Ross Kemp with armed police

[PPP]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

Sorry I don’t understand your reply? 

Is it re the guns coming in or being a top company? I haven’t a clue how much the top companies are turning over tbh but just quoting the gun figures off the show. 

Hey, it’s was your comment about tip earning companies in the country, 25 M per year won’t be anywhere near the top

[Lloyd90]

15 minutes ago, PPP said:

Hey, it’s was your comment about tip earning companies in the country, 25 M per year won’t be anywhere near the top

I get ya. 

Its stillla tidy amount to earn though, £25m a year not to be sniffed at. 

More worrying that apparently 50-100 handguns per week are coming in. That’s just from one gang or Crew. How many more are bringing them in?

[Lloyd90]

15 minutes ago, PPP said:

Hey, it’s was your comment about tip earning companies in the country, 25 M per year won’t be anywhere near the top

I get ya. 

Its stillla tidy amount to earn though, £25m a year not to be sniffed at. 

More worrying that apparently 50-100 handguns per week are coming in. That’s just from one gang or Crew. How many more are bringing them in?

[Medic1281]

3 hours ago, ordnance said:

Quote

 

All police put themselves in harms way, for me it takes more bravery to police unarmed. I asked the question in my last post, how many armed officers have being murdered on duty compared with unarmed officers. Bellow one example of unarmed officers being shot dead, there are others. i can not find any examples of armed officers being shot dead in mainland UK.

I only know of one armed officer shot and killed on duty. That was in Shrewsbury over 10 years ago. 

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/2017/05/03/force-remembers-murdered-colleague/

Edited September 7, 2018 by Medic1281

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Medic1281 said:

I only know of one armed officer shot and killed on duty. That was in Shrewsbury over 10 years ago. 

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/2017/05/03/force-remembers-murdered-colleague/

Yeah ive heard of a couple of cases, stretching back a long way although I can't remember the specifics now, my point is however, when our justice system doesn't work, the police are always one of the first to be blamed and while they're obviously only human, I think they're blamed for alot of things beyond their control.

[PPP]

29 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I get ya. 

Its stillla tidy amount to earn though, £25m a year not to be sniffed at. 

More worrying that apparently 50-100 handguns per week are coming in. That’s just from one gang or Crew. How many more are bringing them in?

Indeed! Scary how many are probably coming in, amazing really there are more problems 

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 my point is however, when our justice system doesn't work, the police are always one of the first to be blamed and while they're obviously only human, I think they're blamed for alot of things beyond their control.

Goes with the territory I’m afraid; same with any occupation, though admittedly the consequences may vary greatly.

[PPP]

31 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I get ya. 

Its stillla tidy amount to earn though, £25m a year not to be sniffed at. 

More worrying that apparently 50-100 handguns per week are coming in. That’s just from one gang or Crew. How many more are bringing them in?

Indeed! Scary how many are probably coming in, amazing really there are more problems 

[ordnance]

24 minutes ago, Medic1281 said:

I only know of one armed officer shot and killed on duty. That was in Shrewsbury over 10 years ago. 

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/2017/05/03/force-remembers-murdered-colleague/

That sort of makes my point, one armed officer and a lot more unarmed officers. Its simple for me if you don't want the responsibility's of being a armed officer don't volunteer. If you do decide to volunteer knowing all the possible consequences that are spelled out to you during training if you mistakenly shoot someone etc.  Excepting all that don't whinge about t if you are investigated after a shooting you were involved in. 

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

That sort of makes my point, one armed officer and a lot more unarmed officers. Its simple for me if you don't want the responsibility's of being a armed officer don't volunteer. If you do decide to volunteer knowing all the possible consequences that are spelled out to you during training if you mistakenly shoot someone etc.  Excepting all that don't whinge about t if you are investigated after a shooting you were involved in. 

Your obviously entitled to your opinion and I won't try and change it. I will say it is my opinion it is very easy for us all to be experts and judge when it's not is putting ourselves in the line of fire (I refer to all police armed or otherwise), I'm sure many on here who criticise would be like a rabbit in the headlights if they attempted to deal with some of the situations our police force deal with on a daily basis.

[ordnance]

13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Your obviously entitled to your opinion and I won't try and change it. I will say it is my opinion it is very easy for us all to be experts and judge when it's not is putting ourselves in the line of fire (I refer to all police armed or otherwise), I'm sure many on here who criticise would be like a rabbit in the headlights if they attempted to deal with some of the situations our police force deal with on a daily basis.

I agree all police do a good job and can end up in difficult situations were quick decisions have to be made, but that doesn't change my view they have to be held responsible of their actions armed or not just like everyone else. It would be a dangerous move if the police were somehow treated differently regarding the laws that we all have to abide by, if they get it wrong taking into account the circumstances, just like would be done with a civilian then they should be disciplined or charged with wherever offence they were suspected of committing. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by ordnance

[Guest stevo]

36 minutes ago, ordnance said:

I agree all police do a good job and can end up in difficult situations were quick decisions have to be made, but that doesn't change my view they have to be held responsible of their actions armed or not just like everyone else. It would be a dangerous move if the police were somehow treated differently regarding the laws that we all have to abide by, if they get it wrong taking into account the circumstances, just like would be done with a civilian then they should be disciplined or charged with wherever offence they were suspected of committing. 

☝️This .

[12gauge82]

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

I agree all police do a good job and can end up in difficult situations were quick decisions have to be made, but that doesn't change my view they have to be held responsible of their actions armed or not just like everyone else. It would be a dangerous move if the police were somehow treated differently regarding the laws that we all have to abide by, if they get it wrong taking into account the circumstances, just like would be done with a civilian then they should be disciplined or charged with wherever offence they were suspected of committing. 

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about armed police, I don't remember saying armed police should not be bound by the law the same as civilians, the point I made was that the police get blamed for alot of things far outside their control and I feel it is sometimes unfair, particularly considering the very dangerous jobs they are often expected to do.

[Bluebarrels]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

 particularly considering the very dangerous jobs they are often expected to do.

They are highly trained professionals ,practice scenario after scenario and work within rules of engagement,if in doubt they should not engage the target! Yes there will be times they get it wrong,but will be investigated and dealt with accordingly,just because they are police and carry firearms does not mean they are above the law they are paid to uphold.They know the risks when they sign on the dotted line.Dangerous job or not they know the score.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Bluebarrels

[Bluebarrels]

TBH I feel sorry for the armed police,no where near enough funding to do the job expected of them.Normal Saturday night in Hampshire 2 or 3 arv's to cover a massive county.

And we wonder why criminals have the upper hand,running drugs and firearms etc etc.Time the Government pulled there ******* finger out,and looked after the people they expect to keep the country safe.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Bluebarrels

[ordnance]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about armed police, I don't remember saying armed police should not be bound by the law the same as civilians, the point I made was that the police get blamed for alot of things far outside their control and I feel it is sometimes unfair, particularly considering the very dangerous jobs they are often expected to do.

I don't have a bee in my bonnet about armed armed police, i think all police should be armed.   They do a good job that can be dangerous, but policing doesn't make the top 10 of dangerous jobs in the UK unless you were policing in Northern Ireland.   What things do you think they get blamed for and are treated unfairly for. 

 

[andrewluke]

the only time i see our police force doing anything is when i'm watching Brit Cops on Pick TV,they are getting like the RSPCA,only taking action when there's cameras around!

[panoma1]

Police officers are human they are individuals with all the character traits, good and bad, that human beings possess, some work hard, some are idle, some good, some bad, some honest, some corrupt!.....you can't generalise.........good or bad as a gang/force/group or whatever you want to call them, they are paid to uphold the governments laws, sometimes in difficult circumstances!

But through incompetent leadership, lack of real accountability, chronic shortages of personnel, political correctness, health and safety, forced retirement of experienced thief catchers, the judiciary seen to be soft on criminals....some individuals desire to uphold the law has been frustrated and eroded to such an extent that an increasing number of officers just go through the motions, avoiding work and "treading water" waiting for retirement and their pensions!

That is why 90% of burglaries remain unsolved, shooters wait months for grant and renewal of certificates, drug, firearm, knife crime are increasing exponentially in our towns and cities............anti shooting/hunting terrorist/criminals go unchallenged, because the police can't/couldn't be ***** to enforce the law, and now it may be too late?.......Law and order is breaking down because the criminals are confident they will not be caught, and if by bad luck or chance, they are caught, they will likely get a suspended sentence, "community service" order or a cushy time in clink, and be out after serving just half of their sentence!....happy days!

That is why the police pick on easy targets like motoring offences, law abiding gun owners, distort the figures for reported gun "incidents" withhold evidence which may prove an accused persons innocence, plant evidence to shore up a weak case......statistics look good on paper!............ And help convince the government and general public they are doing something!

That is why the government and the police do not want guns in the hands of the public....they quite rightly fear civil disorder and vigilanteism with honest but desperate, previously law abiding people protecting themselves, their family and their property, by taking the law into their own hands! 

Orwellian?.............Maybe?

 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

I don't have a bee in my bonnet about armed armed police, i think all police should be armed.   They do a good job that can be dangerous, but policing doesn't make the top 10 of dangerous jobs in the UK unless you were policing in Northern Ireland.   What things do you think they get blamed for and are treated unfairly for. 

 

They are constantly blamed for not taking action, being soft on crime, not turning up when needed ect, those issues are almost always to do with government funding and policies, the police are that tied up in red tape these days it's a wonder they can move. I put myself in their shoes, they probably dislike criminals more than we do and would love to have them all locked up, but they have to operate within the law and if the politicians and public don't support them morally or with the funding and tools they need how are they supposed to win, it's no wonder criminals don't fear the long arm of the law any more and are going around acting with impunity. That's why I feel sorry for officers doing their best to do their job.

4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Police officers are human they are individuals with all the character traits, good and bad, that human beings possess, some work hard, some are idle, some good, some bad, some honest, some corrupt!.....you can't generalise.........good or bad as a gang/force/group or whatever you want to call them, they are paid to uphold the governments laws, sometimes in difficult circumstances!

But through incompetent leadership, lack of real accountability, chronic shortages of personnel, political correctness, health and safety, forced retirement of experienced thief catchers, the judiciary seen to be soft on criminals....some individuals desire to uphold the law has been frustrated and eroded to such an extent that an increasing number of officers just go through the motions, avoiding work and "treading water" waiting for retirement and their pensions!

That is why 90% of burglaries remain unsolved, shooters wait months for grant and renewal of certificates, drug, firearm, knife crime are increasing exponentially in our towns and cities............anti shooting/hunting terrorist/criminals go unchallenged, because the police can't/couldn't be ***** to enforce the law, and now it may be too late?.......Law and order is breaking down because the criminals are confident they will not be caught, and if by bad luck or chance, they are caught, they will likely get a suspended sentence, "community service" order or a cushy time in clink, and be out after serving just half of their sentence!....happy days!

That is why the police pick on easy targets like motoring offences, law abiding gun owners, distort the figures for reported gun "incidents" withhold evidence which may prove an accused persons innocence, plant evidence to shore up a weak case......statistics look good on paper!............ And help convince the government and general public they are doing something!

That is why the government and the police do not want guns in the hands of the public....they quite rightly fear civil disorder and vigilanteism with honest but desperate, previously law abiding people protecting themselves, their family and their property, by taking the law into their own hands! 

Orwellian?.............Maybe?

 

I think your spot on, again though the blame for all that lies with the politicians who make the law and to an extent the ACPO ranks but they are tied by the stats and hoops they must jump through, the average PC is probably more cheesed off with the mess law and order in this country is in than we are.

[Westley]

On 07/09/2018 at 07:08, JohnfromUK said:

I cannot see how televising these things helps.  The police have a job to do ...... and they should get on and do it - not be made into light entertainment.

There is a lot of public dissatisfaction with the police/justice system at present.  I believe part of the solution is to drop the 'show business' side and just get on with the policing job.

Rant over !

They were prevented from getting on with the 'Policing Job' a long time a go,  I'm afraid  !    Civil Lit.,  CCTV,  mobile phones with video camera's all contributed to that.  PLUS, everything having to be put to the CPS,  BEFORE charging someone with an offence. If they do not believe they WILL get a conviction, the job is thrown out.  This means that ONLY a watertight case goes to Court,  and thus,  usually ends up with a Guilty plea, reduced sentence, etc. The ONLY ones laughing are the Solicitors,   Oh, and the Criminals of course  !

Edited September 8, 2018 by Westley

[ordnance]

Quote

That's why I feel sorry for officers doing their best to do their job.

 

I don't they are payed to do a job that they chose, and are among the best equipped police forces worldwide all government payed agencies would like more money NHS etc. 

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, ordnance said:

 

I don't they are payed to do a job that they chose, and are among the best equipped police forces worldwide all government payed agencies would like more money NHS etc. 

That's where I don't really understand your point, anybody who is doing their best to do a good and important job in the face of adversity should be respected if not supported. I'm sure you'd call them if you needed them.

[andrewluke]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's where I don't really understand your point, anybody who is doing their best to do a good and important job in the face of adversity should be respected if not supported. I'm sure you'd call them if you needed them.

who else could you call?,quite often there are problems which i could sort myself but to stay on the right side of the law i phone police,there's no one else!,

[ordnance]

20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's where I don't really understand your point, anybody who is doing their best to do a good and important job in the face of adversity should be respected if not supported. I'm sure you'd call them if you needed them.

I agree they should be supported and i do support the police, they have like the rest of us have to make do with what money is allocated. I work in the private sector and would like more and better equipment but have to make do with what the company can afford.  

[Bluebarrels]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's where I don't really understand your point, anybody who is doing their best to do a good and important job in the face of adversity should be respected if not supported. I'm sure you'd call them if you needed them.

Your exactly right,respected and supported by the Government would be a good starting point,stop cutting funding at every opportunity and giving the money to other countries in foreign aid when it's clearly needed here.

Yes I know they have increased the armed police by 1500,but that's because it's got so bad due to cutting funding in the first place they had no choice.Damage already done me thinks.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Bluebarrels