12gauge82 Posted September 8, 2018 Report Share Posted September 8, 2018 3 hours ago, ordnance said: I agree they should be supported and i do support the police, they have like the rest of us have to make do with what money is allocated. I work in the private sector and would like more and better equipment but have to make do with what the company can afford. Agreed, but that's why people should support them rather than knock them for issues outside of their control all the time, they get alot of negative comments towards them that they really don't deserve, just look at any thread on here. 4 hours ago, andrewluke said: who else could you call?,quite often there are problems which i could sort myself but to stay on the right side of the law i phone police,there's no one else!, And just like you, the police must stay on the right side of the law, so when people slate them for criminals not respecting them anymore, or not coming to a crime because they're understaffed and are dealing with a higher priority incident,rather than slating the organisation, or worse, the individual officers, we should be slating the legislators who have caused the situations in the first place. I don't think alot of people realise just how limited the police are in the powers they have available to them at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 07/09/2018 at 18:27, ordnance said: i can not find any examples of armed officers being shot dead in mainland UK. Here's one. https://www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/the-pc-bill-bishop-murder I'm sure there may be others, but this was pretty close to home as both Bill Bishop and Mervyn Fairweather worked with my dad, and both were family friends. Indeed Bill's wife used to babysit me and my brothers when we were kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, poontang said: Here's one. https://www.pfoa.co.uk/articles/the-pc-bill-bishop-murder I'm sure there may be others, but this was pretty close to home as both Bill Bishop and Mervyn Fairweather worked with my dad, and both were family friends. Indeed Bill's wife used to babysit me and my brothers when we were kids. My point is a lot more unarmed officers are killed on duty than armed officers, for me it takes more courage to go on duty unarmed that armed. From the small number of armed officers killed and injured it would suggest its a very safe job, and not as dangerous as some would have us believe. PS Obviously one officer killed or injured is one to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Agreed, but that's why people should support them rather than knock them for issues outside of their control all the time, they get alot of negative comments towards them that they really don't deserve, just look at any thread on here. And just like you, the police must stay on the right side of the law, so when people slate them for criminals not respecting them anymore, or not coming to a crime because they're understaffed and are dealing with a higher priority incident,rather than slating the organisation, or worse, the individual officers, we should be slating the legislators who have caused the situations in the first place. I don't think alot of people realise just how limited the police are in the powers they have available to them at times. We take as we find, and personal experiences of growing up in a small market town where the local bobbies ( at one point ) were all very familiar people, it can tarnish ones respect and outlook. After fifty odd years of gypsy horse fairs I could write a small book of all the incidences of double standards, bullying, exceeding ones authority or using that authority for personal gain or favour, looking the other way, and it has to be said, blatant corruption I have personal experience of, including a firearms offence and a drink driving offence ( whilst disqualified ) which never made it to court through the intervention of freemasonry. Like I said, it tends to colour ones opinions and I have no doubt any thread I started on this topic would understandably, be short lived. However, if you want examples feel free to PM me. Edited September 9, 2018 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 15 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: Agreed, but that's why people should support them rather than knock them for issues outside of their control all the time, they get alot of negative comments towards them that they really don't deserve, just look at any thread on here. And just like you, the police must stay on the right side of the law, so when people slate them for criminals not respecting them anymore, or not coming to a crime because they're understaffed and are dealing with a higher priority incident,rather than slating the organisation, or worse, the individual officers, we should be slating the legislators who have caused the situations in the first place. I don't think alot of people realise just how limited the police are in the powers they have available to them at times. police should stay on the right side of the law but also need to uphold the laws! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 Quote Like I said, it tends to colour ones opinions and I have no doubt any thread I started on this topic would understandably, be short lived. However, if you want examples feel free to PM me . I have no doubt that years ago the police did things they would not do or get away with now, i think policing in the UK is now among the most professional in the world. That is partially down to more oversight and accountability. That's why i am all for accountability and when they get it wrong they are disciplined or prosecuted, this is needed for the public to have confidence in the police and support the police armed or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, ordnance said: . I have no doubt that years ago the police did things they would not do or get away with now, i think policing in the UK is now among the most professional in the world. That is partially down to more oversight and accountability. That's why i am all for accountability and when they get it wrong they are disciplined or prosecuted, this is needed for the public to have confidence in the police and support the police armed or not. In my experience it still goes on to a lesser or greater degree, and my nephew and several of his mates now also have first hand experience of it. Regarding fair week, the townspeople held a rather vocal meeting following this years fair, where the police inspector was left in no doubt as to the locals feelings regarding double standards and looking the other way. I dont care whether they're armed or not; they're there to provide a service, and if they fall short through deliberate intent or otherwise, then they deserve the criticism any other service would attract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Scully said: We take as we find, and personal experiences of growing up in a small market town where the local bobbies ( at one point ) were all very familiar people, it can tarnish ones respect and outlook. After fifty odd years of gypsy horse fairs I could write a small book of all the incidences of double standards, bullying, exceeding ones authority or using that authority for personal gain or favour, looking the other way, and it has to be said, blatant corruption I have personal experience of, including a firearms offence and a drink driving offence ( whilst disqualified ) which never made it to court through the intervention of freemasonry. Like I said, it tends to colour ones opinions and I have no doubt any thread I started on this topic would understandably, be short lived. However, if you want examples feel free to PM me. I know the police many years ago were very corrupt and of course you'll always find a couple of rotten apples in any job, but I believe the average PC is doing their best to do a tough job without the resources. Of course your experience will taint your view of them and understandably so. 2 hours ago, andrewluke said: police should stay on the right side of the law but also need to uphold the laws! That's the problem though, alot of issues these days, the police's hands are tied, I'm sure they'd love to sort the local criminals out, but without the resources or laws to allow them to they simply can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 hours ago, ordnance said: My point is a lot more unarmed officers are killed on duty than armed officers, for me it takes more courage to go on duty unarmed that armed. From the small number of armed officers killed and injured it would suggest its a very safe job, and not as dangerous as some would have us believe. PS Obviously one officer killed or injured is one to many. True policing is going to be a far safer job than say offshore fishing, or mining ever was on average, but I should imagine if your called to storm a building full of armed terrorists as they did in Paris a couple of years ago, the risk of that is up there with any other job in the world, anyone prepared to do that has my respect and it goes for unarmed bobbies on the beat to, look at some of the injurys sustained by that BTP cop who single handily tackled a load of knife weilding terrorists with his baton in London not so long back, nearly loosing his life in the process, if that's not bravery I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: True policing is going to be a far safer job than say offshore fishing, or mining ever was on average, but I should imagine if your called to storm a building full of armed terrorists as they did in Paris a couple of years ago, the risk of that is up there with any other job in the world, anyone prepared to do that has my respect and it goes for unarmed bobbies on the beat to, look at some of the injurys sustained by that BTP cop who single handily tackled a load of knife weilding terrorists with his baton in London not so long back, nearly loosing his life in the process, if that's not bravery I don't know what is. I dont think anyone is disputing acts of bravery, and this applies to our armed forces also, but they volunteered to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted September 9, 2018 Report Share Posted September 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, Scully said: I dont think anyone is disputing acts of bravery, and this applies to our armed forces also, but they volunteered to join. Agreed, but unlike our armed forces who also imo deserve the country's upmost respect, our often brave police officers seem to pick up alot of undeserved criticism for things they have no control over, I am of course generalising as there will always be rotten apples and when they are found they deserve every bit of criticism going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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