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Interesting interview with a firearms licensing manager


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I came across this interview on clay-shooting.com with Mike Cox, the firearms licensing manager at Avon & Somerset police. Thought it might be worth sharing here:

http://www.clay-shooting.com/features/interview-police-shotgun-licensing-manager-mike-cox/

I searched to see if it had been previously posted but couldn't find it, apologies if it has been shared previously. Mods please delete if this is a duplicated thread.

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11 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Good reason, " I want to go clay shooting" that should cover it.

:lol:

14 minutes ago, Scully said:

‘Good reason’ for a SGC? Interesting to know we’re ‘monitored 24/7  365 days a year.’ I don’t see how that could possibly happen, but there you go. 

They could send a Terminator back from the year 2230 to follow you everywhere Scully. Do you think the budget would cover that? :lol:

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Has to be said coming up with a good reason isn't difficult, occasional clay shooting, occasional game shooting etc. all tick the box. The question is being asked round here under Police Scotland and as it's the local police who do rural home visits, rather than specific firearms officers, it's wise not to be too shirty about "our rights" . The question, "why do you still need/want a shot gun?" is a fair one for a local bobby to ask, IMO.

The good reason criteria for section 1 grant/renewal is a completely different beast and shouldn't be confused with being asked why you want a shot gun at grant or renewal. 

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39 minutes ago, Uilleachan said:

Has to be said coming up with a good reason isn't difficult, occasional clay shooting, occasional game shooting etc. all tick the box. The question is being asked round here under Police Scotland and as it's the local police who do rural home visits, rather than specific firearms officers, it's wise not to be too shirty about "our rights" . The question, "why do you still need/want a shot gun?" is a fair one for a local bobby to ask, IMO.

The good reason criteria for section 1 grant/renewal is a completely different beast and shouldn't be confused with being asked why you want a shot gun at grant or renewal. 

Yes, I’d agree, the question ‘ why do you want a shotgun’ is a reasonable one, but when people state specifics as ‘good reason’, then it is open to setting a precedent where there isn’t one, in regards to S1. If the stated ‘good reason’ becomes the precedent then we may find ourselves at a stage where we need to state ‘good reason’ for each shotgun owned, and that requires a variation each time we wish to purchase as in S1. 

The ‘good reason’ for shotguns has already been mooted by ACPO, unless I’m mistaken. The distinction needs to be kept separate. 

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1 hour ago, Scully said:

Yes, I’d agree, the question ‘ why do you want a shotgun’ is a reasonable one, but when people state specifics as ‘good reason’, then it is open to setting a precedent where there isn’t one, in regards to S1. If the stated ‘good reason’ becomes the precedent then we may find ourselves at a stage where we need to state ‘good reason’ for each shotgun owned, and that requires a variation each time we wish to purchase as in S1. 

The ‘good reason’ for shotguns has already been mooted by ACPO, unless I’m mistaken. The distinction needs to be kept separate. 

...... and thats the point where you politely agree to disagree, wait for them to leave, and then call your lawyer to have them write to the chief constable on your behalf, politely expressing your dismay that sec. 1 criteria is being applied to your sec. 2 renewal that has no basis in law. 

Round here it's the local bobbies that do the leg work, we have officers that grew up on working estates and officers for whom fire arms are an anathema, plus many in between, sometimes the criteria for sec 1 & 2 can become blurred in the eyes of the inexperienced. IME, best just to humour them be polite and leave any wheat and chaff separation to the professionals processing the paper work and issuing the certs. 

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2 hours ago, Uilleachan said:

...... and thats the point where you politely agree to disagree, wait for them to leave, and then call your lawyer to have them write to the chief constable on your behalf, politely expressing your dismay that sec. 1 criteria is being applied to your sec. 2 renewal that has no basis in law. 

Round here it's the local bobbies that do the leg work, we have officers that grew up on working estates and officers for whom fire arms are an anathema, plus many in between, sometimes the criteria for sec 1 & 2 can become blurred in the eyes of the inexperienced. IME, best just to humour them be polite and leave any wheat and chaff separation to the professionals processing the paper work and issuing the certs. 

Most of the FEO's around here are on the ball as many are shooting blokes themselves, so thankfully ( touch wood ) it isn't an issue.

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3 hours ago, grahamch said:

There is no legal basis far a good reason. Under uk law your are entitled to hold an sgc unless the police can show otherwise

Not quite.

28Special provisions about shot gun certificates.

[F138(1)Subject to subsection (1A) below, a shot gun certificate shall be granted or, as the case may be, renewed by the chief officer of police if he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to possess a shot gun without danger to the public safety or to the peace.

(1A)No such certificate shall be granted or renewed if the chief officer of police—

(a)has reason to believe that the applicant is prohibited by this Act from possessing a shot gun; or

(b)is satisfied that the applicant does not have a good reason for possessing, purchasing or acquiring one.

(1B)For the purposes of paragraph (b) of subsection (1A) above an applicant shall, in particular, be regarded as having a good reason if the gun is intended to be used for sporting or competition purposes or for shooting vermin; and an application shall not be refused by virtue of that paragraph merely because the applicant intends neither to use the gun himself nor to lend it for anyone else to use.]

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The legislation is there.  It is the decision of the Chief Constable. If it suits you get a solicitor, engage BASC or other organisation, appeal it to the courts. Personally I would just be a reasonable person, and if asked answer the question honestly. After that just wait for the SGC to drop through the letterbox.

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17 hours ago, CharlieT said:

Not quite.

28Special provisions about shot gun certificates.

[F138(1)Subject to subsection (1A) below, a shot gun certificate shall be granted or, as the case may be, renewed by the chief officer of police if he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to possess a shot gun without danger to the public safety or to the peace.

(1A)No such certificate shall be granted or renewed if the chief officer of police—

(a)has reason to believe that the applicant is prohibited by this Act from possessing a shot gun; or

(b)is satisfied that the applicant does not have a good reason for possessing, purchasing or acquiring one.

(1B)For the purposes of paragraph (b) of subsection (1A) above an applicant shall, in particular, be regarded as having a good reason if the gun is intended to be used for sporting or competition purposes or for shooting vermin; and an application shall not be refused by virtue of that paragraph merely because the applicant intends neither to use the gun himself nor to lend it for anyone else to use.]

The second part of the paragraph bellow the highlighted one seems to contradict.

 

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