magman Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Glad you enjoyed it mate wasn't bad for the first decoying sessoin of the season . But we only ever count the birds in the bag.(as the saying goes " a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush") a lost bird is a missed bird and the art of shooting blown in our eyes is to only shoot birds over the "patch" which can be picked easily or retreived by the dog. just think how many of those "86" were just wounded not getting into an argument over this but if the farmer saw us not shooting birds because we thought if we shot that one we would not be able to find it i would get kicked of the permission ,also dont do dogs on crops until its been harvested as a dog can do a fair amount of damadge also. plus not to good for the dog in imho Totally agree with your sentiments. CROP PROTECTION is the name of the game. Don't listen to the negativeees, non-shooters or armchair experts. There is always some one out there that will try and knock you down or nit-pick your post. ??? ??? ??? ******** to 'em all I say. Get out there and do a job well done. Dave K Just to confirm Dave K, i am not a negativeee?, non-shooter or armchair expert i support the shooting community no matter what form we come in. BUT WE have a responsibility to safeguard our future of shooting/hunting for us and those that come after, by acting in a proper manner in the eyes of both shooters, and more importantly, those against shooting. "******** to 'em all I say.", is hardly a positive response that paints a good picture or defense for shooting to those against hunting/shooting. i did actually congratulate the lads for dooing a grand job for the farmer, BUT, i personally do not agree with shooting birds that cannot be retrieved What is your stance, Dave K, seeing your such an expert, on the DUMPING shot birds? who's dumped shot birds not us mate and dave k would not seem,s as most of your posts on here are after you have had a good day and not much inbetween seem,s like your a glory hunter to me never seen you give advice to a newbie ive had many red letter days and to see the face off someone that hasn't have one is priceless to me thats better than having one yourself as for mentioning dumped shot birds nobody in this thread has dumped shot birds you ***** sorry but i have never dumped shot birds Edited July 9, 2007 by henry d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oly Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I think we need to calm down a touch fellas. Let's not get into a slanging match. I'm sure, from talking to Magman and Tullyuk extensively on here, that the guys didn't "dump" the birds. They simply assessed the difficulty of retrieving them and the damage they would cause in doing so and concluded it wasn't worth it - we all have lost birds...it is not preffered but it happens. I know where your coming from Dave K but I'm sure most on here wouldn't approve of dumping birds and doubt that many acutally do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Cheers OLY - Anybody want some pigeon pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 something was 'dumped' in the field though Magman - just ask Jason what he used to wipe his ***** with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Couple of points. Well done to both sets on both sides of the argument, more pigeons shot = good do. That's what we all do. TomsDad: 1) you admitted you leave birds you couldn't pick if you shot them 2) you think leaving birds in standing crop is the same as dumping birds in the hedge I have to say I am surprised, you and your lad look like you have a cracking time and until now I was only full of admiration for your shooting escapades. Now I am afraid I think differently. I don't see what these criticisms achieved apart from starting an argument. I hope your farmer finds out about point 1, lets see how he'd feel about that. Can I ask you what you do for birds you shoot over the patch but fall into the standing crop around the laid areas, much as you showed in your video post recently in sporting videos? I hope you don't go trampling over the crops. Additonally, although I am not religious chap I think the following sums it up well :- "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I do hope you've never left a shot bird in a hedge, or anywhere else it fell and I hope you count them all in and out, leaving one is as bad as leaving a load - when you come out and say things like that people are entitled to assume you are perfect and never leave one unpicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Couple of points. Well done to both sets on both sides of the argument, more pigeons shot = good do. That's what we all do. TomsDad: 1) you admitted you leave birds you couldn't pick if you shot them 2) you think leaving birds in standing crop is the same as dumping birds in the hedge I have to say I am surprised, you and your lad look like you have a cracking time and until now I was only full of admiration for your shooting escapades. Now I am afraid I think differently. I don't see what these criticisms achieved apart from starting an argument. I hope your farmer finds out about point 1, lets see how he'd feel about that. Can I ask you what you do for birds you shoot over the patch but fall into the standing crop around the laid areas, much as you showed in your video post recently in sporting videos? I hope you don't go trampling over the crops. Additonally, although I am not religious chap I think the following sums it up well :- "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I do hope you've never left a shot bird in a hedge, or anywhere else it fell and I hope you count them all in and out, leaving one is as bad as leaving a load - when you come out and say things like that people are entitled to assume you are perfect and never leave one unpicked. pinn your a star mate could not put it better myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM'S DAD Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 who's dumped shot birds not us mate and dave k would not seem,s as most of your posts on here are after you have had a good day and not much inbetween seem,s like your a glory hunter to me never seen you give advice to a newbie ive had many red letter days and to see the face off someone that hasn't have one is priceless to me thats better than having one yourself as for mentioning dumped shot birds nobody in this thread has dumped shot birds you ***** sorry but i have never dumped shot birds I didn't imply you were actualy dumping birds if you could be bothered to read my post correctly All i said was that i dont agree with shooting birds that cannot be retrieved or ensured are dispatched properly Can you honestly tell me that of the so say 86 pigeons that were not retreived, how many were left injured and were not humanly dispatched I have utter respect for all quarry, (and most fellow shooters), can you say the same after a response like that As for accusing me of being a glory hunter, YES i do shoot quite a lot of woodpigeons thoughout the year, AND YES i post pictures so other shooters/hunters can share the good times we sometimes all have whilst hunting/ shooting. I thought thats what this website was about, Sharing knowledge, experiences and opinions. As for your personel comments towards me, PLEASE, you do not know me so please do not comment in your immature, vile manner towards me. If you also bothered to read my posts, as i have yours, you will plainly see that i have on several occasions oferred what advice/knowledge to other shooters when i have thought that it may be of interest, ( another unfounded personal allegation from you) We all have differing opinions at times, We are human after all. But my opinion is only that, My opinion, and was not a personal attack on how you go about your shooting. but that gives you no reason to verbally attack my integrity. ITS A SAD OLD WORLD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Cheers for the support guys - i thought we were doing the right thing by not ruining crops, But you cant please everybody (especially the so called profesional pigeon shooter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I was out the other day for a couple of hours, couldn't manage anything like the ton but I dropped 29 for 35 odd shots and I was over the moon. I only picked 9 and the farmer came past and had 6 off me so I only had 3 myself. When I mentioned that I could only pick some for fear of flattening all the crop he just smiled and said "good lad". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 leaving "86" pigeons in the field, is as bad, imho, as dumping shot birds in a hedge I didn't imply you were actualy dumping birds if you could be bothered to read my post correctly pretty clear what you did mean though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM'S DAD Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Couple of points. Well done to both sets on both sides of the argument, more pigeons shot = good do. That's what we all do. TomsDad: 1) you admitted you leave birds you couldn't pick if you shot them 2) you think leaving birds in standing crop is the same as dumping birds in the hedge I have to say I am surprised, you and your lad look like you have a cracking time and until now I was only full of admiration for your shooting escapades. Now I am afraid I think differently. I don't see what these criticisms achieved apart from starting an argument. I hope your farmer finds out about point 1, lets see how he'd feel about that. Can I ask you what you do for birds you shoot over the patch but fall into the standing crop around the laid areas, much as you showed in your video post recently in sporting videos? I hope you don't go trampling over the crops. Additonally, although I am not religious chap I think the following sums it up well :- "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I do hope you've never left a shot bird in a hedge, or anywhere else it fell and I hope you count them all in and out, leaving one is as bad as leaving a load - when you come out and say things like that people are entitled to assume you are perfect and never leave one unpicked. I agree with a lot of what you say ,Pin. Firstly as i said, we do try to drop birds where they can be retreived, and have a very good springer in Teal to retreive the birds downed in the standing. We always clear with owner/farmer the dog is welcome on such crops befor shooting, the only time this is not advisable IMO is on swathed rape. Yes, as i think All pigeon shooters walk in the crop to an absolute minimum, to set up magnets, decoys Etc.......else we couldn't shoot standing crops at all! As it states in the pictures of our Saturdays shooting, we did "lose" around 10 dead birds. We acheived this by shooting by selection. Nobody will ever shoot standing crops without losing birds, FACT, but it is our responsibility as shooters to ensure this is kept to a minimum. I MY OPINION, i think 86 lost birds is not shooting responsibly and is not a great advert for shooting in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I acknowledge a lot of what you say in your reply, I will pick one point though. You feel that not picking birds is a bad advert for shooting and that is your opinion and I respect it where is pertains to runners. I think not shooting pest species in accordance with the general license but treating it as "sport" isn't a great advert for shooting. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 When I have shot over laid crops the object is crop protection. If the farmer parks up and sees me not shooting birds because I wont be able to pick them thats my permission gone. A fact of shooting over any laid crop is birds will be lost, simple as. Its not rocket science to work out walking up and down tram lines to set up, pick up and pack up is ok, causing more damage to the crop looking to make a good photo aint. I would rather do the job the farmer asks of me than select shots where a big bag photo gets the kudos but loses my permission to protect crops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 getting to be a good debate this Farmers want you there to protect the crops not just to enjoy your sport, so shooting as many of them as you can is what you are there for - remember under the terms of the general license, you can only shoot them if they are causing damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciltalgarth Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 WELL DONE GOOD BAG Shame i couldn't join you but i had my birds delivered and I'm well chuffed with them. Well done once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Me and a friend picked up 169 on saturday and we "lost" approx 10 - 15, we spent a fair amount of time trying to pick any shot birds both on foot and with the dog. We never did any noticable damage to the crop. Swathed rape is a different thing altogether, but even on swathed rape it is possible if you know what you are doing On saturday we tried to shoot only the birds that would be easy to pick but unfortunately pigeons don't always play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM'S DAD Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I acknowledge a lot of what you say in your reply, I will pick one point though. You feel that not picking birds is a bad advert for shooting and that is your opinion and I respect it where is pertains to runners. I think not shooting pest species in accordance with the general license but treating it as "sport" isn't a great advert for shooting. My opinion. Pin, we all shoot woodpigeon under the general licence and it would be a fool, (and illegal), for any shooter to say otherwise. To carry out crop protection/ pest control, i'm just saying you don't have to shoot every pigeon that comes into the range of a shotgun, knowing that the bird will not be "picked", to be able to protect that particular crop. Pigeon shooting is NOT all about the bag total, although we all love Red Letter Days If a anti went to a feild after a pigeon shooter had shot it and collected 20, 30, 40 woodpigeons, do you not think a great deal of VERY BAD publicity could easily be created? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 If a anti went to a feild after a pigeon shooter had shot it and collected 20, 30, 40 woodpigeons, do you not think a great deal of VERY BAD publicity could easily be created? Absolutely, just like if said anti picked the 10+ you left. It will happen, it's part of crop protection. There is no right answer, and we all do within the grounds of our permissions and what have you. We are all meant to be on the same side, things are different for different land owners. End of the day nothing that gets said on here will change what you TomsDad or Tally do on your own permissions. We learned something about what others do elsewhre in the country and had a public argument which I have not helped by getting involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 To carry out crop protection/ pest control, i'm just saying you don't have to shoot every pigeon that comes into the range of a shotgun, knowing that the bird will not be "picked", to be able to protect that particular crop. if your farmer seen this would he be happy each to there own no hard feelings mate and the last reply from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM'S DAD Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 If a anti went to a feild after a pigeon shooter had shot it and collected 20, 30, 40 woodpigeons, do you not think a great deal of VERY BAD publicity could easily be created? Absolutely, just like if said anti picked the 10+ you left. It will happen, it's part of crop protection. There is no right answer, and we all do within the grounds of our permissions and what have you. We are all meant to be on the same side, things are different for different land owners. End of the day nothing that gets said on here will change what you TomsDad or Tally do on your own permissions. We learned something about what others do elsewhre in the country and had a public argument which I have not helped by getting involved my intention was not to cause an arguement or be personal, i would like to look at it has an informative debate But do you not agree,Pin, that we as shooters have a resposibility to show restraint when nessesary, and not just be looked upon as "Mass Murderers" who shoot any woodpgeon that comes into range. It has a better perspective from the outside world if we can show that we protect the crops, but also ensure we can collect the quarry as best we can and turn that quarry into something productive, i.e food. My Granfer, R.I.P., always taught me, that if you are not going to do something with the animals/birds you shoot, then leave them in peace. (except foxes, rats etc..... ) Showing respect for your quarry is utmost i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topgunners Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 If a anti went to a feild after a pigeon shooter had shot it and collected 20, 30, 40 woodpigeons, do you not think a great deal of VERY BAD publicity could easily be created? Absolutely, just like if said anti picked the 10+ you left. It will happen, it's part of crop protection. There is no right answer, and we all do within the grounds of our permissions and what have you. We are all meant to be on the same side, things are different for different land owners. End of the day nothing that gets said on here will change what you TomsDad or Tally do on your own permissions. We learned something about what others do elsewhre in the country and had a public argument which I have not helped by getting involved Don't apologise pin. I won't As for the said anti doing his bit, what I and more especially the farmer would want to know is what is he/she doing TRESPASSING on his land, and more than likely doing more damage to the crop not being an experienced shooter than the shooter who saw fit not to pick up every bird. I just hope they never turn up whilst I am still there. and I still stand by my original statement that there have been numerous Posts over the years that have had the "shine" took off them by some tactless or nit - picky comment that "gets my goat" I am pretty sure that ALL my farmer's would rather have a few dead birds in their crop than have 200,300,400 LIVE pigeons eating their crop. Dave K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 I know you are just commenting, so for the record I will comment I do use all that I shoot within reason. Yes we need to be responsible and well done for being so, but I don't see what the others did as irresponsible or "bad" for shooting. Difference of opinion which is fine, would be boring if we all thought the same way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 As far as I'm concerned, and I will stand up and be counted too- I will take any woodie or crow that comes with-in range regardless if it can be picked up or not. Don't matter to me if I pillow case them at 15 yards, drop them at 40 or even sitting in the pattern. The 86 so called lost birds will probably be gone in no time- and leave a day or so and go back with your rifle and you might get a crack at old charlie. starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AP1shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The Guys involved where there on the day to do a job for that Farmer, and the Job was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 This debate has been going for 4 pages - must be time for some thread deleting and an early Closure by the MODS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.