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Rewulf
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2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I wont question your medical insights into it, its all very informative.
But my point was, people talking about bans ect, seem to think that ends their responsibility, somehow fixes the problem ?
Most high st supermarkets have stopped selling so called energy drinks to u16s some time ago, not via law, but via choice.
Do you really believe extending the ban and making it law, will have much effect ?
What about over 18s, will we have to cap how many you can buy, in case they over do themselves, or sell them to minors ?
If this stuff is so harmful, why not ban it outright ?

Can we stop people from buying and enjoying the things they like ?
Will it stop childhood obesity if we get rid of all sugary drinks, then we move onto sweets ,cakes ?
It gets to the point where we think we are doing something positive, but in reality we are just sweeping the dust under the carpet.

You bring up valid points about changing peoples lifestyle, but I think the medical profession needs to make itself a bit louder when it comes to stuff like this.
Lobby the government to do more when it comes to advertising, tax the stuff to death, like they have done with cigarettes, and are about to do with alcohol.
The NHS is groaning under the weight of peoples lifestyle choices, literally !
 

Hi RW

Yes I understand your point of banning something does not always fix the problem, how much would a ban limit access to these products I cannot say.I would think that  over 16 would still buy them so a ban would not remove access of these products to all children. Capping the amount you could buy would never be enforcable as it is the same with paracetamol, the over the counter limit of 16 in a packet as you go into the next shop and buy another pack and you now have 32.

I see many individuals and parents of children from the ages of 10-20 who on the whole appear to make less healthy choices through lack of knowledge and education. I am all for giving information that may influence the person, parent or carer into making better informed choices in relation to their health and well being.  

Childhood obesity has increased and high sugar drinks have undoubtedly been a contributing factor in this along with fast food consumption and sedentary lifestyle. Just prior to the sugar tax increase one of the largest manufacturer of sugary drinks has stated that it had seen no decrease in sales despite reductions in sugar content  which shows consumer demand is still high. I personally do not think that the banning of all sugary drinks would stop the incidence of 100% of childhood obesity as it is a multifactoral epidemic that is comprised of several factors.

Certainly the consumption amount has an impact, for example quoffing 2 litres of full sugar coke a day equates to approx 50 sugar cubes per day, there are plenty of children living on full sugar fluids and drinking 1-2 liters a day as their sole hydration. Eating a cream slice or chocolate eclair equates to approx 7 sugar cubes. As with all things over consumption can result in health related issues. I have colleagues who work in the management of childhood obesity and  the numbers have increased year on year.

The following document is the most recent data for childhood obesity and as you can see children age range 4-18 years have higher consumption of free sugars than adults of age range over 18 yrs ( simple sugars added to foods by manufacturer or the consumer) 

https://files.digital.nhs.uk/publication/0/0/obes-phys-acti-diet-eng-2018-rep.pdf

All NHS and private practice bodies are compelled to document, store and produce  morbidity and morality data for Public health England.  Public health spending in England will be at approx 3 billion pound by 2020 on ill health prevention measures this amount of spending has actually decreased, this equates to approx 6% of the total spend budget. The current document moves towards a much more weighted prevention than a management model. The NHS spends around 3 billion  a year on research twinned with the other health data it collects this helps formulate wider health policy and trickles upwards to government to make changes to law at a political level. 

Tackling obesity  needs to encompass education much more to end user for promoting health allowing the individual the ability to make informed choices. Also compelling product producers to reduce levels substances which are proven to be harmful with over consumption. While some research demonstrates pivotal evidence there are always product producers lobbying government with their own counter research bias. Also how much do sales and advertising swell the government coffers. 

My local health area runs lots  weekly sessions for education around diet and lifestyle choices for all age groups but they are always clinic based and not always well publicized or  communicated to the wider community. Many years ago I was involved for a short time in health monitoring and advice initiative where we would go to local supermarkets and the high street and test yer cholesterol etc and give advice around health choices which were evidence based. These  face to face appeared to be well received by the wider community. Individuals were given a simple survey to complete to assess for measurable qualitative changes which did result in a measurable qualitative outcome. 

Yes the NHS is stretched, the poor old Girl!

atb

7diaw

 

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

Great post.

Always interesting to hear from those in the know.

Cheers Mungler

hope you keeping well

atb

7diaw

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Do you not also think it is part of a society that is "permissive" in the sense of; I am allowed this as I control my destiny?

We used to think that a can of pop was a great treat when I was a little lad, even when I was into my teens it was not an everyday item, however when we have cans of cola etc trying to re-invent themselves to remain relevant in a changing market place. The alcoholic drinks companies did it in the 90`s with "alcopops" to make them relevant in an age where pubs were irrelevant to YP who were turning away from them and towards the e culture. Soft drinks such as coke had to change and we saw cherry, zero, vanilla.... but it was the new and vibrant energy drinks with all different kinds of flavours, not just your usual fruits or colas, and even vitamins and other things to enhance the uptake of caffeine getting into the act. We are now at the stage where kids can buy them for 35p.

We are at a similar stage with caffeinated alcohol drinks as YP have been weaned on the weird and wonderful flavours and the buzz of caffeine drinks, now we have not just the old fogies drinks such a VRB and buckie, but now there are the likes of dragon soop! I also wonder if there is a sweet-spot of sugar, caffeine and alcohol that triggers something in a YP`s brain, much like when they first had sugar as an infant and a caffeine hit as a child and so on.

Final thought, a few posts have linked energy drinks and coffee, as they have a similar ratio of size and caffeine content, however next time you have one pour in 30-32gm of sugar and stir, a lot, because thats how much sugar these drinks have, and that way you can compare like for like.

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One of the Gastroenterologists my other half works with would ban energy and diet drinks outright (she has a particular hatred for diet Coke).

I tried Red Bull once (in my 20s) and loathed it. My son drinks mostly milk and water, with the occasional fizzy drink (usually Appletiser) at weekends. 

We measured out the amount of sugar in a can of coke the other day and he was gobsmacked. 

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2 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

One of the Gastroenterologists my other half works with would ban energy and diet drinks outright (she has a particular hatred for diet Coke).

I tried Red Bull once (in my 20s) and loathed it. My son drinks mostly milk and water, with the occasional fizzy drink (usually Appletiser) at weekends. 

We measured out the amount of sugar in a can of coke the other day and he was gobsmacked. 

What is the particular hatred of Diet Coke related to?

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1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

What is the particular hatred of Diet Coke related to?

I'm no expert but I believe it's related partly to the caffeine and also the sweeteners. Something about the drink preparing the body for the sugar/energy it thinks it's going to receive and then doesn't. 

A lot of obese people drink diet drinks, which end up making them more hungry then they binge eat. 

It's along those lines but as I say not my field. 

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Thank you 7 days for taking the time to explain, excellent points.
Henry also, very good.
I originally compared energy drinks to coffee, but was told that no one drinks 5 cups of coffee in a row, but I know plenty who do, with huge amounts of sugar !

This ban will come into force, but its a complete waste of time, the 'legal limit' for energy drinks is 150 mg of caffeine per litre.
All they will do is reduce it to 140mg to make it legal for even under 16 s to buy, who will just drink more.

Or even worse, find another, possibly more dangerous way to get their buzz.

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1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

What is the particular hatred of Diet Coke related to?

 

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

I'm no expert but I believe it's related partly to the caffeine and also the sweeteners. Something about the drink preparing the body for the sugar/energy it thinks it's going to receive and then doesn't. 

A lot of obese people drink diet drinks, which end up making them more hungry then they binge eat. 

It's along those lines but as I say not my field. 

Absolutely that, I watched a TV programme on it and they said that the body has been used to the taste of sugar it tastes the sweetner and adjusts the insulin levels accordingly, however the body doesn`t receive the sugar so the insulin levels spike and drop with no change in blood sugar. They think there may be a link to diabetes and there was also something to do with a change in gut bacteria but I can`t remeber much about that part.

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