One for the Pilots - LAPL or PPL(M)?

[Doc Holliday]

During my recent annual break I decided to have a go at conquering a long standing issue I've had with flying. I'm not scared of flying, per se, but more a fer of something going wrong during the flight. Daft, I know, but hey-ho! I know flying is statistically safer than driving and I have no real reason for this anxiety other than it's a frame of mind I seem to have created without due cause.

That aside, I decided to grab it by the balls and tackle it head on and went up in a 4 seater Piper Archer II with Mrs H under the most excellent wing (no pun intended) of our pilot, Malcolm. Malcolm is a member of Lydd Aero Club and we had called in the previous month to look in to having a flight experience. Malcolm detailed about how he usually conducts a flight for nervous/anxious fliers and he instilled a great deal of confidence in me, to the point where I felt totally comfortable going up with him. Now, it's important to say that he is not an instructor but is a pilot of a experience. Once up in the air he offered me the controls (after once refusing his offer) and we did a few manoeuvres so I got a better idea of how the plane responds to which actions and controls are applied.

He was very patient and extremely accommodating and, I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. I will be looking to have a few flights with Malcolm so I can get a better understanding of what goes on. I have also looked in to taking it further with the possibility of going for either LAPL(A) or PPL(M) (Flights with Rosie offer this in an Ikarus C42 which is classed as an Ultralight Aircraft but has the look and feel of a Cessna or Piper type aircraft).

I know the LAPL(A) is a stripped down version of the PPL(A) but I am unsure whether the PPL(M) is an even more stripped version of the LAPL(A) or whether it is a good alternative with the possibility of maybe upgrading should one be so inclined? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

You're scared of crashing, a relatively logical state of affairs!

Edited September 25, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE

[Scully]

I’m not sure anyone is afraid of flying, but rather crashing. It’s that knowledge that if something does go wrong, you have to come down. 

🙂

[Ultrastu]

Yes the total lack of control when up in a large airplane can be daunting .

By comparison a small 2 seater feels some how more familiar  (like a car ) and the degree of perceived control comes back .instilling confidence .

Next step is to jump out of said airplane at 12 k feet .and take on some free fall exhilaration. 

 

That way you now have little fear of flying as in your head you have conquered the falling out and coming down bit .

 

Ps yes i have sky dived its awesome. 

 

[samboy]

I have a morbid fascination of watching plane crashes on tv. I will never get on a plane again.

But then again i wont get in the bath if its windy.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Professional help is available, you just need to get sectioned first!

[Eyefor]

To all those with the jitters about flying, can we please clarify one thing - at some stage in the future, at a place and time (currently) unknown, we all will die?

With flying at least you can die with a gin and tonic in your hand? 

[Scully]

7 hours ago, samboy said:

 

But then again i wont get in the bath if its windy.

For fear of capsizing? 

[JohnfromUK]

Flying is OK, but I have a real phobia of airports.  More strictly this is all crowded noisy places with poor signage and complex layouts, although the worry of ending up at the wrong desk/boarding gate/terminal and so missing the flight are probably mainly to blame for an airport being the most 'feared'.  It is worst on the arrival from a flight because the noise and pressure changes from the time in the plane, often coupled with being tired makes my tinitus bad and I struggle to hear any announcements/questions from immigration etc.

[Grandalf]

33 minutes ago, Eyefor said:

With flying at least you can die with a gin and tonic in your hand? 

Friend of mine did that.   You might have met him.   Captain John Smith.

[das]

Seems today that youv'e more chance of dying of boredom stuck in a crowded airport lounge for 5 hours and more than going down with the plane.

[figgy]

Doc Holliday pm Jaymo he’s a flier you might get the answer your looking for. 

[KB1]

10 hours ago, Doc Holliday said:

During my recent annual break I decided to have a go at conquering a long standing issue I've had with flying. I'm not scared of flying, per se, but more a fer of something going wrong during the flight. Daft, I know, but hey-ho! I know flying is statistically safer than driving and I have no real reason for this anxiety other than it's a frame of mind I seem to have created without due cause.

That aside, I decided to grab it by the balls and tackle it head on and went up in a 4 seater Piper Archer II with Mrs H under the most excellent wing (no pun intended) of our pilot, Malcolm. Malcolm is a member of Lydd Aero Club and we had called in the previous month to look in to having a flight experience. Malcolm detailed about how he usually conducts a flight for nervous/anxious fliers and he instilled a great deal of confidence in me, to the point where I felt totally comfortable going up with him. Now, it's important to say that he is not an instructor but is a pilot of a experience. Once up in the air he offered me the controls (after once refusing his offer) and we did a few manoeuvres so I got a better idea of how the plane responds to which actions and controls are applied.

He was very patient and extremely accommodating and, I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. I will be looking to have a few flights with Malcolm so I can get a better understanding of what goes on. I have also looked in to taking it further with the possibility of going for either LAPL(A) or PPL(M) (Flights with Rosie offer this in an Ikarus C42 which is classed as an Ultralight Aircraft but has the look and feel of a Cessna or Piper type aircraft).

I know the LAPL(A) is a stripped down version of the PPL(A) but I am unsure whether the PPL(M) is an even more stripped version of the LAPL(A) or whether it is a good alternative with the possibility of maybe upgrading should one be so inclined? 

All depends on what you envisage flying in the future.  If you fancy something in the Piper range, then PPL is your best bet.

Never really been a fan of the LAPL, as there's already some dodgy PPL holders.....  So something less stringent can only (In my view) produce more unsafe practises.

As I'm sure your friend Malcolm will tell you, flying the plane is the easy part; it's the comprehensive understanding of Navigation, Meteorology, Aviation Law and Technical aspects that make a good pilot.

Go for it, and enjoy.😁

[Jaymo]

1 hour ago, figgy said:

Doc Holliday pm Jaymo he’s a flier you might get the answer your looking for. 

Thanks for the thought Figgy but not flown ‘GA’ ( General Aviation) for 23 years and have not kept abreast of the changes in that sector.

Did chuckle about the dislike of Airports etc- try spending everyday of your working life going through one somewhere in the world and taking in the joys of ‘Security’ checks ...... Anyway, just landed and I’m in a taxi to yet another hotel 

[Grandalf]

10 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Did chuckle about the dislike of Airports etc- try spending everyday of your working life going through one somewhere in the world and taking in the joys of ‘Security’ checks ...... Anyway, just landed and I’m in a taxi to yet another hotel 

Oh how I do not miss my former exotic lifestyle...

Always went to work carrying a suitcase.

Enjoy the sleep Jaymo…   Hope the party in the room next door doesn't keep you awake.   Got to be fresh for the self loading cargo tomorrow.   Keep smiling.   Retirement is worth waiting for.

Oh, and smile at the nice security man who wishes to remove your tooth picks as they could be an offensive weapon.

Take the PPL route Doc and do the job properly.   Enjoy it.

[Jaymo]

6 minutes ago, Grandalf said:

Oh how I do not miss my former exotic lifestyle...

Always went to work carrying a suitcase.

Enjoy the sleep Jaymo…   Hope the party in the room next door doesn't keep you awake.   Got to be fresh for the self loading cargo tomorrow.   Keep smiling.   Retirement is worth waiting for.

Oh, and smile at the nice security man who wishes to remove your tooth picks as they could be an offensive weapon.

Take the PPL route Doc and do the job properly.   Enjoy it.

Ha, rosters are not as they were when you were here.

So party times are much rarer, besides, I learnt many years ago to always ask for a room with a bath and inevitably end up away from the rest of them 🙂

Did Mail you a few months ago,but know your busy with domestic .

If I heard rightly from some of the others, then enjoy the ‘Annual’ outing today 

[Grandalf]

Jaymo,

Was going to Duxford but couldn't due a domestic problem that wasn't a problem.   Carer stuff. 

Sorry for borrowing this topic Doc.

[krugerandsmith]

On 25/09/2018 at 10:57, Doc Holliday said:

During my recent annual break I decided to have a go at conquering a long standing issue I've had with flying. I'm not scared of flying, per se, but more a fer of something going wrong during the flight. Daft, I know, but hey-ho! I know flying is statistically safer than driving and I have no real reason for this anxiety other than it's a frame of mind I seem to have created without due cause.

That aside, I decided to grab it by the balls and tackle it head on and went up in a 4 seater Piper Archer II with Mrs H under the most excellent wing (no pun intended) of our pilot, Malcolm. Malcolm is a member of Lydd Aero Club and we had called in the previous month to look in to having a flight experience. Malcolm detailed about how he usually conducts a flight for nervous/anxious fliers and he instilled a great deal of confidence in me, to the point where I felt totally comfortable going up with him. Now, it's important to say that he is not an instructor but is a pilot of a experience. Once up in the air he offered me the controls (after once refusing his offer) and we did a few manoeuvres so I got a better idea of how the plane responds to which actions and controls are applied.

He was very patient and extremely accommodating and, I have to say, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. I will be looking to have a few flights with Malcolm so I can get a better understanding of what goes on. I have also looked in to taking it further with the possibility of going for either LAPL(A) or PPL(M) (Flights with Rosie offer this in an Ikarus C42 which is classed as an Ultralight Aircraft but has the look and feel of a Cessna or Piper type aircraft).

I know the LAPL(A) is a stripped down version of the PPL(A) but I am unsure whether the PPL(M) is an even more stripped version of the LAPL(A) or whether it is a good alternative with the possibility of maybe upgrading should one be so inclined? 

To conquer you fear of flying sit at the back of the plane comfortable in the knowledge that as far as we know ..... none has ever backed into a mountain.

[MartynGT4]

On 25/09/2018 at 22:01, KB1 said:

All depends on what you envisage flying in the future.  If you fancy something in the Piper range, then PPL is your best bet.

Never really been a fan of the LAPL, as there's already some dodgy PPL holders.....  So something less stringent can only (In my view) produce more unsafe practises.

As I'm sure your friend Malcolm will tell you, flying the plane is the easy part; it's the comprehensive understanding of Navigation, Meteorology, Aviation Law and Technical aspects that make a good pilot.

Go for it, and enjoy.😁

I've been out of GA for a long time but I'd second this advice!

Apart from anything else, the reduced qualifying hours requirement of 30 hours is simply unrealistic and too low to turn out competent and safe pilots. Some aspiring pilots see these figures and say to themselves "Hey, I can afford 30 hours of flight time!" only to be shocked to discover it's not realistic and that they'll probably need a LOT more time in the air to become anywhere near competent and safe! 

My advice would be to go down the PPL route and plan to be spending more time in air than the minimum qualifying hours!

Edited September 27, 2018 by MartynGT4

[Eyefor]

12 minutes ago, MartynGT4 said:

My advice would be to go down the PPL route and plan to be spending more time in air than the minimum qualifying hours!

..and more

Night

Twin

IR

When it was £80/hour for a C150 I still reckon I spent double what I had anticipated.

If flying for fun, stick at PPL. If flying as a means of transporting yourself (and others) then be prepared to pay loads!

[KB1]

10 minutes ago, MartynGT4 said:

I've been out of GA for a long time but I'd second this advice!

Apart from anything else, the reduced qualifying hours requirement of 30 hours is simply unrealistic and too low to turn out competent and safe pilots. Some aspiring pilots see these figures and say to themselves "Hey, I can afford 30 hours of flight time!" only to be shocked to discover it's not realistic and that they'll probably need a LOT more time in the air to become anywhere near competent and safe! 

My advice would be to go down the PPL route and plan to be spending more time in air than the minimum qualifying hours!

Absolutely spot on.... You put it more eloquently than me.

Even in GA you've probably seen a few horror stories.  Way back when, I've lost count of the people who had anything up to a hundred hours flying, and still not passed the test😳  I'll never forget the day when I was out on a jolly with a few from a syndicate in a PA31 Navajo, and I was in the RHS.  The pilot had about 300 hrs more than me at the time, and whilst on a long approach at Teeside Airport he was given the winds, including a cross wind of circa 25-30kn.  I could see the panic starting to show in his face, and when I casually asked him what his prop clearance was on the PA31, he literally started to drip sweat from every pore.......  As there was very little traffic that day, he was given (What would normally be great) a long final approach, and this in fact made matters worse, as he had what seemed like an eternity to ponder his/our fate.  Anyway, long story short, by the time we were approx 10 miles out, he had a total meltdown, and I had to do the dreaded "I Have Control" thing.  Thankfully his common sense prevailed and he didn't offer any resistance.

I don't know what it's like these days, but back when I flew, not many places would rent planes to pilots with minimal hours or those that treat it as a part time hobby.  I could write a book on the ATPL **** that goes on, but I'd probably be given the Skripal treatment😎

[Doc Holliday]

Interesting replies from the experienced pilots. Thank you.

[Andy H]

If at the moment you only want to fly in the UK  have a look at the NPPL  it  can be used with a medical declaration  instead of a full blown Caa medical

[eddoakley]

Reading this with interest as only this afternoon I decided to get myself booked in to start.

Still looking at LAPL but had already kind of decided the PPL would probably be the best route. Advice here confirms my thoughts.

Hopefully this thread will be a long one with advice and updates.

 

Edd

[eddoakley]

Without me speaking to instructors/school can anyone here tell me the process to "upgrade" from LAPL to PPL?

Can I do the first and get more hours in and then upgrade?

Would it be just a case of booking another course (and the relevant medicals/paperwork etc)?

How does the cost differ from doing PPL straight off?

Does anyone here have any experience of learning from Cardiff or anywhere within easy driving distance?

Thanks

 

Edd