with no great effort.  IF I go to my distant shooting grounds where I MIGHT shoot more than two clips I take the pump with me. Top it up while I'm waiting for the next tree rat.   As manthing says then use your upper body weight to put in those last two or three strokes. Easy Peasy.

I purchased my pump and second hand S200(mint) for less than £350.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Walker570

[Dekers]

Pumps are getting better all the time, but tanks are quicker and easier and put cleaner air in the reservoir.

Pumps tend to be cheaper than tanks and top ups, but I'd still go that route all day long.  My PCP are FAC, so lower shot count, but within my rifle selection a very low usage as well, but I still favour a tank!

[defender]

I'm fortunate that where I fill mine is under 2 miles away and only charge £2 to top up and I have a 3L and a 10L cylinder £35 every 5 years for cylinder retest.

I started off with a pump but soon got rid and got a cylinder, the 10L lasts ages

Another shop showed me a air rifle cylinder that had been only filled with a pump and it was very rusty

Edited August 19, 2018 by defender

[itchy trigger]

when I had my  AA 400 classic I bought a bottle even though I only topped up to 190bar, fit young lad next door bought a ultra and on the advice of the shop a pump, took him up to the air rifle club to have a play and he needed to top up his ultra, couldn't shoot for a short while after he was shaking that much, he ended up buying a bottle,

anyhow, sold the AA and the 12ltr bottle as they both were heavy and cumbersome, now use an Ultra mmc along with a 3ltr bottle, better in every way, you will not get a good used ultra mmc cheap, they were the ones made closest by Bowkett's design

[bigroomboy]

I've got an R10 mkII with a big buddy bottle. Pumping to 150 bar is not harder then inflating a bike tyre, 175 takes a little effort and is best done when its cool, getting to 200 - 230 really takes a bit of effort and technique. I can do it without too much bother but its much easier to just pump to around 175. Thats still around 100 shots so plenty, the smaller the bottle the less pumps it takes to get to higher pressure so not too hard but actually a bigger bottle is better and just dont worry about getting to max pressure, then its very easy.

[Ultrastu]

They type of pump you have makes a big difference .Ive only used fx pumps .and they are excellent and easy to use ..

I have a bottle and a pump and hardley use the bottle i find its easier and less faf getting the pump out for a top up .

[Mr.C]

Looking at the 1st post, if your just shooting 10 or so shots a day buy a 7ltr bottle it'll last ages. 

I shoot a comp most weekends and bought a tank in April. I haven't had to refill it yet. 

Here you go clever people, how long will a 7ltr tank last at 10 shots a day, every day. Cylinder capacity being 200cc, fill to 180psi and refill at 120? Gun is a 177.

Other parameters necessary to the calculation I will leave to the mathematicians.