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flynny

Dog just cant control his excitement

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    I have a GWP X LAB ,hes 16 months old. He is good as gold , walks to heel (when told lol) sits ,stays  etc etc, and he retreives like a demon

     

    The problem I have is when off the lead and walking to heel, if he sees another dog I have to make him sit and stay( which he does 7 out of 10 times)  but every now and then he cant control himself and is off like a bleddy rocket!!!! hes a very  friendly dog  , but this behaviour is really frustrating me!!

     

    He will come straight back to me after he has said Hello , but with his " i know I shouldn't have done that dad" look

     

    He gets a good telling off and wont do it again after he's had a rollocking lol,

     

    I hope its because he's still a young un?????? AKA giddy ballcocks lol

     

    Its doing my head in now though !!!

     

    Any tips off the experts are much appreciated

     

    Flynny

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    Hard to not give your dog a rollocking when you call him back but, dont  do it, go out to him and tell him off otherwise your dog will associate coming to you with a telling off.

    Go back to basics everytime it starts going wrong, its the best advice i was ever given. Make sure you put a lead on him if you think there maybe other dogs as he will soon learn he can run off and you cant stop him.

     

    i have been working away for months so cant wait to see how my dog goes first time out on the marsh when i get chance. it ll be cue the benny hill music or he will be very good, being seven now he knows right from wrong but will still try it on.

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    Had a lab do the same. Found this worked for me.

    Would blow stop whilste as soon as she bolted. She would keep going, id throw down the lead, my hat, bag - whatever I had to mark the spot she was on when I blew the whilst. 

    Then id March out to her calmly as ever, no calling, no fussing, no telling off, cool as a cucumber. 

    Get hold of the dog by the scruff and lifting from 2 paws up off the ground, and remaining calmly as ever, march the dog back to the exact spot it ignored the whistle. 

    Make the dog sit on the spot, blow the stop whistle twice loudly and repeat the sit/hup command. At no point ever are you trying to hurt or scare the dog. Just reinforced the command. 

    Think I only had to do this twice and the problem was sorted. 

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    Best and easiest way is keep it on the lead.

    With most gundog problems usually prevention is better than cure.

    With time it should grow out of it as long as u keep working on other basics. Want to conentrate on heel work figure of 8's lots of stops turns etc

     

    After a while when u eant to walk to heel off lead, 1st i'd put 2 sip leas on at same time, so make a big fuss if taking 1 off u still have 1 on so if dog tries to bolt its tillon a lead.

    Everytime the dog bolts and enjoys meeting other dogs etc its making it harder to stop as self rewarding

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    56 minutes ago, scotslad said:

    Best and easiest way is keep it on the lead.

    With most gundog problems usually prevention is better than cure.

    With time it should grow out of it as long as u keep working on other basics. Want to conentrate on heel work figure of 8's lots of stops turns etc

     

    After a while when u eant to walk to heel off lead, 1st i'd put 2 sip leas on at same time, so make a big fuss if taking 1 off u still have 1 on so if dog tries to bolt its tillon a lead.

    Everytime the dog bolts and enjoys meeting other dogs etc its making it harder to stop as self rewarding

    Yes but if the dog doesn’t grow out of it you will need to address the problem through training and correction, and need to know how properly without spooking the dog. 

    Foresight is always a nice thing mind. As Scotslad said - when you see someone that could cause an issue, it’s much better to pop the lead on, and avoid the issue arising in the first place. 

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    Llyod ur total right about foresight. And when u watch/work with some of the better dog trainers there noticing dogs body lanauge so early and correcting the dog as soon as the dog thought about it never mind when it actually moved, or for most average trainers 2 secs after it moved. That is often the difference with the really good trainers just so in tune with their dogs.

     

    Llyod i'd say ur over complicating it and while rightly being brought up for ignoring stop whistle has got of with running off in 1st place. Plus if only sitting 7/10 tines at heel no chance of it sitting to stop command

    I've done the sort of thing u talk about many times lloyd too, but catching  a 16 month old dog might not be easy (esp with a bit of wire in it) also the reason it has ran off is another dog, so it means ur in public so while i don't think wot u describe a cruel/over the top etc i'm sure many of the general public would. As most have no idea about dog training or discipling dogs.

    I see where ur coming from with blowing the stop whistle, but in my opinion ur just asking for it to disobey the stop as well as the heel command.

    1 of the goldeln rules try never to give a command u think dog will ignore..

     

    For me the problem is heel and the dog thinks its allowed to break of a heel. So u need to do far more lead work so it learns it can't break of heel, also work on siting on a lead so absolutletly instant (just basic obedieance really) even sitting when u stop walking with no command. Also work on recall in distraction free areas and work up to areas with distractions but only when 100%. Really just sounds like the basics aren't 100% yet (possibly the wire in him as they can be slow to mature at times)

    Then walk him nearer to areas where other dogs are, if he is on the lead a few yanks/no and turn the oppisate way should stop it quickly. But also praise/reward after he has walked past a dog and ignored it at heel

    U want to carry on with the lead for a long time after u last corrected him, if he runs off once to play ur back to the start again.

    Hence the 2 leads or have a long line tied on a collar for when lead comes off.

     

    Sort of thing group training or dog obedieance classes can be good for, dou not know anyone else with a dog that could help u?

    I was helping my neighbours with the exact same problem last wknd, its just a pet but came on leaps and bounds esp with a few treats thrown in, not everyone (many gundog trainers use them) but can be handy for things like this,

    Edited by scotslad

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    You can also use a longline of para cord. If the dog goes step on it so you have control and get out lift by the scruff of the neck and back to where it broke heel. Work with a mate to set the dog so you can teach it what it is doing wrong. I have a twenty month old that is occasionally doing this but it is becoming less frequent.

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    17 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    Had a lab do the same. Found this worked for me.

    Would blow stop whilste as soon as she bolted. She would keep going, id throw down the lead, my hat, bag - whatever I had to mark the spot she was on when I blew the whilst. 

    Then id March out to her calmly as ever, no calling, no fussing, no telling off, cool as a cucumber. 

    Get hold of the dog by the scruff and lifting from 2 paws up off the ground, and remaining calmly as ever, march the dog back to the exact spot it ignored the whistle. 

    Make the dog sit on the spot, blow the stop whistle twice loudly and repeat the sit/hup command. At no point ever are you trying to hurt or scare the dog. Just reinforced the command. 

    Think I only had to do this twice and the problem was sorted. 

    This is very good advice. You must go after the dog rather than call him back to give him a telling off,  because the next stage is that he'll start half coming back to you as well - and then your problems will really start!  Another thing is that, as Scotslad said,  if you anticipate that a command is going to be ignored - in other words that the dog will bolt regardless - and you're not in a position to go after the dog to bring  him back - just let him go without trying to stop him. People sometimes forget that nearly all dog training is not about some Homeric battle of wills - rather it's the more mundane process of instilling a conditioned response to a stimulus (the whistle or command) through repetition. So, every time that you whistle and the dog ignores you and gets away with it - what you're actually conditioning him to do through repetition is to ignore the whistle. 

    But as the knowledgeable posters up the thread have pointed out - anticipation is the key. Until you know that the dog is properly steady either keep  him on a lead or else in controlled circumstances away from distractions. And if you want to just take him for a run in the park - let him run in the park without mixing in commands and training. Sometimes in dog training the Zen saying 'if you want to control your cow, put her in a bigger field' can be a very useful maxim. 

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    20 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

    You can also use a longline of para cord. If the dog goes step on it so you have control and get out lift by the scruff of the neck and back to where it broke heel.

    I found that I had to be a little bit careful of this one. Overuse it and the dog can get cute to when the cord is attached and when it's not. So my approach would be to use a long line sparingly and actually set up the unsteady dog to break heel while it's on  - by walking him somewhere where I knew he would  want to bolt - and then once he's on his way, whistle and stop him HARD. It doesn't take too many times before they get the message.

    It's strange. There seems to be a complete polar opposite in successful approaches between training a dog to do what we want, and impressing on a dog what we DON"T want. When you're training a dog to do positive things, little and often invariably works best. On the other hand if you want to stop a dog doing something you don't want, just pecking at him is as often as not worse than useless. He just gets inured to it. So far better to jerk him clean off his feet once than to tug at him fifty times. Of course, I'm talking here about a dog that does actually know what he's supposed to do when he gets the command but is choosing to go self-employed instead. 

    I'm editing in a little bit more for the the OP, Flynny in case he wants to try a long line. Here would be my step by step routine.

    1)  Away from distractions, walk the dog on a normal lead . Have him sit when you stop, etc, etc. The usual thing....

    2) Walk the dog off the lead to heel away from distractions. Have him sit when you stop, etc, etc. Before you use a long line, the dog should be doing this as a matter of course.

    3) Put the dog back on the normal lead and walk him somewhere where he'll be distracted - other dogs in your case ( I used to use a rabbity field). He'll know the lead is on and almost certainly stay steady. If he's not steady and pulls against the lead it should be stop and go back to basics again.

    4) If the dog passes test 3) above, take the lead off and make sure the dog knows you''re taking it off. Now here comes the trick. At  the same time you take the lead off, you surreptitiously attach your long line to his collar. Now start walking again with the dog at heel, but make sure that the line is never tight or touches his back -  the dog shouldn't be aware that it's there. This time if he bolts, give him a few yards then whistle him and give him a hell of a jerk. The idea is to give the dog a huge '***. happened there!?? moment. If he's not already doing it, command him to sit - go to him ...'Ha, you didn't think I could do that did you?" put the lead on again and remove the long line and put it quietly away. Walk him again on the lead, and now you're back to 1/3) above. Rinse and repeat as necessary. The key to the whole thing is to trick the dog into believing that the jerk comes out of a clear blue sky when he's NOT on the lead. The long line should remain a mystery to him. But of course, like any bait and switch trick, the more often it's performed the more likely it is to be rumbled, and that's why it wants to be used judiciously. 

    Just a note that you don't need to follow all these steps in the same session, or if the dog is far enough on you can skip 1 and 2. But I'm convinced that it's a good idea to do 3 and 4 at the same time. As I said above, a dog can get cute to the long line if he know's it's being attached and putting it on while you're making a show of removing the lead is a good way to keep him in the dark.

    Hope this might help.

     

     

    Edited by Retsdon
    add a bit

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    I was explaining dog's and training to someone in the pub the other night, i compared it to driving a car. 

    Any fool can get it to go forward, but actually getting it to go were you want under control is the thing. And if course getting it to stop, preferably before it hits an obstacle. 

    We train ours probably 6 hours a week, these are not a solid hours,  it's an hour a week single one on one and maybe another 1/2  hour a week with multiple dog's. The rest is training while out on a walk, this involves sitting and recall on whistle, walking to heel (off a lead) waiting and basic obedience around other dogs. 

    All play time is a "go play" command, may sound boring to some but we see both playtime and training both at the same level of importance. But both kept seperate. 

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    Lots of good advice above.  YOU have to be one step ahead, ALWAYS and this relates to everything to do with a dog. WE control their natural instincts.  Many times my wife has questioned me WHY did I pull my dogs back and put them on their leads with slight admonishment. "They had NOT done anything" she would say.  My reply was, " They were about to"

    Recently saw a lovely dog whos owner hadn't a clue. The dog was doing exactly what you described and worse, totally out of control and I knew what was going to happen and it ended in a short fight.

     

    Dougy put it in a nutshell.

    Edited by Walker570

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    14 hours ago, Retsdon said:

    I found that I had to be a little bit careful of this one. Overuse it and the dog can get cute to when the cord is attached and when it's not. So my approach would be to use a long line sparingly and actually set up the unsteady dog to break heel while it's on  - by walking him somewhere where I knew he would  want to bolt - and then once he's on his way, whistle and stop him HARD. It doesn't take too many times before they get the message.

    It's strange. There seems to be a complete polar opposite in successful approaches between training a dog to do what we want, and impressing on a dog what we DON"T want. When you're training a dog to do positive things, little and often invariably works best. On the other hand if you want to stop a dog doing something you don't want, just pecking at him is as often as not worse than useless. He just gets inured to it. So far better to jerk him clean off his feet once than to tug at him fifty times. Of course, I'm talking here about a dog that does actually know what he's supposed to do when he gets the command but is choosing to go self-employed instead. 

    I'm editing in a little bit more for the the OP, Flynny in case he wants to try a long line. Here would be my step by step routine.

    1)  Away from distractions, walk the dog on a normal lead . Have him sit when you stop, etc, etc. The usual thing....

    2) Walk the dog off the lead to heel away from distractions. Have him sit when you stop, etc, etc. Before you use a long line, the dog should be doing this as a matter of course.

    3) Put the dog back on the normal lead and walk him somewhere where he'll be distracted - other dogs in your case ( I used to use a rabbity field). He'll know the lead is on and almost certainly stay steady. If he's not steady and pulls against the lead it should be stop and go back to basics again.

    4) If the dog passes test 3) above, take the lead off and make sure the dog knows you''re taking it off. Now here comes the trick. At  the same time you take the lead off, you surreptitiously attach your long line to his collar. Now start walking again with the dog at heel, but make sure that the line is never tight or touches his back -  the dog shouldn't be aware that it's there. This time if he bolts, give him a few yards then whistle him and give him a hell of a jerk. The idea is to give the dog a huge '***. happened there!?? moment. If he's not already doing it, command him to sit - go to him ...'Ha, you didn't think I could do that did you?" put the lead on again and remove the long line and put it quietly away. Walk him again on the lead, and now you're back to 1/3) above. Rinse and repeat as necessary. The key to the whole thing is to trick the dog into believing that the jerk comes out of a clear blue sky when he's NOT on the lead. The long line should remain a mystery to him. But of course, like any bait and switch trick, the more often it's performed the more likely it is to be rumbled, and that's why it wants to be used judiciously. 

    Just a note that you don't need to follow all these steps in the same session, or if the dog is far enough on you can skip 1 and 2. But I'm convinced that it's a good idea to do 3 and 4 at the same time. As I said above, a dog can get cute to the long line if he know's it's being attached and putting it on while you're making a show of removing the lead is a good way to keep him in the dark.

    Hope this might help.

     

     

    I find the para cord light enough that if used for a while they get used to it and then you set them up as explained. Make sure you put knots at intervals so that when you put your foot on it there is something to grip.

     

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    1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

    I find the para cord light enough that if used for a while they get used to it

    Do you just leave it on all the time then? That should work too I would imagine. 

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    7 hours ago, Retsdon said:

    Do you just leave it on all the time then? That should work too I would imagine. 

    I leave it on when walking them. I would only leave on when retrieving if in a grass field where it cannot tangle. They do get used to it and I use about 8-10 m length with knots every metre. I then use it for control sparingly but it is a gentle reminder that they are not in control, I am.

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    Here's a bit of a sad story. 

     

    A chap who was maybe in his lte 50s walking his dog in the local park, throwing a tennis ball. His dog's retrieves it every time running straight back to his owner. One day it runs through the hedge and under a lorry. Killed outright, you see the owner sitting on the kerb crying his heart out holding his dog, a Springer. 

    These accidents can be greatly reduced if you can get your dog to STOP on command.

    Note I said greatly reduced, not stopped completely. 

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    Had the pleasure of shooting grouse over pointers a few years ago and the person running the dogs had a youngster still in training, she had a bright yellow plastic washing line attached to the dogs colour trailing behind. Not only did this allow her to step on it if necessary but also when the dog came on point she could lift the line and slowly approach the dog being in control when the birds lifted. The line was probabaly 20yrd or so long but the plastic coating just slid through the heather no problem.  Had a great day just seeing those dogs work.

    Edited by Walker570

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    1 hour ago, Dougy said:

    Here's a bit of a sad story. 

     

    A chap who was maybe in his lte 50s walking his dog in the local park, throwing a tennis ball. His dog's retrieves it every time running straight back to his owner. One day it runs through the hedge and under a lorry. Killed outright, you see the owner sitting on the kerb crying his heart out holding his dog, a Springer. 

    These accidents can be greatly reduced if you can get your dog to STOP on command.

    Note I said greatly reduced, not stopped completely. 

    The first cocker I ever trained got run over like that. My mother had taken the dog in the car to the shops or whatever and was walking up the drive to shut the gate. The dog saw the milkman arrive on the other side of the road and ran to greet him (the milkman was a pal of hers). She would have stopped for me on a sixpence but my mother was a different matter and a car ran her over. I came home from school and my dog was dead. I was 16 and the the dog 2, and it near broke my heart. 

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    There is plenty of good advice  from everyone, i would say it is possibly more advanced or for when ur dog is really pretty good on the lead (long line or doube lead)

     

    Really all u need to do is keep the dog on a lead at all times (apart from play) do plenty of Fo8's, walking boxes, direction changes, altering speeds, plenty of sits, getting them all **** hot and plenty of praise when they are.

    Then ideally bring in a mate with his dog and just repeat the same excercises with his dog getting closer and closer all the time ur dog on the lead so ur in control the whole time.

    Possibly when ur almost there and go go for weeks without a correction might be time to take lead off (althou u usually 1st either wrap it loosely round its neck or drape it down its back) but have long line/2nd lead on, still with ur mate in a controlled space.

    A cever dog will suss it quickly unless u do as david suggests and have it on all the time

     

    It is a very easy and lazy mistake to make taking the lead of too early (and i still do it to this day) another week or 2 would jut have them so much better which makes life a lot easier when working/walking multiple dogs.

     

    Wot lloyd describes and wot david/walker with the long line is more how i'd train/enforce a stop/turn/recall probelm with the dog at distance or moving about in front of u.

     

    The knots are a good idea, plus i have tied ticckky tape/warning tape to the knots as wee flags just to make it easier to see when dog going full pelt. hen i use it with hpr/spaniels often in rougher rashy fields.

    Also don't make the stupid mistake of trying to grab hold of the line when ur pointers going full tilt, surprising the rope burns u can get (that was cheap braided nylon washing line.)

     

    Aye walker i've done the exact same with the fancy plastic coated washing line with my hpr, is very tangle free, also use the same washing line for a deer tracking line too.

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    5 minutes ago, Dougy said:

    Yes nylon rope through your hands

    IS EXTREMELY PAINFUL.

    And also extremely stupid.  

    Definately, still don't know wot the hell i was thinking  😬

    But u'll only do it once

    Edited by scotslad

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    Here's an odd little weird one to throw out there; what ever length lead I put on Soph, be it short, 15 ft or 40 ft as soon as I let it go or with the longer ones as soon as she feels it dragging, she will stop and crouch down, not moving until I pick up the lead. I find the longest cord totally useless and unusable as a training aid. No idea why she does this. Also she is fine with dogs being off their leads but gets very agitated if they are restrained. 

    Edited by getthegat
    Misspelt word

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    45 minutes ago, scotslad said:

    Definately, still don't know wot the hell i was thinking  😬

    But u'll only do it once

    I really gave myself a talking to,, i think it was Arabic or similar. Ice pack and paracetamol, and a sleepless night, i was lucky could have lost a finger, a loop had formed and caught my hand.  

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    Thanks for the tips lads, ( some great tips duly noted)and most of what's been suggested I've been doing since day 1

     

    as said he walks to heel, when I stop walking he sits down, figure of eights / changing direction etc and he's great, I do keep my eye on his behaviour and as has been said  I stop it when I see the signs. I stand in front of him and say "NO" and change direction. He is getting it now and will look at me as if to say" can I go play please dad"

     

    As dougy also said, I say "go play " and off he pops from the heel position, he knows  the score

     

    hes inquisitive and friendly in his nature ( which I don't want to suppress) he knows the score / is highly intelligent and is getting better and rarely does it with me( he knows better) .When  he does it , it is usually with the wife!!!! Lol 

     

    i think he will be a good un when he matures( he is a pointer cross lol lol)

     

    atb

     

    flynny

    Edited by flynny

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