Cartridge length

[wymberley]

On 09/09/2018 at 22:23, getthegat said:

Just found a discussion on " square load" holy moly what a mind mucker. 😵🤔

So excuse me if I'm missing something or being more than a bit dim, but what am I looking for when I cut up cartridges?

Having failed to act my age on Saturday, I spent most of Sunday in various MIUs or A&Es and am now grounded. Consequently, as I've always wondered I had a play. If we assume the current meaning of a "square load" and not the original that applied to black powder loads, then as I measured it, for a 12 bore this is 1&1/8 oz and for the 28 bore, 1/2 oz. I always thought that a 16 bore was 1 oz. However as I found a relationship between the 12 and 28 volumes, this looks to be 7/8 oz for the 16 and 3/4 oz for the 20 bore. Whereas the shot weights were accurate having used my loading scales, the same can't be said for the shot column height measurements so the figures given can not be considered to be any more than reasonably accurate.

[Stonepark]

Confirms what I understood from elsewhere going back to the traditional black powder loadings.

 “For a 12-gauge gun, 1 ounce of shot and 3 drams of powder, for a 16-gauge, 15/16 of an ounce of shot and 2 ¾ drams of powder. For a 20-gauge, 7/8 ounce of shot and 2 ½ drams of powder. For a 28-gauge, ¾-ounce of shot and 2 drams of powder, and for a .410 bore, a half ounce of shot and 2 drams of powder.

However, they are only make sense with pure soft lead and are a means of keeping the pressure down and therefore giving good patterns.

Once you change to steel, tungsten or similar or alloy the lead with enough antimomy to prevent crushing due to pressure, square load or not, makes little difference, i have found.

I have a nice little 410 load, 13gr with 21g lead shot with 2% antimony, push it to 14gr and the pattern deteriorates by 20% as it has passed through the pressure that the lead pellets deform.

 

 

 

[getthegat]

Not being a self loader, I'm struggling to get my poor old brain around this lot😵 but glad it sparked a good debate and brought out a wealth of knowledge.

[The Heron]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 18:02, getthegat said:

Ok, that makes sense. Having 2 ( and by next week 3) semi autos, that is useful advice and info. I don't know if I can bring myself to cut up a cartridge or 3, but when I get my latest acquisition, a Raptor 20 guage, I'll be testing different shells with different chokes for sure. I'm think if I use the same load in my 20 as in my 12 bore, but with more open choke, the pattern may be the same? so until I get use to it and, as someone on another thread said about a 410, "I learn to shoot", this may help me get use to the new fire stick😁

All I can say is don't buy to many Hull cartridges of any length or weight for your semi-auto my Benelli will not cycle them at any price but anything else no problem no matter what length or weight 24 to 36 g and anything in between.

[The Burpster]

11 minutes ago, The Heron said:

All I can say is don't buy to many Hull cartridges of any length or weight for your semi-auto my Benelli will not cycle them at any price but anything else no problem no matter what length or weight 24 to 36 g and anything in between.

🤣 exactly my findings too! 

[getthegat]

First ever non cycling shell this morning, Hushpower 30 grm #5 in my newly acquired Franchi Raptor 20 bore. Some might say why were you putting subs though a non moderated gun anyway;  well just because I wanted to see what they were like noise wise and they need using. Anyway, every shot resulted in a minor jam up. Once back on to Gamebore #6 30grms, all was well and 19 woodies and one crow proved the combo.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

14 minutes ago, getthegat said:

First ever non cycling shell this morning, Hushpower 30 grm #5 in my newly acquired Franchi Raptor 20 bore. Some might say why were you putting subs though a non moderated gun anyway;  well just because I wanted to see what they were like noise wise and they need using. Anyway, every shot resulted in a minor jam up. Once back on to Gamebore #6 30grms, all was well and 19 woodies and one crow proved the combo.

To really see how they stack up sound wise you really need to get someone else to shoot the gun for you and you stand out to the side listening, very different to when you are firing it yourself.

[getthegat]

Second that. Had the chance to be beside someone who shot a Mossy Hushpower I use to own. You can't appreciate how quiet they are shooting it yourself. I had the Raptor set on light load. Guess some clever bod on here would be able to tell me why they wouldn't cycle. 

On a positive note, getting 20 kills for just over 30 shots on my first proper outing with the newly acquired gun.....I'm happy 😁

[islandgun]

21 hours ago, The Heron said:

All I can say is don't buy to many Hull cartridges of any length or weight for your semi-auto my Benelli will not cycle them at any price but anything else no problem no matter what length or weight 24 to 36 g and anything in between.

Ive been trying to find out why my cre8 28g wasnt cycling.. try and guess what cartridges i have

[The Heron]

I put a thread on here in august about my Benelli 20 gauge would not cycle I received some great advice on here ranging from trying different cartridges to replacing the spring or sending it back to GMK I went with the easy one first and tried different cartridges GAMEBORE NSI FIOCCHI and in fact any other load or make would cycle without a problem I spoke direct to the technical people at Hull and they insisted that the problem was not with there product but the proof was there, I have an idea that once fired the plastic case in Hull cartridges expands so much that it prevents ejection of the cartridge but perhaps other people on here have a different theory.

[islandgun]

11 minutes ago, The Heron said:

I put a thread on here in august about my Benelli 20 gauge would not cycle I received some great advice on here ranging from trying different cartridges to replacing the spring or sending it back to GMK I went with the easy one first and tried different cartridges GAMEBORE NSI FIOCCHI and in fact any other load or make would cycle without a problem I spoke direct to the technical people at Hull and they insisted that the problem was not with there product but the proof was there, I have an idea that once fired the plastic case in Hull cartridges expands so much that it prevents ejection of the cartridge but perhaps other people on here have a different theory.

As I remember it, HULL uses Cheddite cases, i will be reloading some cheddite loads next week and will let you know how they go

[The Heron]

I will be interested in the results.

[Continental Shooter]

Ok, probably my advise in not unbiased as i hate benelly and proud myself of now having owned on in ll my life 

i have seen so many times Benelli getting stuck that i had (and have) no desire to see one close up.

anyway on most cases the esiest -and cheapest- solution is to add 2" of spring to the existing one or replace the existing one with a longer one.

Also, if you shoot a lot, you probably want to clean the spring in the stock and see if that improves the situation.

Failing that, i think it might just be that the cartridges aren't producing enough gas/kinetic eneregy to allow the gun to extract the hull correctly; if oyu find other cartridges have no issues in rearming the gun... well, the rest goes without saying LOL