TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 At last a little bit of sense, it has always amused me that David Beckham is apparently annoyed that he has not been knighted yet. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45377362 I'm sure there are many more celebrities that feel they should have been honoured. Whilst perfectly legal but entirely immoral, I do wish the Government and HMRC would close the legal loopholes to encourage everyone to pair their fair share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 they should pay we all have to why should they get away with it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 If there were perfectly legal ways to prevent the government taking large chunks of my hard earned money I’d definitely do it and couldn’t give a monkeys what anyone thought of it. Whether these celebrities money is hard earned is questionable but still tax avoidance has been a game that’s been played since taxes were invented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 If the evasion is legal then they are not in any way to blame. I am against the 'general' handing out of knighthoods to all and sundry just because they happen to be celebrities. There are probably a number amongst our forum chums who deserve one more than the likes of Beckham, although I do admire the way he has handled his life compared with other footballers and sportsmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Nice to hear a bit of common sense coming from a government department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Walker570 said: If the evasion is legal then they are not in any way to blame. I am against the 'general' handing out of knighthoods to all and sundry just because they happen to be celebrities. There are probably a number amongst our forum chums who deserve one more than the likes of Beckham, although I do admire the way he has handled his life compared with other footballers and sportsmen. Exactly, I'm sure there would be a Sir Ditchman for his tireless services to needy fat women but his "tax avoidance" on Lawnmower repairs has been spotted by HMRC. Edited September 1, 2018 by TriBsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 49 minutes ago, TriBsa said: Exactly, I'm sure there would be a Sir Ditchman for his tireless services to needy fat women but his "tax avoidance" on Lawnmower repairs has been spotted by HMRC. Poor Sarah, she takes some flack ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Tax avoidance is legal and there for anyone to take advantage of if your in a position too, tax evasion is the illegal variety. So being a celebrity and avoiding paying lots in tax and not breaking any laws can see you not being honored as its immoral is fine with me. You want a Knighthood you should be a goody two shoes and someone for others to look up to. Not a sodding favor giving businessman or Politico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, figgy said: Tax avoidance is legal and there for anyone to take advantage of if your in a position too, tax evasion is the illegal variety. So being a celebrity and avoiding paying lots in tax and not breaking any laws can see you not being honored as its immoral is fine with me. You want a Knighthood you should be a goody two shoes and someone for others to look up to. Not a sodding favor giving businessman or Politico. You want a Knighthood you should be a goody two shoes and someone for others to look up to. Not anyone, celebrity or otherwise just doing their job. It should be for those that go above and beyond, that make a real difference to others beyond that which they are paid to do. Very few would make my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Just find me a real celebrity please, just being able to kick a ball, look good or be a politico doesn't make one in my book. Doing a bit for charity doesn't up the ante either. Real celebrities save serve the people and save lives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 So Antony Blair is well stuffed then................ oh............and fat women are filed under "servicing and lubrication" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 Beckham, Linnaker, Southgate and others invested in a tax avoidance scheme that (I have no doubt) they believed to be legal at the time they invested; however, the scheme has subsequently been taken to court by HMRC and found to be illegal. There were always many voices doubting the legality and they were probably foolish to invest - and they will (I believe) have to repay any tax avoided. What they thought was legal avoidance has turned out to be illegal evasion. On 01/09/2018 at 07:10, TIGHTCHOKE said: I do wish the Government and HMRC would close the legal loopholes to encourage everyone to pair their fair share. This to me is what should happen - then there can be no doubts. Honours should be awarded to those who set a good example, or contribute greatly to the public good such as by putting in long hours for little reward etc. I think honours should also be given to those who are conspicuously successful -(e.g. in sports, art, business) again setting a good example. Where there are 'questionable areas' (such as potential transgressions between tax avoidance and tax evasion, dubious business deals (such as BHS sale for £1) etc) - the award of any honours should at least be 'put on hold' pending the longer term outcome. Honours should not be available for 'political favours'. My grandfather received a knighthood (from George VI) because he put a lot of time and effort (for little more than expenses repaid) in developing and setting up higher education establishments throughout the commonwealth. It involved him spending long periods away and travelling (mainly sea and rail travel in those days) for which he received a very modest salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 Till 1992 the queen paid no tax and, in fact, along with several Royals, has no legal obligation to pay a penny -strange that "her" Tax collectors never spotted that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: has no legal obligation to pay a penny -strange that "her" Tax collectors never spotted that? If she has no 'legal obligation' then surely there is nothing to 'spot'. Since the Queen and Royal Family costs about £0.65 per UK citizen per year ........ it isn't a big issue. I happen to think that most 'Royal Activities' are very good value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitbosher Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Till 1992 the queen paid no tax and, in fact, along with several Royals, has no legal obligation to pay a penny -strange that "her" Tax collectors never spotted that? They collect tax for her not from her Long Live the Queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalahari Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 In fact she now voluntarily pays tax which is wrong. A past government accepted the income from the Crown Estates in lieu of all tax. Tony and his cronies held onto that and blackmailed her into paying tax as well. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 Plenty of people would avoid paying any tax at all if they could, yet they like to shout and moan about others who do it. When it’s their money they seem to think the rules don’t apply to them. A social worker in my old team was a massive socialist, always slamming the torries and blaming them for everything. She was more than happy to tell me that she was down as a director of her husbands company though, despite never doing a days work there. She told me it allowed her to take dividends and money out and pay less taxes than if her husband drew them all himself. Funny how she thought everyone else should pay their fair share, except it was perfectly fine for her to do that. I imagine there are many more who do the same ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 (edited) When cash is being thrown at you from all angles, it becomes a lot easier to do a bit for charity. Reminds me of the bible parable , "Who gave the most, rich man or poor woman." I knew Sunday school would come in useful. Edited September 2, 2018 by redial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English Posted September 2, 2018 Report Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 01/09/2018 at 11:36, TriBsa said: Exactly, I'm sure there would be a Sir Ditchman for his tireless services to needy fat women but his "tax avoidance" on Lawnmower repairs has been spotted by HMRC. ROFLMAO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 14 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: Beckham, Linnaker, Southgate and others invested in a tax avoidance scheme that (I have no doubt) they believed to be legal at the time You have to wonder though how much these people actually know about their own affairs. Of course they sign off on their tax forms, but I don't mind betting that the actual 'investing' is done by a firm of clever accountants and is so opaque and complex as to be unintelligible to your average football pundit So it was very likely a case of believing the accountant rather than the scheme itself - which they probably never even read. But then again, I suppose the maxim 'don't sign anything you can't understand' kicks in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted September 3, 2018 Report Share Posted September 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, Retsdon said: You have to wonder though how much these people actually know about their own affairs. Of course they sign off on their tax forms, but I don't mind betting that the actual 'investing' is done by a firm of clever accountants and is so opaque and complex as to be unintelligible to your average football pundit So it was very likely a case of believing the accountant rather than the scheme itself - which they probably never even read. But then again, I suppose the maxim 'don't sign anything you can't understand' kicks in...... I'm sure that is so; I suppose it is a bit like a lottery winner ..... they are suddenly faced with the task of handling/managing a situation (huge riches) they have no experience or training to do. They are entirely reliant on 'advisers', but picking good advisers itself isn't easy. Not unnaturally, they have followed their friends ........ and all ended in the same boat. In my view it is a serious weakness in our system ....... where the distinction between avoidance (legal) and evasion (illegal) is so complex ....... and successive Chancellors have almost 'tempted' creative accountants to push at the boundaries with complex small print. I understand the 'rule book' for taxation is huge and incredibly complex. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/13/britain-tax-code-17000-pages-long-dog-whistle-very-rich https://www.accountancydaily.co/uk-tax-code-now-12-times-size-king-james-bible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeadWasp Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 Tax avoidance is entirely sensible and has nothing to do with morality. Ever bought duty free? That is tax avoidance. Got an ISA? That's tax avoidance. Got something to leave to the kids and 'managing' that? That's tax avoidance. Where are we on the morality-ometer now? A high net worth individual is probably paying more in tax after these schemes than most of us (put together) anyway. If we've got a gripe it should be with the system and HMRC. It's just plain wrong to conflate avoidance and evasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 2 hours ago, LeadWasp said: Tax avoidance is entirely sensible and has nothing to do with morality. Ever bought duty free? That is tax avoidance. Got an ISA? That's tax avoidance. Got something to leave to the kids and 'managing' that? That's tax avoidance. Where are we on the morality-ometer now? A high net worth individual is probably paying more in tax after these schemes than most of us (put together) anyway. If we've got a gripe it should be with the system and HMRC. It's just plain wrong to conflate avoidance and evasion. But tax avoidance isn't the actions of a selfless individual who has gone above and beyond, which is what this thread is about, I think someone who avoids paying a fair share of tax is rightly blocked from receiving honours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 On 01/09/2018 at 08:59, Walker570 said: If the evasion is legal then they are not in any way to blame. I am against the 'general' handing out of knighthoods to all and sundry just because they happen to be celebrities. There are probably a number amongst our forum chums who deserve one more than the likes of Beckham, although I do admire the way he has handled his life compared with other footballers and sportsmen. I totally agree with you, why give actors and pop stars knighthoods for only doing what they get paid for? 2 hours ago, LeadWasp said: Tax avoidance is entirely sensible and has nothing to do with morality. Ever bought duty free? That is tax avoidance. Got an ISA? That's tax avoidance. Got something to leave to the kids and 'managing' that? That's tax avoidance. Where are we on the morality-ometer now? A high net worth individual is probably paying more in tax after these schemes than most of us (put together) anyway. If we've got a gripe it should be with the system and HMRC. It's just plain wrong to conflate avoidance and evasion. I think the level of tax avoidance HMRC are talking about goes a bit further than duty free drinks and ISAs. More like having their total earnings paid into offshore shell companies and paying not a penny in tax. Lewis Hamilton style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 4, 2018 Report Share Posted September 4, 2018 On 02/09/2018 at 21:34, redial said: When cash is being thrown at you from all angles, it becomes a lot easier to do a bit for charity. Reminds me of the bible parable , "Who gave the most, rich man or poor woman." I knew Sunday school would come in useful. You left the rest out about the old poor lady giving her last few pennies and the rich man who gave pounds. I also heard it many times at Sunday school. Or was that drummed into all who attended(was coerced or forced to go) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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