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quentyn

very quiet in here regarding the proposed changes to the offensive weapons bill

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    anyone had a look at the suggested changes ? 

     

    it seems its not just .50 cals and knives but also 

    1, banning <18's from using air guns unsupervised even on private land 

    2, banning reloading

    3, restricting the sale of shotgun cartridges 

    +a few more clauses 

    Just seems quiet here to be honest given the potential impact to us 

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    7 minutes ago, Jay1234 said:

    Just read this proposed bill (just the sections relating to is as shooters and it mentions nothing of banning under 18s from using air guns unsupervised, banning reloading or restricting cartridge sales, that's from the governments website, where did you read this? 

     

    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8349/CBP-8349.pdf

    Me neither I can’t find the points he’s referring too

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    5 minutes ago, Jay1234 said:

    To be honest, I don't believe a worse of anything from Twitter, plus it isn't written into the proposal so I can't see it affecting any of us 

    then how about a link to 

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0232/amend/offensive_rm_pbc_0830.15-21.html

    EG 


    Member’s explanatory statement 

    This new clause would amend the Firearms Act 1968 to prevent a person under the age of 18 from


    having an air gun on private land other than as part of a sporting club." page 17 you can find the rest yourself 

     

    I wonder, is this still not "affecting any of us" ? screen shot restricting sales of shot gun cartridges is on the same link on a different page 

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    The Bill is horrendous.  I wasted time writing  to my MP, pointing out that in the case cited in the formation of the Bill, multiple existing laws had been broken.  I also asked why a bill was being drawn up on a 'whatabout' basis, when the only definite result was the curtailment of law abiding persons rights.  I received a reply that regurgitated statements already made, and which did nothing to  engage with my concerns.  

    Come election time, I still expect to see a picture of of said MP standing in a field with a wax jacket on stating that he is concerned with the countryside and fieldsports.

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    3 hours ago, quentyn said:

    ...I wonder, is this still not "affecting any of us" ? screen shot restricting sales of shot gun cartridges is on the same link on a different page 

    It's not on that PDF, Quentyn. It is, however, in the 6th September update, on page 19:

    Amendments 6/9/18

    And yes, the explanatory note clearly states that FAC will be required to purchase, acquire or possess shotgun ammunition - which is absolutely ludicrous.

    Another email to my MP coming up...

    Is it cock-up or conspiracy? MPs without a clue, or an underhand way of bringing shotguns into S1?

     

    Then there is the effective ban on reloading - evidence-based? Pah!

    Edited by CaptainBeaky

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    So the proposed 1(c) says 'purchase or acquire, any ammunition to which this section applies'

    It doesn't revoke section 1 (4) which explicitly excludes cartridges with shot smaller than .36 (or size LG) from section 1. 

     

    Then proposed 1(5) says '

    Notwithstanding subsection 1(3) and 1 (3)(a) shotgun ammunition within

       

    the meaning of this Act is not exempt from an offence under 1(c).””

    So basically the inclusion makes no sense.

    Do they even check their own work?

    Edited by Lord v
    I can't read

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    Unless the 1(3) under the proposed 1(5) is a typo and is supposed to be 1(4). 

    That would at least make the change coherent. 

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    But shotgun ammunition with a shot size greater than 0.36" is already covered under section 1 😡?????

    And if it is a typo, then we are back to the ludicrous scenario of requiring FAC to feed a Section 2 gun.

    Edited by CaptainBeaky

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    2 hours ago, CaptainBeaky said:

    But shotgun ammunition with a shot size greater than 0.36" is already covered under section 1 😡?????

    And if it is a typo, then we are back to the ludicrous scenario of requiring FAC to feed a Section 2 gun.

    Exactly! 

    However, reading the act (and unless I am going mental- which is a possibility) I can't actually see anything that requires you to have a SGC to purchase cartridges.... 

    S2 in its entirety: 

    Requirement of certificate for possession of shot guns.

    (1)Subject to any exemption under this Act, it is an offence for a person to have in his possession, or to purchase or acquire, a shot gun without holding a certificate under this Act authorising him to possess shot guns.

    (2)It is an offence for a person to fail to comply with a condition subject to which a shot gun certificate is held by him.

    no mention of ammunition there!

    S3 regards RFDs.

    S48 (powers to demand production of SGC) do not mention shotgun ammunition:

    Production of certificates.

    (1)A constable may demand, from any person whom he believes to be in possession of a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of this Act applies, or of a shot gun, the production of his firearm certificate or, as the case may be, his shot gun certificate.

    I can see why they would want to include requiring an SGC to purchase cartridges in the firearms act (unless it's there already) even though it maybe required elsewhere (under guidance?)

    Itjust needs to go under section 2 rather than 1 or we end up in a ridiculous situation as you say 

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    Parliamentary Star    

    To move the following Clause—

       

             

    “Offensive Weapons and online videos

       

    (1)    

    It shall be an offence for a website to host online or distribute a video in which a

       

    person displays an offensive weapon in a threatening manner.

       

    (2)    

    No offence is committed under this section if—

       

    (a)    

    the website removes the video within 24 hours of the registered owner of

       

    the website being informed that the video includes a person displaying an

       

    offensive weapon in a threatening manner.

       

    (3)    

    In this section, “threatening manner” means that the person (“A”) uses the

       

    weapon in such a way that a reasonable person (“B”) who was exposed to the

       

    same threat would think that there was an immediate risk of physical harm.”

     

    That will be sky, bbc, Netflix etc in a bit of hot water then!

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    This is an absolute disaster! 

    “Possession of component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture"

    (1)    

    Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1988 is amended as follows.

    (2)    

    After subsection (5) insert—

    “(6A)    

    A person commits an offence if—

    (a)    the person has in his or her possession or under his or her control the component parts of ammunition; and

    (b)    the person intends to use such articles to manufacture the component parts into ammunition.
             

    (6B)    A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
             
    (a)    on summary conviction—
         
    (i)    in England and Wales to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months (or in relation to offences committed before Section 154(1) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 comes into force six months) or to a fine or both;

    (ii)    in Scotland to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both;

         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
    Edited by MartynGT4

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    That's just crazy. 

    How could you be in a situation where you can own whole rounds absolutely fine... But a few cases and bullets and you're nicked! 

    Also, what do you do with once fired brass and cases? Would mean going out shooting you would be totally law abiding... Coming back, potentially breaking the law, £200, do not pass go. 

    ***. What Muppets wrote this pile? 

     

     

     

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    1 minute ago, Lord v said:

    That's just crazy. 

    How could you be in a situation where you can own whole rounds absolutely fine... But a few cases and bullets and you're nicked! 

    Also, what do you do with once fired brass and cases? Would mean going out shooting you would be totally law abiding... Coming back, potentially breaking the law, £200, do not pass go. 

    ***. What Muppets wrote this pile? 

     

     

     

    I think the bit about intending to use the components in the manufacture of ammunition covers that.

    This amendment alone would completely **** full bore in this country, especially target shooting. Crappy factory ammo or nothing then is it?😞

     

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    1 hour ago, MartynGT4 said:

    This is an absolute disaster! 

    “Possession of component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture"

    (1)    

    Section 1 of the Firearms Act 1988 is amended as follows.

    (2)    

    After subsection (5) insert—

    “(6A)    

    A person commits an offence if—

    (a)    the person has in his or her possession or under his or her control the component parts of ammunition; and

    (b)    the person intends to use such articles to manufacture the component parts into ammunition.
             

    (6B)    A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable—
             
    (a)    on summary conviction—
         
    (i)    in England and Wales to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months (or in relation to offences committed before Section 154(1) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 comes into force six months) or to a fine or both;

    (ii)    in Scotland to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both;

         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         

    That’s me scuppered! I have loads of old brass at home, including artillery shell cases! 😂

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    4 minutes ago, bluesj said:

    Think eley, gamebore and hull will be happy about that! 

    And so will Winchester, PPU, S&B, Hornady, Norma and many many others!

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    I've heard from the NRA today that there's been a lot of amendments added during the committee stage, many of which stand very little change of gaining sufficient support to be carried. In other words, they've been added to provoke further debate and to explore related issues. So although it's highly unlikely this particular amendment, and others, will be carried the more we can do to keep our MPs informed with actual facts the better our chances will be!

    Edited by MartynGT4

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    3 hours ago, MartynGT4 said:

    And so will Winchester, PPU, S&B, Hornady, Norma and many many others!

    But they don't make ammo in the uk, eley etc do but if the above becomes law they won't be able to along with the rest of us!

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    19 hours ago, bluesj said:

    But they don't make ammo in the uk, eley etc do but if the above becomes law they won't be able to along with the rest of us!

    Apologies, I completely misunderstood your point (which is a very good one!). I thought you were referring to manufacturers being pleased with the prospect of shooters being forced to buy factory ammo 😉

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