Anyone a watch collector?

[Retsdon]

I seem to be developing an interest in watches - although to be honest the ones that I really covet are outside my price bracket. I was just wondering if there were anyfans of horology on these boards, and if so do you specialize and how many watches do you actually have? I'm looking to find a niche that doesn't break the bank!

Edited September 23, 2018 by Retsdon
spelling

[guzzicat]

25 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I seem to be developing an interest in watches - although to be honest the ones that I really covert are outside my price bracket. I was just wondering if there were anyfans of horology on these boards, and if so do you specialize and how many watches do you actually have? I'm looking to find a niche that doesn't break the bank!

Seiko mechanical divers watches are still in that bracket, I just had a minor clear out but still have a few, also Orient are worth a look but beware of fakes!

[m3vert]

Yes I sadly fall into this bracket! Too many watches really as you can only wear one, well unless you are Maradona and out your face at the world cup in which case you wear one on each wrist!!!
I have a few Seiko divers and chronographs, some right old Timex, Breitling, Panerai, Rolex and my favourite a 1963 Garard that belonged to my Grandad that I paid a lot to have refurbished. There are some old Seiko and other brands from the70's and 80's that won't break the bank that you could get into. In my experience folk are either into watches or they really just don't get it. For me its the mechanical side of them that I love, I also love the history of the brands and particular models. I always wanted a Pepsi GMT and luckily managed to pick a good one up just before their preices went a bit daft over the last few years! Buy what you like and what you will wear rather than what is in trend or what some folk will tell  you will make money! Most watches will not make you money so buy wisely if investing ;-)

[JohnfromUK]

17 minutes ago, m3vert said:

Buy what you like and what you will wear rather than what is in trend or what some folk will tell  you will make money! Most watches will not make you money so buy wisely if investing 😉

+1

I have two old(er) Rolexes.  Not great value as just plain steel 'base' models.  One was 'mine' and dates from late 1970s, the other my father's dating from late 1940s.  To run and use them they require service and clean every 5 years or so (or they begin to have poor timekeeping).  Both (genuine Rolex) service and any (genuine) spares needed (such as strap parts) are astronomically expensive.  Third party service is cheaper, but still not cheap - some are not a proper service, just doing a solvent type clean.  Good specialist services are still expensive.  I am not competent to strip and clean a watch.Both are now 'retired', though in working order.

As always with 'collectables' the only real profits are right at the top of the market ........ and mostly made by the dealers/auction houses.

There are specialist auction houses like Gardiner Houlgate https://www.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/watches/

[m3vert]

10 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

+1

I have two old(er) Rolexes.  Not great value as just plain steel 'base' models.  One was 'mine' and dates from late 1970s, the other my father's dating from late 1940s.  To run and use them they require service and clean every 5 years or so (or they begin to have poor timekeeping).  Both (genuine Rolex) service and any (genuine) spares needed (such as strap parts) are astronomically expensive.  Third party service is cheaper, but still not cheap - some are not a proper service, just doing a solvent type clean.  Good specialist services are still expensive.  I am not competent to strip and clean a watch.Both are now 'retired', though in working order.

As always with 'collectables' the only real profits are right at the top of the market ........ and mostly made by the dealers/auction houses.

There are specialist auction houses like Gardiner Houlgate https://www.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/watches/

To be fair though John my 17610 GMT Rolex could be punted for a nice 2.5-3k profit at the moment if I wanted after only 4 years ownership, its a 2011 and they are doing silly money at the moment. However since its a watch I fancied since I started working, its unlikely to be sold unless needs must.  Out of interest what models are your 1970's and 1940's rolex that you have retired? I have never gone with the 5 years servicing, and instead serviced as required. The Breitling is now 8 years old and has stopped unexpectedly a couple of times and will now go for a service, although I am gifting it to my Son for his 21st so it will sit tucked away and go for a service a few months before his birthday. I managed to get a free service with the 17610 when I bought it so at least I know when it starts playing up the first one isn't costing me anything ;-) Its 4 years in since its last service and is still the most accurate watch (mechanical) I own.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, m3vert said:

To be fair though John my 17610 GMT Rolex could be punted for a nice 2.5-3k profit at the moment if I wanted after only 4 years ownership, its a 2011 and they are doing silly money at the moment. However since its a watch I fancied since I started working, its unlikely to be sold unless needs must.  Out of interest what models are your 1970's and 1940's rolex that you have retired? I have never gone with the 5 years servicing, and instead serviced as required.

There are certainly some models that have done well.  Mine is a (roughly 1978) 'mid sized' Oyster Datejust chronometer self winding in stainless steel with the steel strap.  My fathers is a roughly 1946/7 a 'mid sized' Oyster with manual winding and no date and has a (genuine but later replacement) steel strap.

I found mine used to go about 5 years keeping time to about a minute or two a month then tends to get poorer in timekeeping quite quickly after that.  Last time I had a quote for genuine Rolex service it needed some strap parts (badly worn after 25 to 30 years continuous use) and the total quote (from a Rolex appointed jeweller) was over £1000.  I had it cleaned by a 3rd party specialist recommended by a collector friend, and didn't do the strap.  I think that was about £150.  I went to a Junghans radio controlled (which I still have) - and keeps perfect time (of course), but I have to change the battery myself as Junghans wanted some silly price and no local battery place will touch it.  It is quite difficult to open and has a glass back (to allow radio waves through)

[Ricko]

My son is an amateur horologist, he's only 16. He buys nice looking chronographs on eBay (Rotary, Sekonda etc), cleans them, resets them and fits a new strap. He's made a nice job of some, he's just shown me a refurbed Rotary that he's giving to his best mate for his birthday, quite nice. I know it's only low end stuff but it's a good little hobby. I regularly crack my glass in work and he's got a press to replace them. And he only charges me for the new glass!!!

[AVB]

I have a Breitling, IWC, Bell & Ross, Hamilton and a U2. Also an Apple Watch I’m afraid to say. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, AVB said:

Also an Apple Watch I’m afraid to say.

So do I !

[m3vert]

Apple watch! Lads go hang your head in shame I can hardly read the Panerai without my reading glasses so those tiny Apple techno things have no chance of telling me the time

[figgy]

Not a watch collector but i do have a drawer with quire a few cheap battered work watches i should have thrown away, some others i keep as i like them nothing of great value though. for telling the time quartz wins everytime.

Never seen the charm of the GMT master in blue and red bezel, had seikos of the same look decades ago for work and swimming in.

I much prefer the nice gents dress watches over the diver type watches.

[countryman]

Have a look at Invicta, you will have to get the better ones from America so there will be import tax. There range is endless and so are the prices.

[davewh100]

my lad is looking for rolex submarine bi metal looks like 12/18 month waiting list on new told him to try find one a couple of years old as they come with a five year warranty

[Mike_]

I recently bought a Rolex 16233 Datejust with Diamond hour markers, box & papers.

I always wanted a Rolex and set myself the aim of purchasing one before turning 30.  I was a month late but it was worth it, fining a good condition one with the papers/box.

I dont wear it every day (I have a trust casio GA-100 for that) but I wear it every weekend. 

I was unsure about servicing etc but after reading this I may skip the every 3 years and do every 5 if it still keeps time well.

I wanted a watch winder but then means leaving the watch out of the safe. Im scared that all the winding may knacker up the internals quicker...?

[Loki]

Hi Mike_

I have heard some watches dont do so well in a watch winder..........

Steel Rolex Sub-dates will always hold silly money. Some Omegas will too - mid-70/80s Speedmaster Professional. Tudor (have history similar/part of Rolex awhile back) and their Black Bay seems to review well.

Drill into Watch Forums - eg. TZ-UK, RolexForum etc. to build up information/knowledge - some scary stuff when drilling into these........

Maintenance costs can be disproportionate and provenance/papers mean alot!

L

[m3vert]

13 hours ago, Mike_ said:

I recently bought a Rolex 16233 Datejust with Diamond hour markers, box & papers.

I always wanted a Rolex and set myself the aim of purchasing one before turning 30.  I was a month late but it was worth it, fining a good condition one with the papers/box.

I dont wear it every day (I have a trust casio GA-100 for that) but I wear it every weekend. 

I was unsure about servicing etc but after reading this I may skip the every 3 years and do every 5 if it still keeps time well.

I wanted a watch winder but then means leaving the watch out of the safe. Im scared that all the winding may knacker up the internals quicker...?

You can buy watch winders that are battery operated and fit inside your safe fine. I gave my double winder away, it was a budget one to be fair, but I came back from a month away to find the Panerai had shifted inside the winder and the glass was touching the inside of the glass window on the winder. There was a score all the way round the glass on the winder where it had rubbed together for 28 days! Thankfully the watch was fine, but decided there and then I would rather spend a few mins setting my watches when I change them rather than have a damaged one in a winder that was ready to wear but scratched! I am sure this would not have happened with a pricey winder to be fair. A good winder is unlikely to damage the mechanical movement of a watch in my opinion, but there again some of the winders on the market cost more than my watches!

Edited September 25, 2018 by m3vert

[AVB]

14 hours ago, Mike_ said:

I recently bought a Rolex 16233 Datejust with Diamond hour markers, box & papers.

I always wanted a Rolex and set myself the aim of purchasing one before turning 30.  I was a month late but it was worth it, fining a good condition one with the papers/box.

I dont wear it every day (I have a trust casio GA-100 for that) but I wear it every weekend. 

I was unsure about servicing etc but after reading this I may skip the every 3 years and do every 5 if it still keeps time well.

I wanted a watch winder but then means leaving the watch out of the safe. Im scared that all the winding may knacker up the internals quicker...?

I used to work with some serious watch collectors. They were adamant that the watch was better off being continually wound rather than stopped and started. Considering how much they spent on watches I assumed they knew what they were talking about. 

[Seadog1408]

40 minutes ago, AVB said:

I used to work with some serious watch collectors. They were adamant that the watch was better off being continually wound rather than stopped and started. Considering how much they spent on watches I assumed they knew what they were talking about. 

Did they leave their cars running when not in use also?

didnt think so.

[fitzy]

Have a look at Vostok,  real throw back to the USSR. Inexpensive but interesting with cult following. I've got a Komandirskie and it's a lovely eye catching watch. The Amphibian range are good too. Used to be buttons but prices are climbing. They can be a bit rough but there's a charm to them.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by fitzy

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, fitzy said:

Have a look at Vostok,  real throw back to the USSR. Inexpensive but interesting with cult following. I've got a Komandirskie and it's a lovely eye catching watch. The Amphibian range are good too. Used to be buttons but prices are climbing. 

 

 

You'll need to go to the gym for a month first!

[fitzy]

Don't get confused with Vostok Europe on the shopping channels. Different company - hideous.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes that's what I was thinking of, not very classy at all.

[Mungler]

My business partner is seriously into watches; mainly AP,  Heuer and very early Seikos (he showed me a Seiko he spent £6k on and reckons is already worth £10k but looks like it should have been a tenner from a jumble sale). 

There’s some brands that won’t lose money; if you buy second hand popular rolex sports model but for the brands that lift off you need some understanding of the watch world. Indeed, as above, who knew there was any Seiko worth £6k let alone £10k.

 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Mungler said:

My business partner is seriously into watches; mainly AP,  Heuer and very early Seikos (he showed me a Seiko he spent £6k on and reckons is already worth £10k but looks like it should have been a tenner from a jumble sale). 

There’s some brands that won’t lose money; if you buy second hand popular rolex sports model but for the brands that lift off you need some understanding of the watch world. Indeed, as above, who knew there was any Seiko worth £6k let alone £10k.

 

If you are a serious collector you should collect what you like - in other words for enjoyment.

If you are in it for investment you need to do much serious research and understand the subject and market.  What you like and what has real investment potential may be different things.

Personally, as a 'collector' (though not of watches) - I only collect what I enjoy.  If the value goes up, great, if it doesn't - I still have something I like to own.

[fitzy]

One of the appeals of Rolex to me is their rock solid residual values. Hardly set the horology world alight but you wont lose half it's value walking out the shop with it like you would with a JLC or VC. Rolex 5% price increase on 1st october.

 

If you want to look into watch collecting have a look on this forum, plenty of really interesting makes and models that don't require a footballer's salary.

http://walletfriendlywatchforum.com/

 

Eddie Platts' TimeFactors is worth a look. The TZUK forum is a great place although seems to have become Rolex obsessed in recent years and all the poorer for it.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by fitzy