pinfireman Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 On 09/10/2018 at 15:22, timps said: Your first link is a piece by Marcel van den Berg which is a blog trying to discredit any Russian involvement MH17 plenty of conflict of interest there and no fact checking in what he says is true or who he even is. Your second is Wikispooks god knows who edited that or their agender. However, one of the citations on that page is Newsbud Breaking News: which states Turkey’s Coup Plotters are Members of NATO’s Rapid Deployable Corps… The third well its statement “NATO is the military alliance run by the Anglo-American power elite which illegally expanded militarily towards the Russian border since the early 1990s. Russia is being attacked economically by means of sanctions that are based on hypocritical reasons which ignore crucial facts of history.“ Says it all really, we are the evil west in bed with the Americans and NATO is to blame. It seems odd that you accept that what they say about Bellingcat without seeing any of their bias or if the facts they post are actually true yet you continually dismiss Bellingcat or any view of Russian involvement quite easily. I have no idea on Bellingcat impartiality and it doesn't really matter if the two people are who they say they are, but the three links you have posted are anti-NATO pro-Russian in the extreme and do not try to hide it. You can see bias one way but not the other that is what hurts your argument here. Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, henry d said: On the 12th may 1982 (LTBAD) I was on HMS Glasgow and we had been pummelling Argentinian defences around Port Stanley with 00`s of 4.5" shells over two nights, so they sent out some A4`s to stop us and possibly break our defence line and attack the carriers. HMS Brilliant`s sea wolf missiles hit one wave, but due to the next wave coming in at a different angle it was not deemed a threat (to Brilliant) by the system so it did not fire at them and our 4.5 and sea dart failed too, so we were hit by a 1000lb bomb, which failed to explode and entered stbd just above the waterline in the aft engine room and exited port right on the waterline. The problems were many and I won`t bore you, but it goes to show that even with the best of kit, and excellent expertise things can and do go wrong at times, the world is not full of GI Joes, James Bonds or Jason Bournes. Very brave lads. A little video, and some nice comments and memories from some who served on her. 6 minutes ago, SpringDon said: I don’t like to point fingers. But your shells probably annoyed them, and that’s why they bombed you. Sometimes you have to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. Really ? Maybe if they hadnt invaded in the first place, a lot of brave lads on both sides would still be alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, henry d said: On the 12th may 1982 (LTBAD) I was on HMS Glasgow and we had been pummelling Argentinian defences around Port Stanley with 00`s of 4.5" shells over two nights, so they sent out some A4`s to stop us and possibly break our defence line and attack the carriers. HMS Brilliant`s sea wolf missiles hit one wave, but due to the next wave coming in at a different angle it was not deemed a threat (to Brilliant) by the system so it did not fire at them and our 4.5 and sea dart failed too, so we were hit by a 1000lb bomb, which failed to explode and entered stbd just above the waterline in the aft engine room and exited port right on the waterline. The problems were many and I won`t bore you, but it goes to show that even with the best of kit, and excellent expertise things can and do go wrong at times, the world is not full of GI Joes, James Bonds or Jason Bournes. Excellent! Having kept up with this thread from the beginning, I am now off to buy shares in Bacofoil.........................it,s going to be win, win! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Excellent! Having kept up with this thread from the beginning, I am now off to buy shares in Bacofoil.........................it,s going to be win, win! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 Has not this topic been done to death now? Critisise the government/establishment as much as you like, but best leave our soldiers sailors and airforce out of it eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, SpringDon said: I don’t like to point fingers. But your shells probably annoyed them, and that’s why they bombed you. Sometimes you have to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. Eh? It did all spark off when Argentina invaded British Sovereign territory. And yes, I am aware that Argentina wishes to lay claim to the Falkand Islands, but ignoring international law and convention by "helping yourself" with a military invasion, well it is reasonably foreseeable that that type of action will be met with a response in kind. Indeed, if the Argentinians had put themselves in our shoes they would have had a reasonable expectation of what would come next. Having been to Argentina (and Buenos) a couple of times and seen the Argentinian veteran camp in the City centre and having spoken to a few of the younger Argentinians, the truth appears to be that Argentina doesn't really want the Islands and laments the loss of a trading relationship with the UK. There are almost daily protests in Argentina about everything and anything and when the government of the day feels under internal pressure it stirs up national spirit in an attempt to divert, galvanise and distract the population into looking elsewhere and that's when the subject of the Falklands crops up. It's a bit of a shame because a large portion of the older bits of Argentina a very very colonial - the reminded me of the Bisley range houses. Edited October 11, 2018 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Rewulf said: One from the family album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, Scully said: One from the family album? Me and the kids , gotta start em young 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Me and the kids , gotta start em young 😂 😂👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Mungler said: Eh? It did all spark off when Argentina invaded British Sovereign territory. And yes, I am aware that Argentina wishes to lay claim to the Falkand Islands, but ignoring international law and convention by "helping yourself" with a military invasion, well it is reasonably foreseeable that that type of action will be met with a response in kind. Indeed, if the Argentinians had put themselves in our shoes they would have had a reasonable expectation of what would come next. Having been to Argentina (and Buenos) a couple of times and seen the Argentinian veteran camp in the City centre and having spoken to a few of the younger Argentinians, the truth appears to be that Argentina doesn't really want the Islands and laments the loss of a trading relationship with the UK. There are almost daily protests in Argentina about everything and anything and when the government of the day feels under internal pressure it stirs up national spirit in an attempt to divert, galvanise and distract the population into looking elsewhere and that's when the subject of the Falklands crops up. It's a bit of a shame because a large portion of the older bits of Argentina a very very colonial - the reminded me of the Bisley range houses. Excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 Galtiery concocted the whole "we want the Malvinas Islands back" shebang to divert the eyes of the Argentinian people from the country's rapid decline towards bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 Got to hand it to those Argentinian pilots, they were incredibly brave pilots and very good at what they did. Fortunately for us I believe that they dropped there munitions from such a low altitude that the fuse did not have time to activate, hence lots of vessels were hit very accurately but by dud bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 11, 2018 Report Share Posted October 11, 2018 35 minutes ago, scolopax said: Got to hand it to those Argentinian pilots, they were incredibly brave pilots and very good at what they did. Fortunately for us I believe that they dropped there munitions from such a low altitude that the fuse did not have time to activate, hence lots of vessels were hit very accurately but by dud bombs. Yes several of the 500lb bombs dropped with insufficient height to allow the arming vane to spin enough revolutions to arm the fuse and to put everything in place to allow the fuse to function correctly and high order the bomb. It then leaves an extremely dangerous bomb sitting within the vessel awaiting the attention of a Bomb Disposal Team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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