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Ok wont disagree on you as the geeses can go were they like but are you saying that GWF  ,15 or whatever number are with you on that area all winter and every year ? or is it a one of and that is why the twichers were out in numbers to see them ? ,if the latter is the case then again were is the problem !!! why does their have to be a BAN or a MORATORIUM if only a few and very infrequently ,, in fact maybe the few in Wales just took a day trip to your ground  !!   It still does not  need a ban on all white fronts  as that is were it will lead if we don't watch out ..

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6 minutes ago, riptide said:

Ok wont disagree on you as the geeses can go were they like but are you saying that GWF  ,15 or whatever number are with you on that area all winter and every year ? or is it a one of and that is why the twichers were out in numbers to see them ? ,if the latter is the case then again were is the problem !!! why does their have to be a BAN or a MORATORIUM if only a few and very infrequently ,, in fact maybe the few in Wales just took a day trip to your ground  !!   It still does not  need a ban on all white fronts  as that is were it will lead if we don't watch out ..

I think you have misunderstood my post As i 100% agree there should NOT be a shooting ban on EWF or infact GWF as most if not all GWF haunts either have a Voluntary Ban by Wildfowling Club or are in fully protected areas. Why should we as Wildfowlers be punished.

A good example is Bean Geese i personally only know of two areas where there is renowned wintering haunts Norfolk and Stirling shire. I know people who think they can in flight tell the difference between a Bean Goose and Pink add to the mix juvenile Whitefront well i certainly can't on the ground through Binoculars i can even between Taiga and Tundra Bean Geese But in flight not a chance. Again we as Wildfowlers suffer a ban with risk of prosecution.

As you possibly know there's been Bean Geese regularly each winter flightine with Pinkfeet for years. Hopp over the channel there are thousands of Bean Geese wintering in France Belgium Germany Norway Finland and Holland where they are legally shot. Why put Egyptian Geese on General license when in allbeit just opinion there are far more feral Barnacle Geese let alone the thousands of Wild migratory ones that visit our shores each winter. 

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1 hour ago, Ayagunner said:

From my area on the eastern side of the wash, would say you have more of a chance shooting a bean goose by accident than getting a EWF, the bean goose seems to be getting a more regular visitor 

Truthfully I'm my opinion a Tundra Bean Goose but if you have sharp ears and eyes unlike a Bean Goose you can pick out Whitefronts with Pinkfeet ( 1 ) a Whitefront call is very distinctive. ( 2 ) look for slightly smaller bird. ( 3 ) Sycal shaped more pointed Wings. Best time to really concentrate your efforts is a period of cold hard weather between last week of December to February 20th they can really be a influx over night and disappear just as quickly

Good luck hope to see/hear you have bagged one

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40 minutes ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Truthfully I'm my opinion a Tundra Bean Goose but if you have sharp ears and eyes unlike a Bean Goose you can pick out Whitefronts with Pinkfeet ( 1 ) a Whitefront call is very distinctive. ( 2 ) look for slightly smaller bird. ( 3 ) Sycal shaped more pointed Wings. Best time to really concentrate your efforts is a period of cold hard weather between last week of December to February 20th they can really be a influx over night and disappear just as quickly

Good luck hope to see/hear you have bagged one

I don't really go after the geese anymore, prefer going after the duck, but if a goose comes along will take my chance, I only shot the 1 pinkfoot last season 6.5 x55SE 

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During the lengthy spell I had working at the top of BASC this whitefront issue had been rumbling on. The antis want to use the 'look-alike' principle - which means if you can't tell the difference between the 2 races of whitefront in flight then best not to shoot any - just in case!

BASC's reasons for being are three-fold:

Something to shoot with

Somewhere to shoot

Something to shoot at

So what is going on: the spread of medical clearance to get a certificate or a renewal. As far as I can tell the loss of pochard in December; a move to protect European whitefronts when there are over 1 million of them on the continent; rumblings about the reduction in the numbers of wigeon (before that is was pintail, mallard and snipe). We can see where this is heading.

BASC won't take the police on over medical issues; won't do anything to acquire land (unless it happens to be deer stalking of course!); and now seem to be prepared to let our quarry list run down. Death by a thousand cuts comes to mind.

So glad Kent left BASC and is putting its £40,000 a year to better use!

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8 hours ago, Ajarrett said:

During the lengthy spell I had working at the top of BASC this whitefront issue had been rumbling on. The antis want to use the 'look-alike' principle - which means if you can't tell the difference between the 2 races of whitefront in flight then best not to shoot any - just in case!

BASC's reasons for being are three-fold:

Something to shoot with

Somewhere to shoot

Something to shoot at

So what is going on: the spread of medical clearance to get a certificate or a renewal. As far as I can tell the loss of pochard in December; a move to protect European whitefronts when there are over 1 million of them on the continent; rumblings about the reduction in the numbers of wigeon (before that is was pintail, mallard and snipe). We can see where this is heading.

BASC won't take the police on over medical issues; won't do anything to acquire land (unless it happens to be deer stalking of course!); and now seem to be prepared to let our quarry list run down. Death by a thousand cuts comes to mind.

So glad Kent left BASC and is putting its £40,000 a year to better use!

Total agree Alan especially Whitefront numbers. As I've posted before Peter Scott claims/claimed GWF and EWF are one of the same one of his explanations I've personally found having been very lucky enough to shoot plenty of both 👍

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Well , Just been on phone to James Green or rather he phoned me , I brought up The GWF  as against the EWF  .Interesting discussion ,along the lines of AEWA  have told UK we are not complying to the agreement ,So Michael Grove ,you all know who he is ? He has recently brought to parliament the NEW WAY FORWARD FOR AGRICULTURE  and the ENVIRONMENT  high on his list is animal welfare ,yes Animal Welfare !! BUT NEVER FORGET HIS DEPARTMENT IN GOVERNMENT  comes under the NAME ,, ""DEFRA """ YES the very same government department that says if you are a MUSLIM you don't have to PRE-STUN a animal you can just cut its throat with a sharp knife and see it struggle to escape with its blood spurting from it for up to 5 mins .. yet I a british citizen would be in court with a possibly prison sentence if I did not pre stun !!!  well just so you know he has now told BASC and I guess the RSPB that he wants to see the GWF protected as he has had his knuckles wrapped by the AEWA  As far as I can see his research is so limited  that he does not understand that ENGLAND is not part of the GWF range  and the AEWA want the GWF protected over its whole range  So why has he said its some action like a Moratorium or a BAN  on all  White Fronts  in england ??? So BASC now between a wall and a hard place so goes along and wants a Moratorium in a few areas of England . So 22 clubs approached  I wont at yet say the out come ,, But coming from Grove  the great protector of animal welfare  it dont look ferckin good !! Oh and one more point don't forget in Holland last year they gassed loads of EWF to control them as they are the most prolific species of goose ,, Once again nothing to do with trying to save the GWF just political hoop jumping at its worst ! 

 

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Just looked up WLC mins available to you on BASC web site ! 

13. Moratorium on Greenland White Fronted Geese

  • AEWA requires that GWfG are protected from overwinter mortality.
  • We believe that the voluntary moratorium in Wales, and the limited numbers actually present in England satisfies the AEWA requirements.
  • However, AEWA has received a complaint that this protection is not enough and have now launched an Implementation Review Process (IRP) – basically a disciplinary action against the UK government.
  • Defra have approached us and asked if we would support a voluntary moratorium on the shooting of GWfG in England. This is in recognition of the success of the voluntary moratorium in Wales.
  • The WLC supports an England-wide voluntary moratorium on the shooting of GWfG, provided it doesn’t impact the shooting of European white-fronted geese.
  • Given the slight overlap in potential range of the two races a moratorium may have to cover an area extending north from the Morecambe Bay estuary, north east to the Tees estuary. This could impact on shooting around Morecombe Bay and the WLC agreed discussions should be had with the Lancashire Forum before an agreement is reached.

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

These are Questions that needed asking  .Note above reads any moratorium is only for GWF .

Who was complaint from ?

What scientific information did the complainant have ? 

Did they present this evidence to  the AEWA  ? 

If So were can we see it ?

Did DEFRA object and Tell the AEWA that GWF are protected across their range ?

Did DEFRA tell the  AEWA  that no GWF had been taken as quarry in England  ?

Did DEFRA look at all available research  / surveys /currant figures / last years counts ?

If Not Why Not ? And on what basis and scientific footing  did DEFRA  approach BASC ?

And did DEFRA make it clear that if we did not accept a moratorium then they DEFRA would put a ban in place on shooting GWF in England ?

Also Note the WLC only accepted a  voluntary moratorium on GWF across England ..

And only discussions  should be had with the  Lancashire Forum before an agreement is reached. , not just a choice,,, Moratorium or  Ban !!!

 

 

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