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manthing

Closing a gun.

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    11 hours ago, guzzicat said:

    O/K A standing gun facing a covert awaiting driven birds  cannot see into the cover but pellets discharged at waist level would find their way through.

    Fine, but you have to move the gun skywards at some point. That means you will still have pointed it in the direction of the cover/beaters.

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    Yes but the chances of any mechanical failure causing barrels to fire or pins already sticking out will most likely happen as u close the gun not 10 seconds after the gun has been closed.

     

    Well said dave at kelton, i used to be the same on my shoot and warn folk about it, must say i think most folk do do it that way on game shoots, but not many clay shooters near me.

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    I am surprised no-one has mentioned holding the stock against your hip and then using the increased leverage of the barrels pointed at an angle at the ground  (in front) makes a gun, especially a new one that maybe stiff easy for a lady or child to close ? Once closed a careful glance around for any obvious danger will allow the gun to be raised ready for firing.

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    Without thinking, I open the gun, pointing the barrels to the ground, slip in the cartridges, and lift the stock to the barrels! I shoot a SBS and have done so for over 50 years....it's a habit born out of years of repetition!

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    9 hours ago, motty said:

    Fine, but you have to move the gun skywards at some point. That means you will still have pointed it in the direction of the cover/beaters.

    But the birds usually come from the direction of the beaters! So it is inevitable the gun will be deliberately discharged in their direction! You see the bird, you address the bird, you pull the trigger....this is as safe as it can be! Causing the gun to be pointed at the beaters whilst reloading is plain dangerous!

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    here's someone(shooting is his business) showing you how a gun should be closed!!, look at 2 mins 58 secs and 3mins 4 secs,

     

    Edited by andrewluke

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    Sadly u will probably see it becoming mre and more common as more clay shoots come into game shooting, or folk that have had lessons at clay grounds.

     

    I can understand the logic at a clay ground where everything is deemed safe infront of the stand. In that clip looked like the gun closed just as barrels were n line with the skyline.

    Not good. Althou possibly a visual illusion slightly when ur looking from the camera angle

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    2 hours ago, panoma1 said:

    But the birds usually come from the direction of the beaters! So it is inevitable the gun will be deliberately discharged in their direction! You see the bird, you address the bird, you pull the trigger....this is as safe as it can be! Causing the gun to be pointed at the beaters whilst reloading is plain dangerous!

    If the beaters are that close the whistle will have gone and the drive finished 

    please remember the beaters may start pushing the birds forward from a long way back and there’s a point where you stop flushing the birds ( sewling or flushing point)and usually walk out the side to a safe area 

    most keepers and shoots are hot on safety 

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    50 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

    If the beaters are that close the whistle will have gone and the drive finished 

    please remember the beaters may start pushing the birds forward from a long way back and there’s a point where you stop flushing the birds ( sewling or flushing point)and usually walk out the side to a safe area 

    most keepers and shoots are hot on safety 

    Apologies OF I was taking it for granted people who shoot driven Pheasant, Partridge etc, know that! However in my limited experience with driven Grouse shooting, it is usual that when the whistle goes, the guns confirm they have heard it, by shouting to the neighbouring butt and pointing their guns skyward! From here on in, the beaters beat right up to the butts.....but the guns can only take birds behind!

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    1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

    If the beaters are that close the whistle will have gone and the drive finished 

    please remember the beaters may start pushing the birds forward from a long way back and there’s a point where you stop flushing the birds ( sewling or flushing point)and usually walk out the side to a safe area 

    most keepers and shoots are hot on safety 

     

    It will depend on the shoot/drive but i know i have been on drives where birds wil be flushing only 50m or less from the gun line, granted ur usually above them on a banking.

    But 1 low ground shoot i've been on the cover crops are very near the guns at a similar level, if ur gun went off as u closed it there horzontally it really would be a case of luck wether or not u hit someone.

    And on 1 or 2 of their drives to lift the barrels up 'safely' u'd actually have to aim the barrels between the beaters as u reload the way the gun line and beating line are.

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    29 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

    I close my gun stock to barrel and raise the barrel up from behind, that way it never passes through the line. 

     

    i think you covered it all unless there's pickers up(or others) behind you??

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    4 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

    I close my gun stock to barrel and raise the barrel up from behind, that way it never passes through the line. 

     

    Exactly that. I find a safe direction behind and to my left (right handed) after I have fired, barrels pointing skyward, turn to my 'safe area' (avoiding pickers up) reload, close gun, point skywards and turn back to the front. It is second nature when you have practised it for so many years. The only 'downfall' is when pickers up go on a wander, during the drive ! 

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    In light of all the posts before, I suggest that the use of the semi auto makes it a safer option for reloading and 'closing'.

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    2 minutes ago, motty said:

    In light of all the posts before, I suggest that the use of the semi auto makes it a safer option for reloading and 'closing'.

    Brilliant answer, and very true!!

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    18 minutes ago, motty said:

    In light of all the posts before, I suggest that the use of the semi auto makes it a safer option for reloading and 'closing'.

    ?Beat me to it! I wanted to suggest this when it occurred to me at work this aft', but had an iffy signal! It never ceases to amaze me how some shooters insist on making things as difficult as possible for themselves at every opportunity, and whom want to berate others for not doing 'as I do'. 

    I've seen a lot of footage of game and clay shooting and done a lot of game and clay shooting, and I can say I don't know of anyone who closes their gun in the way some seem to claim game shooters have the monopoly on. Close and open your gun however it suits you; as long as it's safe no one can tell you it's the wrong way. 

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    Twice, whilst I have been Reffing at sporting comps, someone has flipped up the barrels to such an extent, that the top barrel cartridge has been flung out and they have not realised. On both occasions they hit the first target and then 'CLICK'. As per the rules, I have taken the closed gun from them and then slowly opened it in their view, the look on their faces when they see an empty chamber is laughable. Of course the second target is a 'loss'. I have also had an empty gun occur on a DTL comp., having moved from stand 5 to 1, the guy forgot to reload, upped with the gun and called for the target, again 'lost'.  It does brighten up a Refs day  !

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    6 hours ago, andrewluke said:

    i think you covered it all unless there's pickers up(or others) behind you??

    Yeah, good point. Avoiding them as well. 

     

    53 minutes ago, motty said:

    In light of all the posts before, I suggest that the use of the semi auto makes it a safer option for reloading and 'closing'.

    I would agree, or a pump action of course. 

    That said I enjoy using my side by side for driven days, not that I shoot many days through a year. 

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    1 hour ago, motty said:

    In light of all the posts before, I suggest that the use of the semi auto makes it a safer option for reloading and 'closing'.

     

    Be the only time a SA is safer than a normal break barrel on a game shooting day. Not a fan at all and banned them from my rough shoot, but that is an entirely different thread and i'm sure will be due its anual revival again.?

     

    Its not rocket science to close a gun in a safe manner but sadly sometimes u'd think it was on some shootsaalong with various other dodgy habits thare and more common, 1 or 2 sneaking in from clay grounds (having gun already in shoulder looking for birds or resting ur burrels on ur toes, not good with muddy boots on)

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    15 minutes ago, scotslad said:

     

    Be the only time a SA is safer than a normal break barrel on a game shooting day. Not a fan at all and banned them from my rough shoot, but that is an entirely different thread and i'm sure will be due its anual revival again.?

     

     

    A positive boon to the practise of double gunning! ?

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    At 3.00 in that video the chap appears to swing his newly-loaded gun up in direct line with the flag man. I'd try to avoid doing that.

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    On 24/08/2018 at 01:07, Dave at kelton said:

    How, in the field, can you close a gun barrels to stock without having the barrels at waste height

    I would have said that the barrels don't move that far. Another thing I'd suggest is that people who have been shooting a long time, especially people who started when young, acquire an almost instinctive awareness of where their gun is pointed, and they'll close the gun either way depending on the circumstances.

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