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243 variation dsc


Rst1990
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I wonder if any of you guys could shed some light on my situation.

I put in a variation for 243 for deer and to cut a long story short my Feo was asking me for dsc or mentor and then he would approve the calibre as it’s not his decision as the people in the office ask for such on a deer calibre.

I already own a centrefire (223) so was took back by his answer as I’ve already been shooting deer muntjac but apparently that deer specie is recognised by the police as vermin and not deer!!

 

My question to you guys is do you think that this is fair?

I don’t have a lot of money and to do a dsc1 is out of my league at the minute and as for a mentor I don’t know anyone with such calibre.

 

I’ve put my application on hold for a week to decide on what path I wish to take.

 
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Your FEO is dead wrong. 

The Deer act specifically names Muntjac DEER and CWD. 

A person shall not be guilty of an offence under section 4(2)(a) above if he uses for the purpose of taking or killing or injuring any Chinese water deer (Hydropotes inermis) or muntjac deer (Muntiacus reevesi)—

(a)a rifle having a calibre of not less than .220 inches and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,356 joules (1000 foot pounds), and

(b)a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet weighing not less than 3.24 grammes (50 grains).]

Why would they be named in the deer act if they were vermin? 

Take this to your shooting organisation as your police force are taking the mickey. 

 

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1 hour ago, ClemFandango said:

Your FEO is dead wrong. 

The Deer act specifically names Muntjac DEER and CWD. 

A person shall not be guilty of an offence under section 4(2)(a) above if he uses for the purpose of taking or killing or injuring any Chinese water deer (Hydropotes inermis) or muntjac deer (Muntiacus reevesi)—

(a)a rifle having a calibre of not less than .220 inches and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,356 joules (1000 foot pounds), and

(b)a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet weighing not less than 3.24 grammes (50 grains).]

Why would they be named in the deer act if they were vermin? 

Take this to your shooting organisation as your police force are taking the mickey. 

 

100% Correct and sound advice

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That's because Essex are taking the wee wee when i had my interview for my fac for s1 shotgun 17hmr & 22lr, i said i would put in for a 243 also at a later date as have deer & alot of fox's  on one of my perms & the feo said Essex will not grant 243 for fox & i would need to do dsc1 or have a mentor. I said to her a safe shot is a safe shot no mater what the caliber & when i do put in for a 243 will be speaking to Basc as i meet all the firearms act requires me to do for that caliber rifle she didn't know what to say to that.,

Edited by fse10
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Thank you for all your comments they have helped me out.

think I will stick to my boots on this one and call the Feo and ask him to take my application off hold and continue the  process.

I know within myself that I’m a safe shot and if I wasn’t safe they would not have issued me with what I have got.

im a full member of basc and I have called them and they are saying exactly what you guys are ie dsc 1 is not needed or mentoring and muntjac is classed as deer. He also said get your refusal in writing (if you are to be refused) and we shall take it from there as with your membership you are entitled to legal aid if we need to start court process.

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1 hour ago, Rst1990 said:

Thank you for all your comments they have helped me out.

think I will stick to my boots on this one and call the Feo and ask him to take my application off hold and continue the  process.

I know within myself that I’m a safe shot and if I wasn’t safe they would not have issued me with what I have got.

im a full member of basc and I have called them and they are saying exactly what you guys are ie dsc 1 is not needed or mentoring and muntjac is classed as deer. He also said get your refusal in writing (if you are to be refused) and we shall take it from there as with your membership you are entitled to legal aid if we need to start court process.

Nice. 

I hope you get the right result without too much fuss.  

 

Maybe Essex licensing branch should do DSC1, they obviously need the education. 

Edited by ClemFandango
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To ask for your refusal ( if it happens ) in writing is very good advice from BASC. As well as mentioning to them that you have taken representational advice, it also shows your FEO and licensing authority that you are not prepared to be messed about ( you could mention the deer act also ) for their entertainment. Good for you. 

Let us know how you get on. 

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Many moons ago I had an argument with a Home Office 'Expert' on a similar basis. At the time I was a serving police officer, tactical firearms and sniper with the force which he did not know. He had no practical knowledge whatsoever. It seems they are still of the same ilk in some forces.  Get full written replies as said and don't back down.  They are wrong in all respects.

I had the pleasure of shooting one day with a fine gentleman in his 80s, sharp as a razor and a crack shot. I asked what he did, was he retired etc., and he turned out to be the owner of the local private coach company. He said some clip board wizard had visited his offices and made an assesment that he didn't have the up to date paperwork to drive coaches and he would have to take a course and pass a test. He had been driving coaches, accident free since he was 17yrs old. He 'gently' told the clip board wizard where to stick his course and test and no longer drives his own coaches.  These numpties do not only reside in the Home Office and Upper Floors of police HQs.

It is imperative that BASC follows up these ridiculous actions.

Edited by Walker570
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2 hours ago, Good shot? said:

'Home Office guidlines' are just that, guidelines, is what I was told when I questioned a decision by my area firearms agency. Not Deer related but similar.

Well it is true that the home office guidelines are guideline and not law from what I have been told it is like your boss setting out guidelines for  your job, your boss expects you to stick to then not change or ignore  then as and when you feel like it.

Other wise what is the point of having them.

Edited by bluesj
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I was granted my 243 for deer and fox without a dsc but the police wanted me to have a mentor. The game keeper put his hand up for that one and that was that . The mentor thing is basically to shift the blame away from the police if anything g should go wrong . 

If you can try and find an experienced bloke that will be willing to vouch for you.

 

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On 07/09/2018 at 21:26, ShootingEgg said:

Firearms of avs said to have centre fire I had to do it and ivythorn shooting does the course, so do braces of Bristol. 

My apologies, I'd forgotten I'd asked the question! There is no requirement to do DSC to obtain a centre fire, but as Dekers has just said, regions make it up as they go along. 

 

1 hour ago, Dekers said:

As usual, regions making it up as they go along, but they can make life difficult, talk to BASC etc, whoever you are with! :good:

 

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4 hours ago, Scully said:

My apologies, I'd forgotten I'd asked the question! There is no requirement to do DSC to obtain a centre fire, but as Dekers has just said, regions make it up as they go along. 

 

 

I dont disagree with you, to be honest and I know bad, but at the time I just did the course, it was easier than the hassle of kicking off at them and getting basc involved 

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